CBL Banned??

[375Fox]

So you support put and take hunting as long as the price is right on a non emotional animal?

The biggest issue is how we are defining put and take. Every animal released on a game farm is to be hunted, what we are discussing is everyone's ethical line on the size of the area and how long it has been released. That is going to vary from person to person, just like baiting, just like bow hunting, just like long range hunting, just like hound hunting.

Willing to accept is a better phrase. If a practice doesn’t cast hunters in a bad light with non-hunters I really don’t have an issue. If CBL shooting would stop being called hunting I really wouldn’t care either. Call it farmed lion harvesting to distance it from hunting. When a non-hunter looks at what the practice is, I see no faster way to create an anti-hunter. I find it very objectionable. The farmed lion industry brought this on themselves telling marketing lies from the start. PHASA removing the word ethical to replace with legal is a dangerous slope. Professional organizations are there to hold an ethical standard apparently except in this case.

Every animal is not released into a game farm just to be hunted. Plains game and buffalo are released to build mostly self sustaining herds. The old and excess are hunted, but they primarily live on fenced properties the same as they would outside the fence. CBL lions are released to be shot a very short time after. They will never breed or contribute to a lion population on that property. It was put there just to be taken during that hunting season. The fences were used do to hold it in until the hunter arrived.

 

[375Fox]

Also, just so everyone knows @375Fox is a great guy, and a hell of a hunter.

I appreciate this comment. I would prefer to never see a CBL debate come up, see a CBL marketing advertisement, see a CBL report. There are a number of people like yourself, I’d prefer not to be on the opposite side of this argument with, but I find it a very reprehensible practice. This is a better forum when this topic doesnt come up. If the practice isn’t banned, it does appear to be going quiet. I’m ok with that compromise if it exists, but done very quietly.

 

[LivingTheDream]

I appreciate this comment. I would prefer to never see a CBL debate come up, see a CBL marketing advertisement, see a CBL report. There are a number of people like yourself, I’d prefer not to be on the opposite side of this argument with, but I find it a very reprehensible practice. This is a better forum when this topic doesnt come up. If the practice isn’t banned, it does appear to be going quiet. I’m ok with that compromise if it exists, but done very quietly.

I agree and even though you and I are on complete opposite sides of this issue we both have a love for hunting and a lot more in common than not. I think sometimes that gets lost in the conversation.

 

[Rare Breed]

Here is my point of view. As a forum why don’t we just let a person share his lion hunting experience, as long as it is legal don’t spend time asking if it was a wild or CBL hunt…just celebrate with the person…that has always been and continues to be my POV.

 

[Rare Breed]

It’s just there are some people on our forum that forget my point above and then it suddenly becomes a CBL bashing post. Just let each person make their own decision and enjoy the hunt report

 

[dchum]

Here is my point of view. As a forum why don’t we just let a person share his lion hunting experience, as long as it is legal don’t spend time asking if it was a wild or CBL hunt…just celebrate with the person…that has always been and continues to be my POV.

No need to ask… it’s obvious to all who have any knowledge of Africa hunting.

 

[HankBuck]

Here is my point of view. As a forum why don’t we just let a person share his lion hunting experience, as long as it is legal don’t spend time asking if it was a wild or CBL hunt…just celebrate with the person…that has always been and continues to be my POV.

@Rare Breed - I just can’t do that - When a person shares their Lion Hunt Story to NOT ask “was it Wild or CBL?” How do you Not want to know? How is that Not a relevent question to provide context?
If your Single buddy goes out Friday Night and Sunday tells you “I picked up a gorgeous blond at a bar and had great sex with her all weekend”….but leaves out She-was-a-Hooker, wouldn’t that be relevant?

 

[Rare Breed]

Too funny!!!!!

 

[revturbo9967]

It’s just there are some people on our forum that forget my point above and then it suddenly becomes a CBL bashing post. Just let each person make their own decision and enjoy the hunt report

The issue is that you're asking people to suspend their opinions on one of the most debated subjects in hunting simply because someone posted pictures. By that logic, nobody should discuss game farming, put and take operations, or any other controversial hunting topic. Just look at the photos and clap.

That's not how this works. A public hunting forum exists for discussion, not mandatory applause.

People absolutely have the right to make their own decisions. But everyone else has the right to discuss those decisions, especially when they're voluntarily posted on a public hunting forum. A hunt report isn't immune from criticism simply because the hunter enjoyed it.

If someone posts a CBL hunt, don't be surprised when people discuss CBL hunting. The hunt and the discussion are directly related. You can't separate the two just because the conversation becomes uncomfortable.

What you're really asking for isn't that everyone make their own decision. You're asking everyone who disagrees to keep their opinion to themselves.

 

[Rare Breed]

You are 100% correct especially by those who have never been on a CBL hunt, keep their opinions to themselves…exactly. just my POV. Thanks for helping me make it more clear. Don’t be surprised how many people agree with me even if they themselves would never do a CBL hunt. I completely disagree that bashing hunters is the purpose of our forum if legally taken

 

[Rare Breed]

Also make no mistake it is bashing hunters by forcing no CBL hunting on other hunters. I have read the comments”Like shooting fish in a barrel”. Those type comments make that hunter feel bashed and no that does not sit well with me and you bet I will always challenge it because it starts to border on self rigous arrogance like a holier than thow. Just observation and POV on the CBL subject and so many more on AH who talk to me. At least it is limited to CBL lions and nothing else.

 

[LivingTheDream]

@Rare Breed how do think pheasants feel if they read this thread. Poor guys, get released, spun around so they dont run, chased by a dog, then kicked to fly, then shot, then told this isnt even hunting and are compared to escorts.

 

[Rare Breed]

lol my friend…not being a smart ass you knowing how much I like and respect you I think any animal I am going to shoot either wild or raised would not be happy!!! At least I am consistent with also having no problems hunting pen raised birds. In South Texas was the only place during my nine years living there I hunted truly wild birds. Otherwise i hunted pen raised. I always use excellent bird dogs and can honestly say the dogs always got the birds up to shoot and I greatly enjoy it

 

[LivingTheDream]

lol my friend…not being a smart ass you knowing how much I like and respect you I think any animal I am going to shoot either wild or raised would not be happy!!! At least I am consistent with also having no problems hunting pen raised birds. In South Texas was the only place during my nine years living there I hunted truly wild birds. Otherwise i hunted pen raised. I always use excellent bird dogs and can honestly say the dogs always got the birds up to shoot and I greatly enjoy it

I was being a smart ass. Trying to prove your point in a sarcastic way.

I just find the whole thread to be the theater of the absurd.

Also, everyone is acting like the movie pretty woman doesnt exist.

 

[Russ16]

Also make no mistake it is bashing hunters by forcing no CBL hunting on other hunters. I have read the comments”Like shooting fish in a barrel”. Those type comments make that hunter feel bashed and no that does not sit well with me and you bet I will always challenge it because it starts to border on self rigous arrogance like a holier than thow. Just observation and POV on the CBL subject and so many more on AH who talk to me. At least it is limited to CBL lions and nothing else.

I will say I don’t know why you care what another person thinks of your hunt. If it was satisfying for you that’s all that should matter.

Separately I don’t have to do a CBL hunt to have an opinion on th practice. Just lien I don’t have to hire a prostitute to have an opinion on that or commit a crime to have an onion on that or any number of other things. I can gather the data a decide I don’t want the experience and the express m opinion why I don’t want that experience.

 

[DaddyFlip]

I avoided this thread until it got to Page 9, simply because I didn't know what CBL was and I've enjoyed the debate. I think the only thing that matters is that we remain civil toward one another during the debate; challenge the opinion, not the one who opines. As a retired (aka non-) hunter, I'll just say that @Tanks and @HankBuck stole any thunder I might have contributed with the escort/hooker analogy. But so what? In this case, escorts are legal and every john is free to apply his own ethics to the outing. Anyone else is free to look down their nose or look the other way.

I'm on the side that not every gaming/sporting experience must support conservation. I'm on the side that no hunter has to justify or explain away how he used a game animal (legally taken). I'm on the side that no hunter has to look behind the curtain at the process or admit that the process isn't fair or admit that the game animals are livestock. So what? We're not living in the 19th century, and if you read the accounts of those famous hunters, they make it sound like wiping out the bison some days.

I have an under-counter dishwasher and use it, but sometimes I wash by hand. The conservationists tell me that the dishwasher uses less water to wash a full load than I do at the sink for a few dishes while I keep the water running; that's probably true. But I know who pays the water bill at my house and I don't want anyone telling me how to use water when I'm paying for the privilege to have it pumped into my house by the public utility rather than having to dig it out of the ground myself. This CBL thing sounds like a public utility to me; who wants to dig lions out of the ground or tote them from the river anymore? Who can afford to?

BTW, a few pages ago, someone said hunting was a right, not a privilege. That's absolutely NOT true as your licenses, stamps, fees, etc. should indicate. Is driving a privilege or a right?

 

[LivingTheDream]

I will say I don’t know why you care what another person thinks of your hunt.

I agree with this 100%. I also don't understand why someone wants to post an opinion about someone else hunt or how they want to hunt.

I mean seriously would you walk into a bar and see two people having a drink enjoying themselves and tell them you don't agree with what they are doing?

All hunting arguements come down to one basic premise, one side wants to hunt a certain way, and the other group wants to hunt another way. Thats it, in my person opinion it is like arranging deck chairs on the titanic.

 

[revturbo9967]

I agree with this 100%. I also don't understand why someone wants to post an opinion about someone else hunt or how they want to hunt.

I mean seriously would you walk into a bar and see two people having a drink enjoying themselves and tell them you don't agree with what they are doing?

All hunting arguements come down to one basic premise, one side wants to hunt a certain way, and the other group wants to hunt another way. Thats it, in my person opinion it is like arranging deck chairs on the titanic.

The difference is those two people in a bar are having a private conversation. A hunting forum is the exact opposite. It's a public discussion board where people voluntarily post photos, hunt reports, opinions, and experiences for thousands of other hunters and non hunters to read and comment on. Including anti hunters.

If someone posts a hunt report, they're not sitting quietly having a drink. They're standing up in front of the room and saying, "Here's what I did." Naturally, some people will congratulate them, some will ask questions, and some will disagree. That's how forums have always worked.

And the "it's legal" argument doesn't really move the needle for me. Lots of things are legal that are argued. Pot is legal in many places. Abortion is legal in many places. Gambling is legal. People debate those subjects every single day. Legality simply means the government allows it. It doesn't mean everyone has to agree with it, respect it, or remain silent about it.

The irony is that people defending captive-bred lion hunting are expressing an opinion about how hunting should be viewed, while simultaneously arguing that other hunters shouldn't express theirs.

 

[Rare Breed]

I was being a smart ass. Trying to prove your point in a sarcastic way.

I just find the whole thread to be the theater of the absurd.

Also, everyone is acting like the movie pretty woman doesnt exist.

lol your correct! Okay, I’m done with this one! They come up about once per year

 

[LivingTheDream]

The difference is those two people in a bar are having a private conversation. A hunting forum is the exact opposite. It's a public discussion board where people voluntarily post photos, hunt reports, opinions, and experiences for thousands of other hunters and non hunters to read and comment on. Including anti hunters.

If someone posts a hunt report, they're not sitting quietly having a drink. They're standing up in front of the room and saying, "Here's what I did." Naturally, some people will congratulate them, some will ask questions, and some will disagree. That's how forums have always worked.

And the "it's legal" argument doesn't really move the needle for me. Lots of things are legal that are argued. Pot is legal in many places. Abortion is legal in many places. Gambling is legal. People debate those subjects every single day. Legality simply means the government allows it. It doesn't mean everyone has to agree with it, respect it, or remain silent about it.

The irony is that people defending captive-bred lion hunting are expressing an opinion about how hunting should be viewed, while simultaneously arguing that other hunters shouldn't express theirs.

Not exactly, in this scenario the bar is called CBL hunting, and you decided to click it and then decided to give your opinion and say others are unethical. You have a right to do it, I just dont understand why you would do it.