Cecil Redux: Xanda

[BRICKBURN]

I wouldnt hunt any Lion that has been named, or has a collar. Its not my perception of wild Lion hunting.

This Sheep was named "Big Daddy" by the biologists that were studying the herd that he belonged to. I personally chased this Sheep for three years and could never catch him in an area he could be hunted. At the time he was the #3 in the world (203). I would not have hesitated for one moment to pull the trigger.

Ann sure didn't.

 

[Royal27]

If someone shoots a Lion in the Rungwa, next to Ruaha National park, you hardly hear anyone bat an eyebrow. Shoot a well known Lion named Cecil next to Hwange, and all hell breaks loose on the internet.

I just feel that a certain amount of discretion should be observed. Fly under the radar, so to speak.

Brent I really don't think we are that far apart, but there are important details that make our positions different (even though we are absolutely on the same side of the overall fight).

See Wheels comments below. The lion named Cecil was NOT well known. Had you ever heard of him before he was shot? I hadn't. Being shot made him well known, along with a perfect storm of unfortunate circumstances, questionable decisions, and outright lies by antis.

Heck, I had a guy telling me that Cecil had been teaching all of the other lions to tolerate people and to not attack them. Dude was serious... Point is, you can't believe everything you read on the internet, like Cecil being well known and loved by millions.

When the Cecil story broke, I heard the following story come out of Zimbabwe. People in the parks department and over parks in Harare were calling the parks department in Hwange to ask why Hwange hadn't told them about this famous lion called Cecil before he was shot. The head of Parks at Hwange had no clue what they were talking about and asked his people why they hadn't told him there was a famous lion in Hwange. His employees didn't know there was a famous lion in Hwange named Cecil either. In other words, Cecil wasn't even known to the senior parks people in Hwange by name. He was known by name by the Oxford study group and a couple of tourist lodges in the area of Cecil's territory. In other words, he really wasn't famous until the media got hold of the story.

As far as discretion and flying under the radar it is again a fine line. I don't believe some idiot should take a picture of a dead animal with their boot on its head while pumping their fist in the air as one extreme. On the other end though I don't think we should not hunt because there is a research group nearby, or because that hunt might bring bad press.

Let me take that a bit further. I've seen quotes and pictures from AH used on anti websites to help their cause. Quotes were made in jest or misquoted. So.... should we use some discretion and demand that Jerome shut down the website? I mean one of those quotes could well be the starting of the next Cecil, you just never know....

And flying under the radar is what has gotten hunters and conservatives in trouble to begin with. We have to make our position heard and known. We must be respectful, but we must NOT be quiet! Going into the 2016 election I really thought the conservative portion of the States was truly in vast majority. I was wrong. Due to this, I won't be quiet again.

Ok, rant over, for now.

Side note - I'm still standing by original position that this one may not cause the "rain" that everyone is so afraid of. I just googled Xanda lion and the last article is 20 hours old. Articles most places also aren't allowing comments, which is obviously good. Only the anti sites seem to be allowing. No front page on any major publication yet that I've seen.

And has anyone seen mention of this on FB? Other than the DSC statement I haven't. After Cecil that's all my feed was and I actually posted my own opinion because I had so many questions.

We will know in a week for sure, but I still believe this is a non-event. And even if it is an event, let's use it to spread our side of the story!

 

[Royal27]

Anyone who doesn't want to take a chance at shooting a collared lion should also scratch the Bubye Valley off there list. They do it there too.

http://bubyevalleyconservancy.com/conservation-research/

Oh and Ruaha @Brent in Az ? Yeah... Sorry.... The Oxford Group (and I'm not bashing them to be clear, they do some great research) tracks there too. So scratch it off your list as a place to hunt lion.

http://www.ruahacarnivoreproject.com/research/satellite-tracking/

Well, at least there is always Zambia to hunt without a collar and a name....

Oops! My bad! Scratch that one off the list too.

http://www.zambiacarnivores.org/research

My point being, where there is an established lion population there will be both researchers and hunters, assuming hunting is legal. Both groups add value and both are critical to the survival of the species in the wild. We MUST learn to coexist.

 

[Wheels]

I wouldnt hunt any Lion that has been named, or has a collar. Its not my perception of wild Lion hunting.

Brent, I have quoted you a couple of times. Please don't feel I am picking on you. I don't mean to be, but another thought crossed my mind.

I read the following during the Cecil debacle: If a person had done a google search for a lion named Cecil in Zimbabwe prior to the news of his being shot broke, you would not have found anything on him. In other words he wasn't famous until the media made him a martyr. I stand to be corrected if I am wrong on this, but I did read it. (You can believe everything you read on the internet can't you?)

If I have a deer that wonders through our yard periodically, and my neighbors and I call him Gimpy, and you shoot him on your property a mile away during season is that wrong too.

 

[Brent in Az]

I think everyone is getting a little too defensive about the collar issue. I may have to hunt Lion in an area that mighthave research collars attached to some in an area, but that doesn't mean I will shoot a collared Lion that shows up on a bait.

I get the gist of collars, and why they are used. Collars are certainly an important part of conservation research.

If I ever go on a wild Lion hunt, I am looking for truly wild. A collar is the sign of human encroachment, and would jade the truly wild experience for me

I simply dont want to shoot one. To each his own.

Most of the world never heard of Cecil, until after he was killed. Cecil became a posthumous sensation overnight, and not in a good way. The way the internet exploded, you would think the Lion King was just assasinated by the devil himself. A black eye for the future of Lion hunting. Anti's love these high profile situations to strengthen the cause. Why give them the ammo?

We have collared Sheep right here in Tucson, in the Catalina Mountains. Unfortunately, the mountain lions have been eating them faster than they can release them.

All I am saying is that I dont want to hunt a lion wearing Jewelry, or names given to it by the local research crowd. Its just not my thing. At the end of the day, I am not to worried about a hunt that I will never be able to take, unless I win the lottery. So pretty much never.lol

It all comes down to personal preference.

 

[K-man]

All I am saying is that I dont want to hunt a lion wearing Jewelry

Brent, you have a permanent invitation to go duck and goose hunting with me. You let all the banded ones go, and I will shoot them for you. We will get along just fine.

 

[Brent in Az]

Brent, you have a permanent invitation to go duck and goose hunting with me. You let all the banded ones go, and I will shoot them for you. We will get along just fine.

Sure. Sounds like a good "Hold my beer" situation.

 

[Royal27]

I think everyone is getting a little too defensive about the collar issue. I may have to hunt Lion in an area that mighthave research collars attached to some in an area, but that doesn't mean I will shoot a collared Lion that shows up on a bait.

I don't think anyone is getting defensive, or at least I'm not. I've already stated I support your decision to not hunt any animal that has been named by anyone, or has a collar, or is in a high profile area (of course the area only becomes high profile after the animal is shot ).

Even though this week Lion was legally taken, I feel that outfitters should quit hunting the perimeter boundaries of these high profile areas.

The negative attention is not good.

I've been keying on your initial statement, which to me implied that you believe others should not hunt legal game in legal areas only because of the risk of bad publicity. If I misunderstood your statement and it only applies to you and no one else, then I apologize.

 

[Brent in Az]

I am certainly not the sharpest tool in the shed, and may not be conveying my point in the best way possible.

A Lion hunt in a certain area may be legal. The lion that wanders out of a protected area may be fair game. That does not necessarily mean that hunt should happen.

Does anyone remember that scene in the movie "Jurassic Park", when Jeff Goldbloom talked about the scientists being so absorbed in creating Dinosaurs, thay they didn't take the time to think about " If they should do it". They did it, and look what happened. (I know its just a movie)

I am not talking about collared sheep, or leg bands on a flock of birds.

I am talking about the most magnificent, and noble beast on the planet.

Just because a hunt
around Hwange is legal, it doesnt mean it should happen. Just like Jurassic park.

What is the best way to preseve Lion hunting for future generations? I am not smart enough to provide that answer

I do know that Lion hunting is going to be short lived, if we as hunters, continue to piss off the wrong crowd. Hence, my statement about flying under the radar.

IMO- Global Liberalism is growing at an alarming rate. These people want to stick their fingers in everyones pie, and poke you in the eye. They want to control everybody, and everything we do. This mindset includes the banishment of hunting. They are winning by small degrees. One little piece of the pie at a time.

I am not afraid of any group, or organization, that is against me. One of my favorite pastimes is banging heads with Liberals.

In this era of the Liberal controlled mainstream media, negative attention over high profile Lion kills will be the death of Lion hunting, and collaterally, Leopard as well.

Some of the Zim outfitters who conduct Lion hunts around that park might want to consider the long term, instead of the " Here and now" $$$$$$$.

Just sayin....

 

[Brent in Az]

I don't think anyone is getting defensive, or at least I'm not. I've already stated I support your decision to not hunt any animal that has been named by anyone, or has a collar, or is in a high profile area (of course the area only becomes high profile after the animal is shot ).



I've been keying on your initial statement, which to me implied that you believe others should not hunt legal game in legal areas only because of the risk of bad publicity. If I misunderstood your statement and it only applies to you and no one else, then I apologize.

I am just a nobody, and it is not my place to tell anyone else what to do on a legal hunt. My concerns are far reaching, over the broad spectrum of negative attention created by hunts that create it.
At the end of the day, my opinion does not count for much.

 

[Royal27]

Mine either

 

[Brent in Az]

Clarification.

My reference of groups, and organizations, is referring to Anti's and Lib's. Not towards the good folks here at AH.

Peace out.

 

[broncolcj]

Old Johnny Rodriguez isn't around this time to spin some lies, it's been much quieter this time

 

[Rick Cox]

Wish it was me..

 

[Hank2211]

I am just a nobody, and it is not my place to tell anyone else what to do on a legal hunt. My concerns are far reaching, over the broad spectrum of negative attention created by hunts that create it.
At the end of the day, my opinion does not count for much.

Brent, I could not disagree with you more.

In a sense, we are all nobodies - what's one person among the billions in this world?

But each individual opinion adds up, and eventually, if enough people see the sense in our views, both we and our opinions will matter. And politicians will have to take notice.

So please don't downplay yourself or your views. Whether we agree or disagree personally about the hunting of collared lions or lions at all, we are hunters and if we are united, we matter.

 

[mark-hunter]

Let me take that a bit further. I've seen quotes and pictures from AH used on anti websites to help their cause.

Royal27, do you have links to those web sites?
I'd like to see their arguments. Thanks.

 

[enysse]

My personal two cent opinion is the media is so in love with Trump that they are going to give this one a pass. If a different person was in power, lets say Clinton...I think this story would have more meat to it.. That's the way politics are played around here.

 

[Royal27]

Royal27, do you have links to those web sites?
I'd like to see their arguments. Thanks.

I don't.

FB pages in general as I recall. Although I occasionally read anti pages overall they bore me as it is the same old tired emotional story all the time.

 

[Foxi]

Got these days a Whats App message from a Safarioperator, who is working at Dete area/Zimb(district where these lions were shot,approximately)
"Xanda was roaming at communal land and the shot was absolute legal.
The collaring responsible B. and his Oxfordguys are short for the kickout ,because their fake news,given to the press.
Nationalpark management (decide over all quotas in Zimb) has "the nose full" of them.

Personally I would never shoot a collard animal.Although I'm a legal hunter.
Record trophy or not(will look what reality brings when I see Bricks sheep above)
I don't like to run in a open knife.
But I want to leave only footprints.
Foxi

 

[LivingTheDream]

Yeah the storms didn't come. There is too much in the news cycle. If it was shot by Don Jr with Putin as his observer then we would have a problem...

Cecil also happened and the story broke when there was negative news about Planned Parenthood potentially selling fetuses...not saying that media would cause a ruckus but the cynic in me wonders.