Assets

[Safari Dave]

My brother and I had a very in-depth discussion last week about tangible assets versus money in the bank.


I'm into firearms. He's into musical instruments.

We started comparing the value of our collections, versus the value of American dollars over time.

Both of us started "collecting" about 30 years ago.

In almost every case, a Certificate of Deposit (CD) that made 5% APR would have been worth more now than almost any item in our collection of firearms or instruments. (Of course, dollars could be worthless almost overnight, given the circumstances.)

I didn't do in-depth financial research, but I didn't have a gun that made this mark (& he didn't have an instrument):
$1,000 x 5% interest x 30 years = $4,321.04

Gold (and some luckily picked real estate, with stupid expensive insurance and property taxes) were about the only thing we could come up with that would have made us more without being actively involved, than just money in the bank collecting interest...

Gold - 1995 vs 2025 - $390/oz then - $3,400/oz now - 7.5% APY


IMO, real estate is really a "roll of the dice," because of property taxes and insurance.

In some cases homeowners insurance in Florida is going to go up 600% because of weather this year.

Ideas???




'

 

[375Fox]

Land without a loan. The timber, farming lease payments, or oil/gas royalties offset the taxes then the land just grows in value at no cost to you.

 

[Sabre]

I wouldn't really call real estate a "roll of the dice", and if it is, it is one that is a heavily weighted dice that most often leans towards winning.

Yes, there are examples of losing money on real estate. But many people, including people who aren't incredibly bright or capable make fortunes off real estate. You can make money from renting a property, and at the same time the property most often appreciates in value at a rate that outpaces most other assets. At least so far in history that has been the case over the long term.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

My brother and I had a very in-depth discussion last week about tangible assets versus money in the bank.


I'm into firearms. He's into musical instruments.

We started comparing the value of our collections, versus the value of American dollars over time.

Both of us started "collecting" about 30 years ago.

In almost every case, a Certificate of Deposit (CD) that made 5% APR would have been worth more now than almost any item in our collection of firearms or instruments. (Of course, dollars could be worthless almost overnight, given the circumstances.)

I didn't do in-depth financial research, but I didn't have a gun that made this mark (& he didn't have an instrument):
$1,000 x 5% interest x 30 years = $4,321.04

Gold (and some luckily picked real estate, with stupid expensive insurance and property taxes) were about the only thing we could come up with that would have made us more without being actively involved, than just money in the bank collecting interest...

Gold - 1995 vs 2025 - $390/oz then - $3,400/oz now - 7.5% APY


IMO, real estate is really a "roll of the dice," because of property taxes and insurance.

In some cases homeowners insurance in Florida is going to go up 600% because of weather this year.

Ideas???




'

Formerly, real estate was not a terribly liquid asset. Had to wait for a sellers' market. Same with collectibles. I have done okay with investments. One year 11%. Most years I can do better than inflation rate. Every year since 2009 I think. I don't pay much attention. Let the professionals handle my money.

I had to manage my dad's rentals when he and mom were out of town five months every winter. It's work! Pain in the arse!

 

[Safari Dave]

I've had a little experience with rental property and agree with you 100%

 

[mdwest]

The problem with collectables as an investment is that collectable markets wax and wane frequently and many (most) of them are impacted very hard whenever there is a downturn in the economy (people simply arent interested in buying collectables when times are tough or they arent willing to pay premiums for them)..

you can certainly make a good bit of money in collectables like musical instruments, firearms, etc.. but Id be cautious not to plan on collectables being a viable source of income or a reasonable part of a retirement plan later in life.. no one knows what an economy will look like 5 or 10 or 15 years down the road.. and its very possible to find yourself owning a lot of really cool stuff that makes you feel good.. but that also has no real material value at a time that you might really need it to have value..

Like a few of you, I at one time had a couple of rental properties.. I think moving forward that rentals will be a very good investment.. all indicators are that for the next few decades the demand for residential rentals is going to continue to increase while home ownership in the US is decreasing...

but for me, there's way too much work involved... If I had enough properties to either hire someone to manage them or enough cash flow in any property that I could hire a management company to oversee things I might be interested.. but I have no desire to chase tenants for payments and/or chase future tenants to rent my places out, no desire to have to schedule/oversee/manage property improvements and fixes (I hate doing that even with my own home), etc..etc..

after a couple of years I got out of rental properties.. that's been almost 25 years ago.. I definitely wont go back to it at this stage in life..

 

[Red Leg]

My brother and I had a very in-depth discussion last week about tangible assets versus money in the bank.


I'm into firearms. He's into musical instruments.

We started comparing the value of our collections, versus the value of American dollars over time.

Both of us started "collecting" about 30 years ago.

In almost every case, a Certificate of Deposit (CD) that made 5% APR would have been worth more now than almost any item in our collection of firearms or instruments. (Of course, dollars could be worthless almost overnight, given the circumstances.)

I didn't do in-depth financial research, but I didn't have a gun that made this mark (& he didn't have an instrument):
$1,000 x 5% interest x 30 years = $4,321.04

Gold (and some luckily picked real estate, with stupid expensive insurance and property taxes) were about the only thing we could come up with that would have made us more without being actively involved, than just money in the bank collecting interest...

Gold - 1995 vs 2025 - $390/oz then - $3,400/oz now - 7.5% APY


IMO, real estate is really a "roll of the dice," because of property taxes and insurance.

In some cases homeowners insurance in Florida is going to go up 600% because of weather this year.

Ideas???




'

I have a wonderful group of firearms that will do well in the right auction one of these days. However, I never look at the purchase of a firearm as an "investment." Like art or a rare book, I purchase them because they are something I enjoy. My investments are our stocks and our property (on which we owe nothing). I do have some gold in the safe for end of the world expenditures, but like any collectable (to include guns) the long term capital gains tax is 28% rather than the 20% of most investments - which is an important upper to your analysis.

 

[mdwest]

Land without a loan. The timber, farming lease payments, or oil/gas royalties offset the taxes then the land just grows in value at no cost to you.

Ive got a good friend that excels at this.. he gets ag exemptions for properties that he buys so annual taxes are almost non existant.. he then either leases out rights on the properties or timbers them, or sets up deer camps/clubs and sells memberships, etc.. and has the properties essentially pay for themselves (in some cases he creates a little bit of positive cash flow)...

he then just sits on them until there is a big increase in value.. and sells them off.. sometimes that only takes a few years.. others he sits on for decades..

but he has gotten extremely wealthy doing this..

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I have a wonderful group of firearms that will do well in the right auction one of these days. However, I never look at the purchase of a firearm as an "investment." Like art or a rare book, I purchase them because they are something I enjoy. My investments are our stocks and our property (on which we owe nothing). I do have some gold in the safe for end of the world expenditures, but like any collectable (to include guns) the long term capital gains tax is 28% rather than the 20% of most investments - which is an important upper to your analysis.

Interesting. Presumably the higher capital gains tax on gold is to discourage people from taking potential investment capital out of circulation. Same with capital gains tax on rental property or real estate speculation vs homes. Must live in the home for so long before getting the tax break. Up here I get a tax break on fees charged by investment broker. Those fees come right off my taxable income. There again the incentive is to keep money moving. Which is a good thing I guess.

 

[bowjijohn]

Land in the long term

Ammo, cigarettes, antibiotics, sugar, salt and insulin when the poop hits the fan

 

[gram2117]

Pretty tough to beat the SP 500 index over the past 50 years (11.62%) but I still try with individual stocks. I have also tried to diversify my portfolio into precious metals, crypto and more cash the last couple years for the crazy times we live in. Also have a paid off house and a bunch of toys and collectibles but have no interest in selling those.

 

[Hunt anything]

It won’t amount to a whole heck of a lot, but books. First additions of some books are quite valuable. My mother has a first edition of To Kill a Mockingbird and people have offered her but it’s in the low thousands. Probably paid less than $10 for it. Some of my safari books are first editions and my We Were Soldiers by General Moore and Joe Galloway, signed by both has risen in value, especially since Joe passed not too long ago.
We always have to remember that things that are valuable to us are only worth what someone is willing to pay. Not including real estate, gold and things like that.

 

[Muskox]

I have been doing index funds for years. They are liquid as long as you can get the internet to work.

Land really depends on location.

My father in law has done exceptional with land. I hope some day to reap the benefits of his farsightedness.

 

[cash_tx]

Ive got a good friend that excels at this.. he gets ag exemptions for properties that he buys so annual taxes are almost non existant.. he then either leases out rights on the properties or timbers them, or sets up deer camps/clubs and sells memberships, etc.. and has the properties essentially pay for themselves (in some cases he creates a little bit of positive cash flow)...

he then just sits on them until there is a big increase in value.. and sells them off.. sometimes that only takes a few years.. others he sits on for decades..

but he has gotten extremely wealthy doing this..

We should do this with land in Arkansas and/or Oklahoma.

 

[C.W. Richter]

Fine sporting firearms are somewhat non-liquid during a poor economy. And, to get any return you have to hold on to 'em for a long time. (I just got 2-3x what I paid 10 yrs ago for a few guns.) It's NOT investment level, rather, I purchased some real beauties and/or shooters that meant something to me. The typ $10Ks-$100K in guns, if put into a Roth IRA or online trading account, with the best-performing ETFs you'll make 10%/yr and if you additionally buy some proven stock that could be 40%.) IOW: I put gun level money into these accounts and I doubled my money in less than 2 yrs. That's investment. A really shrewd gun dealer can do the volume to earn a living (and thus his/her investments can pay off.) Things will get cold for most buyers during a typical dem (Obama/Bidenomic) recession, but a small percentage of buyers are essentially recession-proof. Raw, unimproved Land. Special tax breaks for forest/ag use (clean & green, ag exemptions, etc.) Cash up front. It almost NEVER loses value. 6 here have nearly tripled in value in <20 yrs (some of which is tied to petro values), which seems impressive on the surface, but you have to factor-in inflation (and your minor expenses-taxes, insurance, maint.) I know of a realtor that uses other people's money (a very large organization fond of cruise ships in the middle-ages lol) to buy just this sort of land, leasing out every possible use (ag/timber/gas/oil as stated above/mining/hunting/houses/cabins if present), selling off all fieldstone windrows/walls (excepting those that mark property boundaries,) and the land literally pays itself off entirely within 3 years of doing so, and the rest is gravy. Then, they buy more land, repeating the same formula over and over and over. And, after the investments are paid off, their full value is owned and you can fairly easily liquidate with or without improvements in the future for a minimum of double what you initially paid! My butcher (Swiss!) got into gold at just the right time (with tips from his "Homies!" lol)...He paid $200 and it went to $2000 (his first $20K became $200K and so-on, but it does fluctuate and timing is everything, like the stock market.) Cash IS King! You could've had 2 beauties from Heart (at a pawn shop in A.C., NJ) recently! "What a Maroon!" -B. Bunny ***Many musicians in the fam with pricey instruments (they cherish!) I did see that Tod Rundgren bought EC's famous (Dutch Artist's creation) Gibson SG he played in Cream (for $700 from a guy that needed money) and sold it for $700K! That's investment. I think the right instruments win by considerable margin!!! Some of the old Martin guitars made nearby are now selling for $100K-$150K. Now, if you have the Wilkes-Booth gun, Colt Walkers, etc....

 

[JimP]

You can't expect to get rich over night.

I have a friend who 45 years ago got tired of living in someones else's home/apartment. He managed to float a loan for a duplex that needed work. He purchased it and fixed up one side and lived in the other, once the one side was finished he got a renter into it who was almost paying his mortgage. He then fixed up the side that he was living in. Once that side was finished he picked up another duplex and did the same thing. Within 2 years he was renting out 3 homes/apartments. He now owns a dozen duplexes that's paying him a tidy sum. He also picked up adjoining vacant lot to hold onto and sell at a later date. While he was holding the lots he was what you would say loosing money on them, that was until he sold them at 3-5 times what he paid for them.

Collectables are for the rich to have and to look at. As has been mentioned, they go up and down in value and to make money on them you need to find someone who wants to purchase them at your price. Some people seam to fall into a stock or something and come out smelling like a rose, but if you want to make money you need to work at it. That along with being willing to go broke and start all over again.

They always say that the first million is the hardest to make and that is still true. I worked hard for 40 years, all the OT, holidays, and anytime else that they needed a body. I've been retired for almost 20 years and am living comfortably. My home was paid off in 10 years instead of 30. I pay cash for everything except for where I can get a loan at 0% interest such as a vehicle. Being financially set is not a easy job for a lot of us but it can be done.

If I had it to do over again I would start with the duplex family home back when I was in my 20's

 

[mdwest]

We should do this with land in Arkansas and/or Oklahoma.

Was just looking at a couple of 120 acre tracts in Arkansas this morning

 

[NDWoods]

Unsolicited advice...

Do not let this topic prompt anyone to indicate they purchased firearms with the intent of selling them to make money.

The ATF is no longer as weaponized as they recently were, but they have gone after people on forums for such statements because they said that was by definition an unlicensed dealer.

Do not let this sidetrack and no need to respond, just trying to look out for my fellow enthusiasts.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I'm sure I could have done very well playing the real estate game. But I watched what that did to Montana. I absolutely could not live with myself. It would kill me. Literally. Guess I love the outdoors too much. Is that possible?

 

[Hunt anything]

I'm sure I could have done very well playing the real estate game. But I watched what that did to Montana. I absolutely could not live with myself. It would kill me. Literally. Guess I love the outdoors too much. Is that possible?

Yep, seeing all of the farmland going into subdivisions and all of the gulf and bay front property going into high rise condos is depressing. People did get rich but at the expense of the people that enjoyed a laid back lifestyle.