Converting a P14 enfield

[Amon458]

Does anyone know how hard it is to convert these to other calibers I know I will need to cut and weld the mag box so it will fit the cartridges. Im looking at using this for a long range rifle.

 

[JimP]

This is not a DIY type of conversion depending on what you plan on converting it to.

The 303 British is a rimmed cartridge so the bolt will give you some problems converting it to a rimless or semi-rimed round. Other than that changing out the barrel or rechambering it is fairly easy if you have the proper tools and experience. I am also guessing that you plan on changing out the stock also which is a job that the home hobbyist can do quite easy if you take you time and pay attention to the details.

 

[The Bongo]

The British army converted many .303s to 7.62/.308. Enfields were also made in .7.62 in India for years, and are good solid cheap guns. It may be cheaper and less hassle to find one of these if you want a larger calibre classic rifle.

In the US the P17 or P1917 is a 30-06 P14. They made about 2.5 million so finding one may well possible.

The P14 can certainly handle a rimless cartridge!

 

[Paul schlaphoff]

I did one of these a few years ago. It makes a nice conversion. The pattern 14 already has the proper bolt face for magnum cartridges. Mine is a .375 H&H. Also, it is a long action so just about any cartridge can be made to fit. The biggest headache is cutting the rear sight ears off and re-contouring the bridge. Most have an oval recess under the sight that should be filled. Remington made actions do not have the recess so are preferable. I re-barreled, put on a new bolt handle, (not necessary), put in a Timney trigger and restocked. I did cut the mag box, but it isn't necessary, just cosmetically better. I used a fiberglass stock and the stock seems to tame some recoil. Of course, it has to be drilled and tapped for scopes and sights. I can send some pictures if it would help.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Does anyone know how hard it is to convert these to other calibers I know I will need to cut and weld the mag box so it will fit the cartridges. Im looking at using this for a long range rifle.

Amon458
The P14 Enfield is made for the rimmed 303 British so you are very lucky. The bolt already fits any of the magnum calibers. No need to touch the magazine just get a M17 Enfield magazine and follower and build a nice 300 win mag. Some work to the feed ramp and rails needed but not much more. Fit a good quality barrel and stock and away you go.
Cheers mate Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

The British army converted many .303s to 7.62/.308. Enfields were also made in .7.62 in India for years, and are good solid cheap guns. It may be cheaper and less hassle to find one of these if you want a larger calibre classic rifle.

In the US the P17 or P1917 is a 30-06 P14. They made about 2.5 million so finding one may well possible.

The P14 can certainly handle a rimless cartridge!

The Bongo
I hate to be the bearer of bad news mate but the P14 and M17 Enfields were never made in India but only 8 n the USA.
Yes the SMLE NO4 ACTION only was converted to 7.62x51.
The Indian SMLE was a very beefed up no1 Mark 3 action built only in India for the 7.62x51.
If you built a 7.62x51 on a standard no1 action it would be a good idea to have plenty of life and medical insurance when you pulled the trigger.
The P14 and M17 Enfield are identical actions the 14 for the rimmed 303 and the 17 for the 30 ought six. The bolts are interchangeable with in the action so if you want to build a magnum on a 17 you could use the 14 bolt instead of opening up the 17 bolt.
The other is true as well if you want a rimless cartridge 8n a p14 just use a 17 bolt.
Hopefully this hasn't confused to many people.
Just as a side note the m17 actually holds 6 06 cartridges in the mag.
Cheers mate Bob

 

[bruce moulds]

first of all, what do you mean by long range?
then what targets?
if big game, you need a powerful enough cartridge to deliver required energy at the long range.
if targets or game, you need accuracy.
you need to be able to access bullets for the job in the calibre you choose.
1 moa is 1" at 100 yds, but 10" at 1000 yds.
but id does not go like that. a 1" at 100 rifle will mostly shoot bigger than 10" at 1000.
the things to consider when chasing accuracy are barrels, bedding, stocks, triggers, and actions.
as you mentioned actions, the others will not be discussed.
for a rifle to be as accurate as possible the action must have an absolutely flat bedding area, and the bolthole must be absolutely parallel to this.
the bolt should have minimal clearance in the bolthole.you will have to true the bolthole and drill it to be dead straight.
then the bolt must be straight, and by the time you do this work, you will have to bush the bolt to get minimal clearance in the hole.
the locking lug recesses must be square to the bolthole, and the lugs themselves square to the bolt to bear evenly.
the front of the action must be square to the bolthole, and the recoil lug flat and square to the bolthole.
the thread hole must be central to the bolthole, and the threads single point chased out to hold a correctly fitted barrel dead true.
you will need to shorten the locktime, and add a really good trigger. this does not include timney or the likes.
to get a good trigger to fit a p14/m17 might not be easy.
a set of scope bases with 20moa or other taper must be fitted true and straight so that the scope adjustments are as central as possible for most use.
the cheapest action to do this work to is the rem 700, and to buy one and do the work will cost as much as a bat, stolle, or nesika bay.
the p14/m17 will cost much more. to get up to spec.
don't ask me how I know this.
bruce.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

first of all, what do you mean by long range?
then what targets?
if big game, you need a powerful enough cartridge to deliver required energy at the long range.
if targets or game, you need accuracy.
you need to be able to access bullets for the job in the calibre you choose.
1 moa is 1" at 100 yds, but 10" at 1000 yds.
but id does not go like that. a 1" at 100 rifle will mostly shoot bigger than 10" at 1000.
the things to consider when chasing accuracy are barrels, bedding, stocks, triggers, and actions.
as you mentioned actions, the others will not be discussed.
for a rifle to be as accurate as possible the action must have an absolutely flat bedding area, and the bolthole must be absolutely parallel to this.
the bolt should have minimal clearance in the bolthole.you will have to true the bolthole and drill it to be dead straight.
then the bolt must be straight, and by the time you do this work, you will have to bush the bolt to get minimal clearance in the hole.
the locking lug recesses must be square to the bolthole, and the lugs themselves square to the bolt to bear evenly.
the front of the action must be square to the bolthole, and the recoil lug flat and square to the bolthole.
the thread hole must be central to the bolthole, and the threads single point chased out to hold a correctly fitted barrel dead true.
you will need to shorten the locktime, and add a really good trigger. this does not include timney or the likes.
to get a good trigger to fit a p14/m17 might not be easy.
a set of scope bases with 20moa or other taper must be fitted true and straight so that the scope adjustments are as central as possible for most use.
the cheapest action to do this work to is the rem 700, and to buy one and do the work will cost as much as a bat, stolle, or nesika bay.
the p14/m17 will cost much more. to get up to spec.
don't ask me how I know this.
bruce.

Bruce moulds

Bruce 200 yards group out of my P14 25 cal Enfield.

My P14 25 cal Llijla match grade stainless barrel, Boyds stock and Timney trigger.
117 grain SSTs group 0.90 8nches @ 200 yards.
All up cost 10 years ago including scope and mount and all gunsmith work was $1,100.
Shoots Barnes 100grain TTSX to t the same point of aim at 200.
Not to shabby for an old fella and a 1915 old military rifle.
No work to lock time and still cock on closing.
Cheers mate Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I did one of these a few years ago. It makes a nice conversion. The pattern 14 already has the proper bolt face for magnum cartridges. Mine is a .375 H&H. Also, it is a long action so just about any cartridge can be made to fit. The biggest headache is cutting the rear sight ears off and re-contouring the bridge. Most have an oval recess under the sight that should be filled. Remington made actions do not have the recess so are preferable. I re-barreled, put on a new bolt handle, (not necessary), put in a Timney trigger and restocked. I did cut the mag box, but it isn't necessary, just cosmetically better. I used a fiberglass stock and the stock seems to tame some recoil. Of course, it has to be drilled and tapped for scopes and sights. I can send some pictures if it would help.

Paul
My pair of Enfield. The one with the laminate stock is,a M17 35 Whelen AI, Douglas competition barrel, Timney trigger and Boyds stock.
The other is my 25 cal P14

 

[bruce moulds]

bob,
for conventional sane range hunting you are right.
but for long range now even a trued and sleeved Remington 700 can't cut it against stole, bat, etc.
one reason I did not mention earlier is those actions have 1" of thread for the barrel to screw into.
stiffnees, straightness, and tightness are not a priority with military rifles.
in fact they are to be avoided at all costs in favour of absolute reliability, and the 2 things are at opposite poles.
shooting a t long range requires a rifle and load (and shooter and wind reading) that can absolutely put all its shots in very small groups.
horses for courses.
bruce.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

bob,
for conventional sane range hunting you are right.
but for long range now even a trued and sleeved Remington 700 can't cut it against stole, bat, etc.
one reason I did not mention earlier is those actions have 1" of thread for the barrel to screw into.
stiffnees, straightness, and tightness are not a priority with military rifles.
in fact they are to be avoided at all costs in favour of absolute reliability, and the 2 things are at opposite poles.
shooting a t long range requires a rifle and load (and shooter and wind reading) that can absolutely put all its shots in very small groups.
horses for courses.
bruce.

Bruce
Stolle and panda are beautiful actions but it's horses for courses.
What range
What accuracy is needed
Whose building it
And what will it be used for game or target
What weight
How big is my wallet.
Military rifles were built for absolute reliability not good looks and outstanding accuracy but you can build beautiful accurate game rifles from them.
Cheers mate Bob

 

[Stuart Satterlee]

Which cartridge are you thinking about using.

 

[nztimb]

BUILDING AN ACCURATE RIFLE

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

BUILDING AN ACCURATE RIFLE

Von Gruff
Beautiful rifle great accuracy but no good for carrying around the bush.
Bob

 

[bruce moulds]

Bruce
Stolle and panda are beautiful actions but it's horses for courses.
What range
What accuracy is needed
Whose building it
And what will it be used for game or target
What weight
How big is my wallet.
Military rifles were built for absolute reliability not good looks and outstanding accuracy but you can build beautiful accurate game rifles from them.
Cheers mate Bob

bob, your questions are all valid, and I asked some of them of the o.p.
I built my 7mmstw to explore some of them.
the first thing I found was that at those speeds getting a bullet to perform terminally at close range and long range was very difficult.
virtually no bullet that performs at close range has a high b.c. to minimize wind deflection.
then came the difficulty of judging range.
that was overcome by buying a range finder.
with sight settings stuck on the butt, I could wind the elevation to the required setting quite accurately.
doing this, it became apparent that wind deflection was now the issue.
a wind measuring device seemed the answer, but guess what - it inly tells you what the wind is where you are, and not all the rest of the distance to the target.
even with that cartridge, and limiting shots to a max of 600 yds, the wind can easily blow a bullet clean off a goat or deer.
a clean miss can be accepted, but a wounding shot cannot, particularly when energy levels have significantly dropped off.
also, getting into a sufficiently stable position to make such shots in the field is not always possible.
now I use that rifle zeroed at 300 yds and point blank to 350, out to 400 yds with a backline hold at 400, and then only aim on fur, doing no sight adjustments, and only then with a good rest.
some would not call that long range, but I think 300 is a long shot under field conditions.
for this work, your m17, a m70, or a rem 700 or mauser 98 are adequately accurate.
and they function reliably in the dust etc.
bruce.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

bob, your questions are all valid, and I asked some of them of the o.p.
I built my 7mmstw to explore some of them.
the first thing I found was that at those speeds getting a bullet to perform terminally at close range and long range was very difficult.
virtually no bullet that performs at close range has a high b.c. to minimize wind deflection.
then came the difficulty of judging range.
that was overcome by buying a range finder.
with sight settings stuck on the butt, I could wind the elevation to the required setting quite accurately.
doing this, it became apparent that wind deflection was now the issue.
a wind measuring device seemed the answer, but guess what - it inly tells you what the wind is where you are, and not all the rest of the distance to the target.
even with that cartridge, and limiting shots to a max of 600 yds, the wind can easily blow a bullet clean off a goat or deer.
a clean miss can be accepted, but a wounding shot cannot, particularly when energy levels have significantly dropped off.
also, getting into a sufficiently stable position to make such shots in the field is not always possible.
now I use that rifle zeroed at 300 yds and point blank to 350, out to 400 yds with a backline hold at 400, and then only aim on fur, doing no sight adjustments, and only then with a good rest.
some would not call that long range, but I think 300 is a long shot under field conditions.
for this work, your m17, a m70, or a rem 700 or mauser 98 are adequately accurate.
and they function reliably in the dust etc.
bruce.

Bruce
If you look at the photo of my 25 you will see a piece of paper taped to the scope, that's my dope chart.
Out to 350 yards I hold dead on. Depending on the animal a back line hold is fine out to 450 to 500 yards. Not that I shoot that far. At 400 yards I am 10 inches low. I do like smacking the occasional 600ml bottle of water at 400 with it, great fun. When you launch a high BC bullet at over 3,300 fps light breezes don't really affect it much out to 300.
A 100 gr TTSX @ 3,600++fps gets out to 400 really quick and flat as well.
Cheers Bob Nelson

 

[bruce moulds]

bob,
when I discovered the wind problem, I took up fclass to try to learn about it.
it became a disease more than 25 years ago and there is no cure.
what it taught me is that with wind flags every 100 meters, even the best (not me) have wider groups than higher ones, assuming load and gun are on song and vert is minimized and technique is consistent.
also wind is not consistent all the way to the target, sometimes completely changing direction down range.
overlaying my plotsheets on game size sheets shows the futility of shooting at game past certain distances without flags.
and the fclass rifles weight nearly 10kg and are shot off benchrest rests, and you can control your heart and breathing because you have not been walking or running, and you have a while to get set up.
at the risk of offending our long range brethren, there are some serious wankers out there claiming to be able to deliver killing shots at 800+ yards with consistency.
and most of them do not take terminal performance of the bullet into account.
the marketing machine has been successful in convincing the great unwashed into believing that such shooting is now the norm.
bruce.

 

[CBH Australia]

Ahh, that Whelen looks alright. I’m sure the .25 is too but the sporter stock colour etc , yeah it looks alright hey,
Seems like the P14 or P17 are good platforms to build from without too much professional modification is what I mean seeing here.

 

[bruce moulds]

I think they have square threads, which require a bit more care and finer tolerances to get the barrel true.
bruce.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

bob,
when I discovered the wind problem, I took up fclass to try to learn about it.
it became a disease more than 25 years ago and there is no cure.
what it taught me is that with wind flags every 100 meters, even the best (not me) have wider groups than higher ones, assuming load and gun are on song and vert is minimized and technique is consistent.
also wind is not consistent all the way to the target, sometimes completely changing direction down range.
overlaying my plotsheets on game size sheets shows the futility of shooting at game past certain distances without flags.
and the fclass rifles weight nearly 10kg and are shot off benchrest rests, and you can control your heart and breathing because you have not been walking or running, and you have a while to get set up.
at the risk of offending our long range brethren, there are some serious wankers out there claiming to be able to deliver killing shots at 800+ yards with consistency.
and most of them do not take terminal performance of the bullet into account.
the marketing machine has been successful in convincing the great unwashed into believing that such shooting is now the norm.
bruce.

Bruce
I'm hearing you, if the wind is that bad I stay home or shoot from a different angle. In the bush I can move to have the wind in my face. Bit hard to move a concrete bench.
I used to like watching the old fellas with open sighted 303 out to 1,000 yards. Now those boys could shoot.
Game don't carry wind flags for us.
As Nick Harvey says there's plenty of longer range rifles but FA long range field shooters.
Bob