Double barrel shot gun choices

Dad had a cheap SXS when I was a kid, a cheap Spanish import, pistol grip double triggers 20 guage. I shot a pile of pheasants and quail with that gun. He shot a lot of skeet with that gun and eventually shot it loose. Didn't hold up like a higher dollar gun would have.

One of these days I'll have a quality SXS, but have decided not to buy a cheap one just to have one.
 
I prefer ‘vintage’ shotguns. IMO, they offer better workmanship than modern machine - made shotguns. You can buy a well-made English or Scottish shotgun (boxlock ejector) in your price range. I recently bought a fine London made 20 gauge SxS from the Boss shop for just $2500.

It’s worth it to shop vintage Brit, European, and American made guns.
 
Brno sxs fixed chokes 1/2 and 3/4 best African field gun availible.....
 
A British Boxlock Ejector 12-bore with 2.5" chambers is the standard. It shoots exactly the same shot charge as a 3" 20 bore. It weighs less. You can find many options for <$3000. They go up in value. A $3000 vintage British 12-bore would cost you $60,000 to have made new today.

You can also go with a British 20 bore, but shells are hard to find in that gauge in 2.5" and you'll pay $6500. (gauge goes up, price goes way up)
 
A British Boxlock Ejector 12-bore with 2.5" chambers is the standard. It shoots exactly the same shot charge as a 3" 20 bore. It weighs less. You can find many options for <$3000. They go up in value. A $3000 vintage British 12-bore would cost you $60,000 to have made new today.

You can also go with a British 20 bore, but shells are hard to find in that gauge in 2.5" and you'll pay $6500. (gauge goes up, price goes way up)
The OP was specifically asking about a 20 bore quail gun. Not specifically a SxS, but he'd like to get more into them. I understand your thinking, but there could be other problems in play.

On many hunts if you show up with a 12 bore for quail, you will be given "a look" for not having the "appropriate" upland gun for the quarry being hunted. And on some of those hunts they actually require a sub-bore shotgun, not allowing anything larger than a 20. In truth, some places really want you shooting a 28 bore to be a proper sporting gentleman.

@Travis2282 - After talking to the owner of CSMS at the SCI show and seeing the extensive collection of 20 bore (used and still in excellent condition) shotguns, I'd not hesitate to give him a visit. I'd be surprised if you didn't place one on order AND walk out with a used one as well.
 
If your desire is a modern 20ga w/ choke tubes under 3k, suggest a hard look at FAIR's Iside lineup. Italian made, can be custom specced if you don't mind a bit of a wait.
This is what I decided on. Living in California, I needed a modern gun with barrels proofed for steel and the Iside fit the bill.

I ended up getting one in the EM grade and special ordered it with double triggers. It’s a fantastic gun. Mine is a 12 bore.

CA512465-FE7D-47A0-8CF7-43D360468121.jpeg
 
The OP was specifically asking about a 20 bore quail gun. Not specifically a SxS, but he'd like to get more into them. I understand your thinking, but there could be other problems in play.

On many hunts if you show up with a 12 bore for quail, you will be given "a look" for not having the "appropriate" upland gun for the quarry being hunted. And on some of those hunts they actually require a sub-bore shotgun, not allowing anything larger than a 20. In truth, some places really want you shooting a 28 bore to be a proper sporting gentleman.

@Travis2282 - After talking to the owner of CSMS at the SCI show and seeing the extensive collection of 20 bore (used and still in excellent condition) shotguns, I'd not hesitate to give him a visit. I'd be surprised if you didn't place one on order AND walk out with a used one as well.

I've met these pompous rednecks. They are shooting 1-1/8 ounce 20 bore loads in guns that weigh 7.5lbs and taking issue with an English 2.5" or 2" best gun shooting a 3/4 ounce load. That's only because they are ignorant and because they don't understand what they are looking at. I've rarely seen a rigid rule on this topic, only a guideline by the ill informed. Once I inform them, they usually sheepishly admit their gun is packing more wallop than mine, weighs more, and if anyone is "cheating" it is them since they are using a shell that is way over the power that created "the spirit of the rule".

But anyway, you definitely can get a nice 20 bore. About the nicest/cheapest 20 bore I can think of is a beretta manufactured Orvis Uplander 20 gauge O/U with an english grip stock. Those go for $3000-$4000 used and they are about the only 20 gauge O/U that doesn't weigh too much. Next gun in their weight class as an O/U 20 bore is going to be in that $30,000 range or more, used, of a modern British design ala Woodward styled.

If we're talking side by sides, you can absolutely get a spritely used boxlock non-ejector Birmingham gun in 20 gauge (or smaller) that is lovely, but you just can't get that gun used for $3000 and right now English 2.5" 20 bore shells are hard to come across compared to 12 bore.

I like high grade quality guns and best guns. With frugality, anyone on this forum can have the luxury experience, but you have to make tradeoffs. 96% of all English shotguns (where the quality-price ratio is optimal) were 12 bore guns. The remaining 4% were all the others, of which 10 bore was easily 1%, 16 bore were 1%, and 20 bore were 1%. Every other gauge from 2-4-8-14-24-28-32-.410-9mm make up that last 1%. (many of you may be unaware half those gauges even exist)

So for quail, for the money, for the weight, and to own something that would be $50,000 to have made new today, I'd suggest a between-the-wars E.J. Churchill XXV ejector 12-bore that weighs 5-3/4 pounds and has 2.5" chambers. Cost is $3000ish. To change only to a 20 bore for the same gun, you're paying $6000-$8000. To make it a 28 bore, you're paying $12,000-$18,000.

Whenever I show people a variety of shotguns we have at the house, they never ooh and ah over the $14,000 MSRP Spanish piece of crap, nor the Orvis Berettas, nor any of the other items in the roster, they always ooh and ahh over relatively low cost British Boxlock Ejectors. The quality is that high, the resale versus MSRP is that low, and they weigh nothing.

OP, if you want a true quail gun and you're flexible on your budget, I have a circa 1950 baby frame, near new, O/U 28 bore ejector that weighs 5.5lbs and has its case and accessories. But that's a $6500 gun wholesale, the least I'd take for it. (Only selling because its nearly 2" too short for my giant stature.)

Gauge gets smaller, price doubles each gauge step. :(
 
The “look” from an improper gun really depends on the place. At Woodmont in Maryland steel shot is required as is a break-open gun.
12 gauge guns are standard.
At the Oakwoods Club in SC about 30-40 years ago one of the filthy rich new members showed up with a new Winchester 23 in 20 gauge. He quickly got rid of it and got a 16 gauge Winchester 21 like the other members.

Because England is going to steel shot they are doing a lot of testing on vintage guns. Apparently any nitro proofed gun is good for standard cartridges up to size 4 shot but not high performance cartridges with larger shot.
 
The OP was specifically asking about a 20 bore quail gun. Not specifically a SxS, but he'd like to get more into them. I understand your thinking, but there could be other problems in play.

On many hunts if you show up with a 12 bore for quail, you will be given "a look" for not having the "appropriate" upland gun for the quarry being hunted. And on some of those hunts they actually require a sub-bore shotgun, not allowing anything larger than a 20. In truth, some places really want you shooting a 28 bore to be a proper sporting gentleman.

@Travis2282 - After talking to the owner of CSMS at the SCI show and seeing the extensive collection of 20 bore (used and still in excellent condition) shotguns, I'd not hesitate to give him a visit. I'd be surprised if you didn't place one on order AND walk out with a used one as well.

That is a huge pet peeve of mine and IMO shows an extreme lack of understanding of shotguns on the part of those looking down their noses at these classic guns. This is not aimed at you but at the masses of US shotgunners who do not have an adequate understanding of shotgun development and history. To say that the Brits are amused by the American fascination with sub bores is an understatement. The traditional way to approach lighter game is with a more lightly constructed 12 gauge with shorter chambers and a lighter shot charge. To look down your nose at a 2 1/2” 12 weighing 5 3/4 pounds, throwing a 3/4 oz shot charge while carrying a 28 is really quite something. My grouse and woodcock gun when I lived in New Brunswick was an O frame greener with 2 1/2” chambers weighing 5 3/4 pounds. You’d have to be carrying a pretty nice 28 to out class that gun.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve got a matched pair of .410 and 28 sporting guns that I quite enjoy. But to think that they are more appropriate in the quail woods than a 2 1/2” 12 ga is IMO very, very wrong.

As a technical aside, a 3/4 oz shot charge is going to pattern much more consistently out of a 12 rather than a 28.
 
@rookhawk and @WAB - trust me I get it and I’m on your side here. I only say it because I know this happens and some people aren’t willing to conduct a training lesson to an otherwise ignorant host for the fear of repercussions.

Trust me, I wouldn’t have a problem setting the record straight, repercussions be dammed. Some folks would rather just show up with a 20 or 28 bore.
 
@rookhawk and @WAB - trust me I get it and I’m on your side here. I only say it because I know this happens and some people aren’t willing to conduct a training lesson to an otherwise ignorant host for the fear of repercussions.

Trust me, I wouldn’t have a problem setting the record straight, repercussions be dammed. Some folks would rather just show up with a 20 or 28 bore.

I had a fellow chastise me for this very thing. I brought a Joseph Lang best 10 bore, 2-9/16" chambered, paper cartridge, side by side fowling gun shooting 1-1/4 ounce of bismuth to a seaduck and goose shoot. He was shooting 1-5/8 ounce 3" 12 bore bismuth out of a sh&tty beretta autoloader with three shells in it arguing that my gun was inappropriately overpowered for the spirit of the shoot.

I don't mind being chastised, but I do light people up when they do so and they're factually wrong rather than wrong by their opinion. (everyone can have their own opinions, but not their own facts)
 
I own just a few Brit SxS shotguns… a 1930 Henry Atkin self-opening SLE in 2-1/2” 12 bore, a Jos. Harkom lightweight BLE in 2-1/2” 16 bore and a recently purchased 1934 Robertson 2-1/2” 20 bore BLE (finished and stocked in the Boss shop). This last gun was bought from a UK dealer for just $2500 USD. Westley Richards has a very similar Robertson 20 for sale on their website for $10K.

if one is discerning and patient very good guns can be bought for not too much money.
 
I own just a few Brit SxS shotguns… a 1930 Henry Atkin self-opening SLE in 2-1/2” 12 bore, a Jos. Harkom lightweight BLE in 2-1/2” 16 bore and a recently purchased 1934 Robertson 2-1/2” 20 bore BLE (finished and stocked in the Boss shop). This last gun was bought from a UK dealer for just $2500 USD. Westley Richards has a very similar Robertson 20 for sale on their website for $10K.

if one is discerning and patient very good guns can be bought for not too much money.

I’m available for adoption… just thought I’d throw that out there…
 
WAB… I think I’m too old to undertake additional responsibilities, but thanks.
 
OP asked specifically about SxS... but.. if you are willing to go O/U.. there is no better bargain in the world (IMO) than the Webley and Scott 900 series shotgun...

We've got both a 20 ga and a 12 Ga in the safe with 28" bbls.. all the niceties of a classic british design.. but very affordable (they originally retailed in the US for between $1150 - $1500 depending on which version you wanted).. when you can find one (they are hard to find.. im unaware of anyone importing them anymore) you can typically score a used one in good condition for between $700-$1000)...

Excellent balance.. incredible swing.. pretty walnut for the price point.. and absolutely reliable (we've got roughly 5000 shells through the 20 ga at this point without a single bobble of any kind.. it gets used regularly at trap, skeet, and sporting clays shoots by our youngest daughter)..

Webley was smart with the 900.. designed in the UK.. they offer a no frills version called the "black" model... its manufactured at a facility in Turkey under Webleys supervision..

I'd pit the 900 against any beretta, franchi, rizzini, etc that runs in the $2200-$3K range for fit, finish, quality of manufacture, etc..

And they come with nice, classic cases as well...

1678291161234.png
 
OP asked specifically about SxS... but.. if you are willing to go O/U.. there is no better bargain in the world (IMO) than the Webley and Scott 900 series shotgun...

We've got both a 20 ga and a 12 Ga in the safe with 28" bbls.. all the niceties of a classic british design.. but very affordable (they originally retailed in the US for between $1150 - $1500 depending on which version you wanted).. when you can find one (they are hard to find.. im unaware of anyone importing them anymore) you can typically score a used one in good condition for between $700-$1000)...

Excellent balance.. incredible swing.. pretty walnut for the price point.. and absolutely reliable (we've got roughly 5000 shells through the 20 ga at this point without a single bobble of any kind.. it gets used regularly at trap, skeet, and sporting clays shoots by our youngest daughter)..

Webley was smart with the 900.. designed in the UK.. they offer a no frills version called the "black" model... its manufactured at a facility in Turkey under Webleys supervision..

I'd pit the 900 against any beretta, franchi, rizzini, etc that runs in the $2200-$3K range for fit, finish, quality of manufacture, etc..

And they come with nice, classic cases as well...

View attachment 521696


The British made 600 (is that the right model?) from the 60s-80s is a great value gun too. That model is the side by side model. The 28 gauge model is quite sought after.
 
I havent handled any W&S SxS guns.. but would love to give one a try...

We bought the first O/U on a bit of a whim.. Cabelas had one in perfect / new condition.. but the handle on the case had a pin missing on it.. Some yahoo at the store inserted a small machine screw to replace the pin and hold the handle in place and got caught by another buyer (that ultimately didnt buy)... They had the gun retailing for $1150... they sold it to me for $850 out the door as "damaged"... I promptly pulled the screw out, peened in a small brass pin.. and the case has been perfect ever since..

Once we took it to the range we knew what we had and realized just what a bargain we had fallen into.. So I set out to find one in 12GA..

It took a while to find one.. but I finally got lucky and found one that had barely been shot.. the owner still had all of the original paperwork.. and the case was still in great shape.. $750 later we had a matching set of guns in 20 and 12..
 

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Cwoody wrote on Woodcarver's profile.
Shot me email if Beretta 28 ga DU is available
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Enjoyed reading your post again. Believe this is the 3rd time. I am scheduled to hunt w/ Legadema in Sep. Really looking forward to it.
check out our Buff hunt deal!
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I would be interested in it if you pass. Please send me the info on the gun shop if you do not buy it. I have the needed ammo and brass.
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