Bear Baiting..............banning

IdaRam

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Going along hand in hand with the excellent points Van and Jeff have already made, you also have to take into consideration some additional factors that influence the size of bears in Idaho. One is known as “negative foraging period”. In much of Idaho it can be tough for a bear to make living and in many areas of the state (not all, but most) from the time a bear emerges from its den in the spring it continues to lose weight for a month or two. The forage available is not nutrient dense until some time in July or August when berries and mast crops start producing. Living in the mountains with lots of snow for much of the year means bears are not eating for much of the year. 6 months in the den is common.
The bear mating season takes place from late May through early July and bears, especially boars, are burning more calories than they are taking in due to high mobility and lack of nutrient dense feed. Generally speaking bears in Idaho have from about mid-July through late September to pack on enough fat to get them through the winter and the negative foraging period in the spring, ie short growing season similar to trout in small, high mountain lakes vs a large, low altitude reservoir. Their heads get big and their bodies stay small.
In areas of the country that regularly produce large bodied bears of 500 pounds plus, there is usually much less time spent in the den and food sources available most of the year that are nutrient dense.
Also for reference, just compare inland grizzlies to coastal brown bears. A good size inland grizzly is 500-600 pounds, whereas coastal brown bears may be 400 pounds heavier. Genetics yes, but mostly environment.
 

outwestidaho

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Yes Idaram Dan . This is exactly why the grizz has never done well here and never will. This part of the world isn't good Grizz country. There have always been a few around but not lots. When Lewis and Clark came through this part of the world all the grizz were down here in the flats. Like they are around Yellowstone park. They don't do well where snow is on the ground in Sept. and doesn't leave until late June. Its just going to be another failed policy that will never work no matter how hard the antis and the federal government try. But it will keep us off of federal ground and become a land of no use. I believe this to be the true goal and the grizz is just the thing to make it happen.
 

Thumper Mcgee

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Your understanding of Idaho and Idaho bears is totally off base .
We don't have the same genetics in our bears as you do. Your bears would never survive here. Their to fat and blubbery to make it in such rough country. A friend of mine calls ours, racing bears. The two biggest units that this ban will affect are unit 10 and 12. There are others, but these to are the big ones. These units alone would come close to covering you state in area. I live less than 20 miles from both units and grew up here and guided in both also. Once you enter unit 10 you wont see private property for over 168 miles in one direction and only 2 roads. Our bears here are over populated and under hunted that's why the season is a total of 3 month and you can take 2 bears per year. Imagine your state with only 2 roads in it and they are dirt roads . Now to size. Our bears have a very long hibernation period in these units. The growing season will be only 5 months or less in most cases. A 300 pound bear in these units is normally 18 years old or older. We are a check station for Idaho fish and game and all bears in Idaho must be checked after you kill one. Some bears are 150 pounds and have no teeth left in their mouth. Old old bears. So size of the bear has absolutely nothing to do with age. Why would anyone want to hunt bears in Idaho ? 1 for the adventure. Not everyone is after that biggest giant in the woods. 2 our bears have a much older age class than yours and way more real-estate to roam therefore more fun.
I believe our bears to be much harder to take than yours. Spot and stalk kills in those units were only 17 bears out of a total kill of only 279 bears. Incidental bears were only 4. That last one means that several thousand elk hunters roaming these units only ran into 4 bears with 60 days of open season for hunting . The bears are there but seeing one next to impossible in this type country. Typical bait here will bring in over 20 bears most very young . There coming from somewhere.
The guide you said was bragging about a 300 lb bears had the rite to. The 300 lb bears here are double the age class of your bears (at least )and sounds like a 100 times harder to kill than your bears. Bait is the only way to reduce our bear population. Study's have showed bears kill almost 80 % of our elk calves. Now throw in Mt lions and the devastating wolves, elk in these areas are at an all time low of 8 % of what they were in the 90 'S.
To finish I have a bear on bait now for 3 years. He's over 400 lbs. My guess is he's pushing 30 years old. He doesn't come in in daylight hours he knows better. I've tried a little of everything to change his ways. No luck in backpacking thousands of pounds of bait on my back and setting for hundreds of hours hes still winning the game . If I ever connect with him he will be one of my hardest, most rewarding trophies in my life and I've taken a lot of elk ,sheep , goats ,deer ,moose caribou and 5 trips to Africa. So your bears must be dumb if you can throw bait behind your house and a bear shows in a half hour. Or your hunting dumpster bears in your area. I have way more info but this is getting long. The only reason to stop baiting because of grizzly in these units it to stop all hunting in national forests here. More grizz are mistakenly or purposely killed here by general hunters hunting other species and not by bait. Baiting's just a good place to start because it divides hunters. Hope this gives some real incite into Idaho bears.
were i live the bears usually dont get over 250 pounds
 

Gemsbok45

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CW did you do any cat hunting in Africa? I prefer spot and stalk also but save the holier than thou stance for Joe Biden maybe he will just outlaw bear hunting. Great minds think alike!
 

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