Budgets and priorities

[Flbt]

While this simplistic condescending approach may make older folks feel superior. It basically is not true when it comes to many areas. Particularly housing.

BTW, I am almost 60 if it helps give you perspective.

Where I live housing costs have gone insane, Starbucks Latte or not.

Let me give you a simple example. My dad bought a house in 1972 for $32,000. The raw number is not important. It was about a 2000 square foot home in a nice neighbourhood and at the time $32,000 was a solid middle class income. So the ratio of home cost to annual income was about 1:1.
Now where I live the average home costs just over $1,000,000. And the average income is probably around $100,000 a year. That makes the home cost to income ratio about 10:1. A staggering difference.

There are also demographic issues going on. There is a large cohort of people who are not empty nesters and retirees who are now downsizing their homes and competing with first time homebuyers for bungaloos and townhomes driving up the proportionate cost of entry level homes even more. The young folks can't outbid the old folks for entry level homes and they can't afford to buy the big places they are leaving. Tough spot.

If you want a ton more data to support housing costs going up way faster than income it is not hard to find.

Employers now are much less likely to offer pensions than they used to, making it harder to achieve retirement income.

The cost of a post secondary education has gone up way faster than inflation or wages, and many more jobs now require a post secondary degree to even get an interview. The topic is well studied and is often referred to as "education inflation." It's a real problem, even in Canada where tuitions are often subsidized.

Even on the manufacturing end it is a tougher way to make a living than ever. In the United States the year with the highest manufacturing output (adjusted for inflation) was 2024. However the year with the highest employment in manufacturing was 1972 (or 74?). So while worker productivity has gone up over the last 50 years has gone way up, the number of manufacturing workers needed has gone down due to mechanization and computerization. This trend looks to accelerate rather than reverse.

I could go on but the picture is clear. It is tough out there for young people.

To be honest I get a little bit embarrassed when people who are established (like me) sit back, pat themselves on the belly and rant on about how "if only young people were more like us they would all be fine." The fact is we grew up in a rare period of great opportunity. We should be grateful not condescending.

Perhaps instead of blowing hot air about young people we could turn some of that supposed wisdom we have accumulated to helping young folks solve the new challenges they face. But that would require us to stop patting ourselves on the back and give a shit about the young people in our communities so I guess it is a huge ask.

Talking of houses
I inherited a old block house 900sq ft. My aunt and uncle payed 5500$ for it and 8 acers of land in 1950.
I turned down 129k for it and 2 acers it’s on.
They want to take it down and build another house on the 2 acers.

 

[deewayne2003]

I don't think the problem is with people expending money on things like uber eat, African safaris or new cars. The problem is with people expending money they don't have and then complaining that they cannot save enough like their grand parents!.

Typical case, this used to cost pennies, now so many dollars... Yes and what where the salaries back then?.

Houses are so much bigger, same with cars.

Minimum wage in 1986 was $3.10, adjusted for inflation you need to make $18hr to have the same purchasing power.

Average person making $18hr today is 24yo with a college degree and student debt.

Boomers always mention the houses were smaller, yes it’s not the norm that new construction is cheaper than existing houses but that’s the market; look at the sales of tiny homes(flat bed with a shed), barndiminums & container houses that have become the new norm for a starter home.

If you think the average new build home is luxurious, you’ve never seen the stained concrete floors and stained plywood stairs in some of these new houses with $400k+ price tags that are staying on the market much longer.

 

[CBH Australia]

@Flbt yes the money has changed and you show good comparisons.

But I also think the lifestyle has changed and we need to accept that to save falling further behind.

My first home was pretty ordinary and I still live in a 100 year old home that we renovated ourselves.

A million dollars doesn’t buy you what it used to but I’m sure a lot of people who struggled to get ahead still value a dollar

The comparison on firearms is good. But today we own multiples of. Probably because we paid our bills first.

The little things add up. My diet doesn’t work unless I work at it. And I think money is the same.

 

[Flbt]

@Flbt yes the money has changed and you show good comparisons.

But I also think the lifestyle has changed and we need to accept that to save falling further behind.

My first home was pretty ordinary and I still live in a 100 year old home that we renovated ourselves.

A million dollars doesn’t buy you what it used to but I’m sure a lot of people who struggled to get ahead still value a dollar

The comparison on firearms is good. But today we own multiples of. Probably because we paid our bills first.

The little things add up. My diet doesn’t work unless I work at it. And I think money is the same.

I understand not over spending.
I My aunt that helped raise me came up through the depression.
But if a 1960 silver dollar has the vale of 50$ 2025 paper $ we are not paying the same game.
There a lot of value that was stolen.
And the bad part about that it was our own government that did the stealing.

Thank of it like this is you got the 7.25 min wage in 1960 silver dollars that’s about 362 $ value per hr. Not 7.25$. That’s a huge difference in buying power.

Gas in 1960 was about 0.31 a gallon
A 1960 dime is worth about 4$
Today’s average per gallon in fl is 3.01 so gas compression would be less than a dime in 1960 value
There is a difference. Money is not money really any more.

That depression era aunt btw told me to put back silver and gold not paper.

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

Most people "these days" (insert whatever generation you want) have a hard time delaying gratification. Same people do not understand the difference between disposable income and discretionary income. They most likely have never created a budget for their actual living expenses or given consideration to savings invested towards retirement.

My grandpa grew up during the depression, worked picking cotton as a kid at the same time hunting and trapping food for him and his family. He had to make his way to California after the war to work as a day laborer in a mill, until after 25 years, he literally broke his back and had to take an early retirement... But, he saved his money and lived very frugally as he worked other jobs to make ends meet. I paid attention!

 

[Hogpatrol]

Didn't have AC back in the '50s & '60s. Fans just moved around hot air. If you wanted cool, you slept on a cot in the basement. We did walk over a mile to high school, up hill both ways, in the snow. My parents said quit complaining. This was them.

 

[Flbt]

Actually looking at my examples I am even more concerned/ worried
If a 1960 dime gas a 4$ value.
Min wage now is less than 0.20$ value compared to 1960 money.
4$+ 4$ is 8$ that’s more than the minimum wage I was using.
So the 1.25 min wage was a lot more value

 

[steve white]

Two cowboys leaning against a fence. "Well, it's been another lean year, better cinch the belt up another notch." Said while 12 inches of belt was already cinched up and they were skinny enough to disappear from sight if they turned sideways. lol

Greatest teacher on money? Someone who comes to America from another country. Met a Russian working her little shop at Gallerina mall. She said she could not believe how her American friends wasted money. She already had paid off her duplex, all her furniture and her car. Her new friends were always broke.
An acquantance married a Ukrainian girl. She came home one day, slammed down her purse and things and declared, "I am NOT paying $8 for a pantsuit!"

then again, "If your income doesn't equal your outflow, your upkeep will be your downfall."

 

[coreydb]

......what's avocado toast?......no wait......thank God I don't!

 

[mdwest]

Classic…. Every OZ boomer rant includes Avocado toast and high priced coffee!

Seriously though I agree with some of what you’ve said, but it also expands across generations.

I recently listened to a squad of boomers go on for half an hour about how they can’t live on social security, then spend another half hour arguing over Harleys and where they would go on their next cruise.

I’ve driven the same truck for 13 years, it’s only my second vehicle since graduating highschool and I bought it used at 3 years old.

DoorDash- never used it and I find it lazy and wasteful.

I don’t own a home and never have, I bought acreage because the cost of ownership was lower and I could buy the property for less than a mortgage payment on a house that comes with taxes and other cost of ownership.

I own 1 TV - it’s the first new TV I’ve ever owned and I haven’t had cable in years and don’t miss it.

Avocado toast - I’ve spent a total of 3 months traveling around OZ and I can’t recall seeing Avocado toast on the menu and never seen a $12 cup of coffee. While I did have Starbucks the other day in the US and the most expensive drink was $7 and yes I do see it as a waste.

By far the biggest waste of time and money I’ve ever experienced in my life was college; time and cost is simply not worth listening to people pontificate about how the world should be when they couldn’t feed themselves if not for the academia slave trade.

Youre a pretty distinct exception from other Gen Y types though I think..

Most Gen Y I know will uber to a destination, even though they own a car.. just because its convenient... and will door dash a couple of times a week for the same reason..

Im blown away by how many pay substantial amounts of money to play app/games on their phones.. Im not talking $5 every month or two.. Im talking $5 every day or two..

Having the latest/greatest phone is a priority.. as is having the newest, most innovative laptop, etc..

but theyre perfectly happy renting rather than owning a home.. and perfectly happy driving an older vehicle.. and will then tell you its because they arent materialistic like GenX or Boomers (while at the same time texting something to someone on their $1200 phone using their $120 a month data plan)..

Its a hard thing for the older generations to figure out (and Im sure the older generations are hard for the millennials to figure out)..

I personally dont think either is right or wrong... I think its just a difference in priorities and values.. to each his own.. It doesnt bother me at all that a millennial prefers his phone over something like say a really nice watch.. or that a boomer puts more value in owning a rolex, and is perfectly happy continuing to carry a flip phone in an effort to "save money"..

I just dont have any time or patience for listening to either party bitch or complain about the other.. we all make choices..

when I was in my 20's my choice was to literally work 3 1/2 jobs.. when I graduated with my bachelors degree I went to work in banking and finance initially (truly hated that profession.. but I was good at it and successful for the few years I did it).. I also worked nights a couple of nights a week at a pool hall / camera shop.. and worked weekends at a large nightclub/bar... I was also in the national guard..

thats simply what it took for me to live at the level I wanted to live.. I didnt want to "struggle" to pay the mortgage.. so I worked 60-70 hours a week through my 20s and 30s to not "struggle"..

if someone in a younger generation values their free time more and is willing to do with less.. more power to them.. enjoy your nights and weekends.. and figure out how to navigate living with roommates, etc... but dont bitch to me about it being impossible to live on todays wages.. it wasnt easy to live on 1980's and 1990's wages either.. but if you were willing to work 60+ hours a week, you could make it work, own a house, not have to live with a roommate, have a decent car, etc..etc.

Its really just a matter of priorities.. people have different priorities these days.. and thats fine.. I dont have to understand a young guys priorities.. and he certainly doesnt have to understand mine...

I completely agree with you on the college thing.. holy shit how things have changed..

When I did my bachelors in the mid to late 80's campuses were already becoming liberal cesspools more focused on ideologies than knowledge, learning, and independent thinking.. but at least when you took a class in "english literature" or "algebra" that was the subject matter you would listen to for the day..

I went back and did my first masters program in the mid 2010's.. for every nugget of actual subject based information provided there were 2 nuggets of ideological bullshit put on the table that the students were expected to consume..

Sadly we live in a society that equates education with probability of success and without formal education, certain career fields simply wont entertain the thought of hiring you (Im amazed for example at the number of law enforcement agencies that wont hire someone without a bachelors degree... how a degree in phys ed or education is going to make someone a better narcotics investigator or SWAT cop is beyond my understanding.. but try getting hired onto a major metro agency these days without the sheepskin listed on your resume)..

I think a lot of that will change over the next 8-10 years though.. look at the Amazon layoffs happening this week.. the vast majority of the people losing their jobs are in highly technical or analytical positions.. guess who isnt losing their jobs? the facilities maintenance guys.. the truck drivers.. the people in the fulfillment centers, etc..

Trades are finally making a bit of a comeback.. universities are going to have to change their model if they want to remain relevant to anyone other that specialized professionals (doctors, accountants, engineers, lawyers, etc)..

 

[Jhsmith]

I remember when you could buy a hamburger, small fries and a small drink from McDonald’s and get changed back from your dollar.

Beat that!

 

[LivingTheDream]

look at the Amazon layoffs happening this week.. the vast majority of the people losing their jobs are in highly technical or analytical positions.. guess who isnt losing their jobs? the facilities maintenance guys.. the truck drivers.. the people in the fulfillment centers, etc..

Trades are finally making a bit of a comeback.. universities are going to have to change their model if they want to remain relevant to anyone other that specialized professionals (doctors, accountants, engineers, lawyers, etc)..

Trades are making a comeback today, but you better believe robotics and AI will come for them next. In 20 years, I see those jobs getting slaughtered as well. Self driving cars are 100% happening so doubt it is good advice to tell a youth of today.

You actually hit the nail on the head though college's should only be relevant to specialized professions. All others will be automated.

On the overall topic, I love a good boomer rant, its not like our fiscal policy changed off a gold standard to devalue a currency and create enormous wealth for those accumulating assets during that time. Couldn't be that generation was alive during an amazing time in human history let alone US history, it has to be that particular generation all had amazing financial sense and instinct that no other generation before or after has ever possessed.