Did Rookhawk steer a fellow right?

[coreydb]

These non-mainstream, non CRF rifles in DG calibers; like my Rem 700 416 Rem Mag modified, while I built it for me because of $$$ shortage, these rifles should have stamped on the barrels "NOT FOR RESALE"

 

[skydiver386]

I think you put him on the right path.

Those rifles, and many other firearms are what we call BBQ Guns, to be fired by friends and neighbors at an outdoor BBQ.

S&W M29 44mags, Desert Eagles, etc., are purchased, fired very little, then when the owner decides he'd rather have a new Harley, he want's top dollar for it.

I don't think the 460 is as bad as some make it out to be, but the rifles themselves were not suited for it. Far to light for the caliber, thin wrist that would crack if the muzzle brake were removed, etc.

I think $2,500 will be what he'll end up getting for it, and gives the brass and pulled bullets as a bonus.

 

[Bonk]

I don’t want to shoot factory ammo in a 460W let alone unknown quality reloads.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

You gave him the exact same advice I would’ve given him.

The handloads add zero value to this package. Pull the projectiles, dump the powder and deprime. The only added value is the brass and projectiles.

It’s a niche caliber that’s not super popular and is more of an impulse purchase than necessity for someone. He needs to find the right buyer at the right time, specifically looking for that. Gun Broker with a low starting bid, or some sort of Make an Offer are his two best COA’s and will provide the most exposure.

I love my .257Wby. I see the merit in a 300Wby but anything else I think there’s a better caliber for the job.

 

[grand veneur]

I think you put him on the right path.

Those rifles, and many other firearms are what we call BBQ Guns, to be fired by friends and neighbors at an outdoor BBQ.

S&W M29 44mags, Desert Eagles, etc., are purchased, fired very little, then when the owner decides he'd rather have a new Harley, he want's top dollar for it.

I don't think the 460 is as bad as some make it out to be, but the rifles themselves were not suited for it. Far to light for the caliber, thin wrist that would crack if the muzzle brake were removed, etc.

I think $2,500 will be what he'll end up getting for it, and gives the brass and pulled bullets as a bonus.

The cartridge 460 Weatherby Magnum was the best cartridge caliber .458 on the market before the cartridge 450 Rigby came. The latter, which offers nothing more than the cartridge 460 Weatherby Magnum, was successful because one did not make the same mistakes that were initially made with the cartridge 460 Weatherby Magnum. By this I mean, above all, a totally overloaded cartridge with unsuitable bullets to create an external ballistics that nobody needed and then offering this cartridge in a also fundamentally unsuitable rifle concept for it. In addition, it was a very bad time for something like this, a time when the colonial empires were collapsing and the future of hunting in Africa was becoming uncertain. All of this led to that the cartridge quickly receiving a very bad press. The majority of the reports were immediately very negative and are unfortunately quoted unchanged for more than 60 years, as hardly anyone in the meantime made the effort to take a closer look at this cartridge and its performance. Opinions are now firmly established and unfortunately negative judgments continue to be made about it, above all by people who maybe have fired a few shots with rifles of this caliber at some point, but who have never really look at it, especially regarding various loads and their working by hunting heavy dangerous game.

 

[sgt_zim]

@grand veneur - I'm not saying it doesn't do what it's intended to do. It and 450 Rigby are both capable cartridges. I'm saying they are both silly ideas because what's the point of a 500 gr .458 at 2500 or 2550 fps? At 200 yards, it has about the same energy as my 404 Jeff at the muzzle. But who shoots at DG from 200 yards?

If a guy can handle a rifle with 100 ft lbs of recoil, step up to one of the 50s and their 570 gr bullets.

 

[Thomas Rutledge]

I feel the advice was on point. I have never been on a safari but have tried to educate myself on such an endeavor. I own 3 safari rifles as a hobbyist. The First was a .577 Greener BPE I had Superior load develop. It was in my local shop and I had to have it. Second was a Ken Owen build 10.75x68. I then bought a 460 WM in a weatherby Mark V. The rifle functions fine, kicks like a mule and I have practiced with it enough to where I feel I could take it on a safari and be successful with full power loads and no muzzle break. These rifles are not collectible, they are tools. In my view there are very few people who could fire one accurately and the only was to tell is to practice with it.

 

[skydiver386]

@grand veneur - I'm not saying it doesn't do what it's intended to do. It and 450 Rigby are both capable cartridges. I'm saying they are both silly ideas because what's the point of a 500 gr .458 at 2500 or 2550 fps? At 200 yards, it has about the same energy as my 404 Jeff at the muzzle. But who shoots at DG from 200 yards?

If a guy can handle a rifle with 100 ft lbs of recoil, step up to one of the 50s and their 570 gr bullets.

There are several reasons I chose the 450Rigby for my DG rifle build over the larger 470 and up chamberings.

First, I wanted a magazine rifle and not a double rifle. Yes, there are some very large bores like the 505 Gibbs and 500 Jeff, but they limit magazine capacity to 3. My build will likely fit 4 total.

Second, the large frontal area of the bullet can limit penetration. All else being equal, the 416 calibers will often out penetrate larger bores.

The selection of newer bullets available negates many of the advantages of the large bore nitro express cartridges in my opinion.

I believe that if the 460 had initially been loaded to more modest pressure and velocity levels, had the advantage of modern monolithic bullets, and had been chambered without it's excessive freebore in a heavier rifle, it would have been received with enthusiasm. The 450Rigby/460Wby are what the 458 Winchester and Lott were intended to be.

Rant mode off.

 

[sgt_zim]

There are several reasons I chose the 450Rigby for my DG rifle build over the larger 470 and up chamberings.

First, I wanted a magazine rifle and not a double rifle. Yes, there are some very large bores like the 505 Gibbs and 500 Jeff, but they limit magazine capacity to 3. My build will likely fit 4 total.

Second, the large frontal area of the bullet can limit penetration. All else being equal, the 416 calibers will often out penetrate larger bores.

The selection of newer bullets available negates many of the advantages of the large bore nitro express cartridges in my opinion.

I believe that if the 460 had initially been loaded to more modest pressure and velocity levels, had the advantage of modern monolithic bullets, and had been chambered without it's excessive freebore in a heavier rifle, it would have been received with enthusiasm. The 450Rigby/460Wby are what the 458 Winchester and Lott were intended to be.

Rant mode off.

Fair point on the magazine capacity, but what does a Rigby or Weatherby get you from 0 - 100 yards that you don't also get with 20 or 30 ft lbs less recoil out of Lott or WM? "Use enough tool for the job/bring enough gun" - Lott and Win mag satisfy that. I get it if you just want a Rigby or Wby mag. But most guys just don't, and for the same reason I don't.

I don't believe I've ever heard a complaint about the 50s lacking for penetration.

 

[skydiver386]

Fair point on the magazine capacity, but what does a Rigby or Weatherby get you from 0 - 100 yards that you don't also get with 20 or 30 ft lbs less recoil out of Lott or WM? "Use enough tool for the job/bring enough gun" - Lott and Win mag satisfy that. I get it if you just want a Rigby or Wby mag. But most guys just don't, and for the same reason I don't.

I don't believe I've ever heard a complaint about the 50s lacking for penetration.

The original idea behind the 416 Rigby, which is the parent case of the 450Rigby/460Wby/338Lap, etc., was to give larger case capacity with cordite and slower powders of that period. Larger case capacity with slower powders and lower overall pressure equals easier extraction on hot days.

Because of their smaller case capacity, both the Lott and Win. Mag are usually loaded to far higher pressures with faster burning powders to equal the velocity of the larger Rigby/Wby case. The Lott is often loaded to pressures that are absolutely MAX for it's case capacity. These higher pressures, while perfectly safe at 60 degrees F, can become dangerous at 90 degrees, leading to blown primers, difficult extraction, etc. In a DG hunting situation, this is something we obviously want to avoid.

As it pertains to the OP and the Wby MKV in question, the Norma ammo was often loaded so hot that Hell itself wouldn't have it, and combined with the small extractor on the Wby rifles, it was a problem waiting to happen.

This was always the reason for larger case capacity, lower pressures, Mauser style extractors and controlled round feed. It was reliability at all cost based on common sense and many years of experience among the old timers.