Double rifles and Elephant

[Woodcarver]

LOL VertigoBE, certainly not my intention to captivate, if degoins or Woodcarver wants to post up some pics I'll surely dig those two outta the safe for photos, the 577 is like a brand new sledge hammer with a black hickory handle, just a plain dark beast, the H&H is the honey colored beauty.

If you'll get some pics to me, I'd be more than happy to post them for you and satisfy all of us looking for some more gun porn, lol.
Looking forward to the report on what sounds like will be an excellent adventure!

 

[50Gunner]

Holy smokes Woodcarver, how time flies this time of year, I'll pull those two doubles out of the safe and send a couple pics later today, it's 12 degrees here now with a 15-18 mph winds out of the N/NW, Brrrrr ; ]

Many thanks for the offer good Sir.

 

[AZDAVE]

As I said earlier I would take the 577.

I will give you a second recommendation, Take the H&H and channel your iner Teddy R. and shoot your elephant this year. Come home sell the H&H and take the 577 on a ele hunt in 2027 and another in 2028 with the proceeds of selling the H&H..

 

[bimbo]

Historically talking,a 577 did can bring out of order two professional black gunbeerer!

 

[SStomcat]

I would take the 577 and do all the physical preparation to be able to carry it for the duration of your hunt.

Sounds ideal—if you can pull it off. But let’s be honest, you need to be in absolutely top physical shape to track an elephant. I haven’t hunted elephant yet, but I’ve had plenty of long conversations with a friend who’s taken 50+ elephants and dozens of buffalo. Anyone around Houston who frequents Gordy’s may know exactly who I’m talking about—he’s there often, apparently just for fun.
I’ve also discussed this with a couple of very well-known PHs over multiple sessions, and the consensus is fairly unanimous: an elephant can casually knock out 20+ miles a day, at a pace that makes a two-legged creature question life choices. Now multiply that by 10 days, with 10–20 miles of walking each day, and your knees may go through the endurance test of life. A lighter, more agile rifle in these situations can make a helluva difference IMO, of course.

 

[AZDAVE]

No doubt on the physical preparation required to hunt elephant and Buff. I have hunted two elephants and walked alot of miles. In my late 60's I have to work harder to stay in shape to do the tracking hunts. And also realize that I will never be in Ironman Triathlon shape I was able to race at in my 20-early 40's. Last year I took my 500/416 double on my PH's request as he has seen me shoot it and he wasn't on board with me bringing my 577 NE single shot due to second shot taking longer. His advice paid off as my second shot made the tracking job 2 ft vs 200 yards. along with my wifes shot from her 375 hitting less than 2 in from mine through the heart.

If a person can get into the shape to walk the miles carrying a 577 then I say go for it, but that number of people is a small percentage of DG hunters.

You have to be honest with yourself and the PH to confirm your physicality and shooting ability yes or no and take the appropriate rifle.

 

[SStomcat]

No doubt on the physical preparation required to hunt elephant and Buff. I have hunted two elephants and walked alot of miles. In my late 60's I have to work harder to stay in shape to do the tracking hunts. And also realize that I will never be in Ironman Triathlon shape I was able to race at in my 20-early 40's. Last year I took my 500/416 double on my PH's request as he has seen me shoot it and he wasn't on board with me bringing my 577 NE single shot due to second shot taking longer. His advice paid off as my second shot made the tracking job 2 ft vs 200 yards. along with my wifes shot from her 375 hitting less than 2 in from mine through the heart.

If a person can get into the shape to walk the miles carrying a 577 then I say go for it, but that number of people is a small percentage of DG hunters.

You have to be honest with yourself and the PH to confirm your physicality and shooting ability yes or no and take the appropriate rifle.

words of wisdom.

 

[Tanks]

If a person can get into the shape to walk the miles carrying a 577 then I say go for it, but that number of people is a small percentage of DG hunters.

As I have mentioned in the past when we have these discussions my limit in large calibers is ,500 NE, not because of recoil, but because of weight. Not to mention, I am almost as much of a virtuoso with it as @Ontario Hunter is with all firearms, real or imagined.

 

[SStomcat]

I chose the 470 for a reason; I'm not a virtuoso with any of the firearms I have.

 

[Houston Bill]

Houston Bill, I think what finally made up my mind was you CANNOT impress an Elephant, regardless of what you hit him with, we all know even a solid to the brain from Bells 6.5 and 7x57mm's got a lot done, even a 320gr Woodleigh solid on frontal brain from my 9.3x62mm at 2400 fps would be exceedingly lethal where legal, that bullet penetrates for days here on home testing media.

Frontal or side brain shot Elephant with good solids and it's a done deal, the .458 cal. 450gr Northfork flat nosed solids departing at 2225 fps leave me without a doubt on the outcome.

I have however noticed you can indeed impress a Cape buffalo, the 577 has shown me a markedly noticeable difference in striking power over any other weapon I've used, even the mighty 505 Gibbs with 600gr cup nosed solids didn't rock the buffalo like the 577 did, others may have differing results, simply stating what I have seen off the ends of my rifles.

Could hunt Buffalo and Warthogs everyday I have left with doubles till little Wife orders a backhoe and flowers to plant my butt in the clay, I love it.

I remember earlier in this thread something about being over gunned, looking back, the 375 H&H is the smallest bore rifle I've ever brought on Safari, it along with the 400 H&H and 458 WM make great scope sighted light to heavy plains game and Leopard guns, perfect pairings to heavy doubles.

Only five Safaris from 2015 to 2022, man it's time to go back.

@50Gunner - as others have said, you can't go wrong with either rifle. I wish you all the best on your hunt. Just make sure you can carry the extra 3 lbs of the 577 on those sometimes long stalks after elephant or buffalo.....or have agreement that one of the trackers will carry it for you from time to time.

For me, the nostalgia of the H&H 500/450 would win out even though the 577 will clearly will provide a much bigger "thump" to your buffalo.

 

[Woodcarver]

Here's some of that gun porn from @50Gunner as requested....
577 is on the left

Frame by frame of video shooting 500-450 at rock on the far side of pond with 450gr NF flat nose solid, 2220fps, at 88 yards. Rested off old tractor hood (better than sticks, lol). Couldn't get the video to load.

Last pick, the rifle is just being raised, not from recoil, but dust cloud from rock still rising. Rise from recoil can be seen between pic 1 and 2. Pic 3, back on target.
The rock being shot across pond. Can see the impact mark on pond side.

 

[Woodcarver]

Beautiful rifles. I'd like to shoot that 500-450 someday!

 

[mms45]

I am so jealous of that h&h some day I’ll have one

 

[275r7x57]

You can’t go wrong with the Holland 500-450 after all Teddy Roosevelt had one.

Describing an elephant hunt, he wrote: "As I aimed at his head, he started to move off; the first bullet from the heavy Holland brought him to his knees. And as he rose, I knocked him flat with the second". Teddy Roosevelt

 

[275r7x57]

As I have mentioned in the past when we have these discussions my limit in large calibers is ,500 NE, not because of recoil, but because of weight. Not to mention, I am almost as much of a virtuoso with it as @Ontario Hunter is with all firearms, real or imagined.

Anything past 500, a gun bearer comes to mind. Or maybe two.

 

[50Gunner]

LOL AZDAVE, that's very funny, makes perfect sense nonetheless, but alas, that Holland will most likely land in an auction house after little Wife orders a backhoe and flowers to plant my butt in the clay.

SStomcat, I carried that 577 for an average of 11 miles a day back in 2020 on a Tanzanian safari, The M'barangandu Reserve was very strenuous, just turned 63 a few days ago, so yes, if a man lights the fires under an Ele hunt, he best be in shape to hang till the fire goes out.

Houston Bill, you have a definite point, I noticed photoing those two rifles yesterday how much deeper the 577 sank in the pine needles at the base of the tree, I would sink that much deeper with every step in the river sands carrying it, the 577 will be relegated to pure Buffalo rifle duty from here on out, as well as dry land hippo.

 

[50Gunner]

Woodcarver, many thanks again for posting the pics kind Sir, you also have a very sharp eye, I do indeed bring any rifle immediately back on target after the first round is fired in case another shot is needed, hardwired into binaries here, shoot, back on target, access, take rifle out of battery, GTG.

That giant chunk knocked out of the top right corner of that rock was from a 750gr Barnes banded solid landing when i was practicing with it shooting solids in both barrels, man rocks chunks and debris rained back down on that pond for what seemed like 10 seconds, some landed back towards me near the closer bank at the edge of the field.

Never shot my doubles that far until I heard the gut wrenching story of a client and PH both with heavy doubles helplessly watching a WELL over 50 inch buffalo meandering down a dry river bed 100 yards away to turn and forever vanish in the river reeds, he told me they nearly got physically ill, I'll do my dead level best to make sure I don't have to live that nightmare.

An 11 inch rock at 88 yards has buffalo butt or last rib going in written all over it, Eland or any of the heavier plains game as well, I have no doubt with any 450gr NF, 570gr or 750gr Barnes banded flat nosed solids going in more than enough to slow up a buffalo to quickly hurry over and get it settled.

Just don't want to lose out on the chance at a trophy bull of five lifetimes.

Of the 577 bullets pictured, one TSX was from broadside double shoulder hit on dry land Hippo bull, he dropped stone dead and never moved again, a huge double fisted knot was visible on his off shoulder, nearly exited, the other TSX was handed to me by the skinners in the river bed from under the hide of a buffalo's right shoulder after going in at left side last rib.

The solid lying down is the one that caused a flash of light at the shot on this buffalo paying the insurance, after the shot I immediately began to turn left to make sure his old buffalo buddies were still stampeding down the river while reloading my rifle, the flash came from that solid going through both shoulders of the downed buffalo, it buried itself in the river, turned then surfaced in the three inches of water, coolest thing I had ever saw, all but the base of the bullet is completely sandblasted.

The solid sitting on it's butt with the bent nose is from squatting down paying the insurance on the Hippo bull, put it right in the triangle at 5 yards, the bullet took out two feet of spine and was found in the guts, had to be near 8 feet of penetration.

I asked myself a hundred times on that hunt, where in hell are people getting the info that says a 577 wont penetrate?

 

[AZDAVE]

No matter which one you take I am looking forward to reading your hunt report.

 

[steve white]

Woodcarver, many thanks again for posting the pics kind Sir, you also have a very sharp eye, I do indeed bring any rifle immediately back on target after the first round is fired in case another shot is needed, hardwired into binaries here, shoot, back on target, access, take rifle out of battery, GTG.

That giant chunk knocked out of the top right corner of that rock was from a 750gr Barnes banded solid landing when i was practicing with it shooting solids in both barrels, man rocks chunks and debris rained back down on that pond for what seemed like 10 seconds, some landed back towards me near the closer bank at the edge of the field.

Never shot my doubles that far until I heard the gut wrenching story of a client and PH both with heavy doubles helplessly watching a WELL over 50 inch buffalo meandering down a dry river bed 100 yards away to turn and forever vanish in the river reeds, he told me they nearly got physically ill, I'll do my dead level best to make sure I don't have to live that nightmare.

An 11 inch rock at 88 yards has buffalo butt or last rib going in written all over it, Eland or any of the heavier plains game as well, I have no doubt with any 450gr NF, 570gr or 750gr Barnes banded flat nosed solids going in more than enough to slow up a buffalo to quickly hurry over and get it settled.

Just don't want to lose out on the chance at a trophy bull of five lifetimes.

Of the 577 bullets pictured, one TSX was from broadside double shoulder hit on dry land Hippo bull, he dropped stone dead and never moved again, a huge double fisted knot was visible on his off shoulder, nearly exited, the other TSX was handed to me by the skinners in the river bed from under the hide of a buffalo's right shoulder after going in at left side last rib.

The solid lying down is the one that caused a flash of light at the shot on this buffalo paying the insurance, after the shot I immediately began to turn left to make sure his old buffalo buddies were still stampeding down the river while reloading my rifle, the flash came from that solid going through both shoulders of the downed buffalo, it buried itself in the river, turned then surfaced in the three inches of water, coolest thing I had ever saw, all but the base of the bullet is completely sandblasted.

The solid sitting on it's butt with the bent nose is from squatting down paying the insurance on the Hippo bull, put it right in the triangle at 5 yards, the bullet took out two feet of spine and was found in the guts, had to be near 8 feet of penetration.

I asked myself a hundred times on that hunt, where in hell are people getting the info that says a 577 wont penetrate?

The only maybe 50 inch buffalo I have ever seen came out of the smoke at the very edge of a grass fire which our own trackers had earlier lit. He came out and disappeared back into the smoke in one fluid movement. Probably walked along just ahead of the fire, hidden by the smoke until giving us the slip in some other well-rehearsed way. If I hadn't been looking, it would have been as if he never existed.
It was very obviously not his first rodeo. This was near the Kilombero river about 23 yrs ago. It is simultaneously a privilege and a sickening feeling to experience such a fleeting glimpse.

 

[IvW]

Go with the H&H but use 500 grn...
577 lacks penetration.....
Alternatively sell both buy a 500 NE and hunt more elephant.....