Ammo Packing Question?

Mark Biggerstaff

Gold supporter
AH legend
Joined
Feb 28, 2017
Messages
2,899
Reaction score
8,695
Location
Texas
Media
259
Hunting reports
Africa
7
USA/Canada
1
Myself and friend will be hunting in 2019 in South Africa. Flying Delta, Atlanta to Johannesburg. We are planning on taking 3 rifles. Two in my name on 4457 and one in his. We were going to take 40 rounds for each rifle. Can we split it where we each have 20 rounds of each caliber in our bags incase one set of checked bags gets lost? All three are different calibers. I thought i had read somewhere you cannot take in ammo if its not a caliber listed on your 4457
 
Myself and friend will be hunting in 2019 in South Africa. Flying Delta, Atlanta to Johannesburg. We are planning on taking 3 rifles. Two in my name on 4457 and one in his. We were going to take 40 rounds for each rifle. Can we split it where we each have 20 rounds of each caliber in our bags incase one set of checked bags gets lost? All three are different calibers. I thought i had read somewhere you cannot take in ammo if its not a caliber listed on your 4457
Your locked ammo case inside the checked luggage is max at 11 pounds including the case. The caliber determines the number of rounds you can carry, but it can't be more than 11 pounds with the case. For example for 6.5 you can carry alot more rounds than .416 Rigby. You can't carry rounds in your Pelican type gun case for international flights, but you can within the U.S. on domestic flights. The caliber of rounds you carry are based on what you listed on your SAPS form, not a 4457. This information is for United and Delta.
 
Hello Mark;

To recap what you probably already know, my understanding is that for South Africa, at the current time (circa August 2018):
1) South Africa allows one person to import up to 200 rounds of ammo per firearm (maximum of 4 firearms, but not more than 1 firearm per caliber);
2) All airlines limit the ammo to 11 lbs (in practical terms this includes box & TSA lock, although it is not stated per se);
3) South Africa allows leaving the country with unfired ammo;
4) All South Africa airlines requires ammo to be checked separately from checked luggage on internal flights;
5) South African Airlines and US airlines allow ammo to be included inside checked luggage (not in the rifle case obviously) for international flights.

One is likely to reach 11 lbs, before the 200 rounds per gun count - unless bringing 22 lr ;-) I use a MTM Travel-Survivor dry box (size large) for the ammo, which I put in my duffel bag for international flights, and check separately in South Africa. Note the two empty slots. This resulted from weighing the box (including TSA lock) to come in at just below 11 lbs.

ammo.JPG


Following these generalities, and to answer specifically your question:
1) A person is legally prohibited from importing ammo for a rifle that this person is not importing. The SAPS 520 in this person's name will be considered proof of import. The firearms listed on the SAPS 520 much match those listed on the US Form 4457 in this person's name. Therefore, if my reading of the regulations is correct (?), your plan is TECHNICALLY ILLEGAL.
2) I have personally never seen an airline/border protection/immigration/airport security/police agent actually weighing or opening an ammo box, much less counting rounds or verifying cartridge headstamps. Therefore your plan COULD work.
3) There have been folks who reported being prevented from importing reloaded ammo with headtsamp not matching the caliber stamped on the barrel of their rifle. I am therefore assuming that a verification CAN happen.
4) I would personally not take the risk you are contemplating, as I see so many more potential downsides than upsides.

To avoid the painless arguing at customs, police, security, etc. I actually use Afton House to secure a pre-approved SAPS 520 which includes the number of rounds imported for each rifle, and to walk me at the international airport through the various customs, police, security, etc. upon arrival in SA.

I believe that it is $100 well spent (even if only in time saved) because I really have little patience for the haggling with misinformed or tip-chasing various "officials" and I HAVE been asked very directly for a tip by EVERY person who had to fill up paperwork for my rifles and ammo when I processed them alone without Afton in SA in August 2018 (arrival to and departure from East London, and departure from 'Joburg'). Everything went well but, bottom line, I would not even dream of putting myself willingly outside of the regulations/laws with firearms & ammo anywhere in Africa...

Just my $0.02
Have a great trip.

PS: take a stack of $5 bills to tip officials asking for it (even though it is technically illegal for them to do so), as $1 is not enough (they told me contemptuously), and I would certainly not tip $10 or $20 for the privilege of watching someone actually do nothing but their paid paperwork job!)...
 
Last edited:
Ok. I mis quoted myself. I meant that n SAPs form not 4457. Yes i know the 11 lb limit. Didnt know if I could list my ammo but some of it be in another persons bags is what i meant to ask. He will be listing a 7 mag and 40 rds of ammo. Myself 375 40 rds and 416 40 rounds.
But we wanted to split 20 of each rounds in each others bags incase one of our bags didnt make it we woukd have ammo for the guns. We both will be under 11lbs have already checked that
 
Ok. I mis quoted myself. I meant that n SAPs form not 4457. Yes i know the 11 lb limit. Didnt know if I could list my ammo but some of it be in another persons bags is what i meant to ask. He will be listing a 7 mag and 40 rds of ammo. Myself 375 40 rds and 416 40 rounds.
But we wanted to split 20 of each rounds in each others bags incase one of our bags didnt make it we woukd have ammo for the guns. We both will be under 11lbs have already checked that

Mark unless your rifles are odd calibers then most ammo is available in South Africa. So don’t worry too much.
 
I understand perfectly what you are asking Mark. The technical answer is simple: no.

As stated - maybe not clearly enough (?) - in my previous post, the paperwork custody chain is as follows:
  1. The US Customs & Border Protection form 4457 is considered by South Africa to be your US "gun permit." The firearms listed on your CBP 4457 are specific to you. Your name on the CBP 4457 must match your name in your passport.
  2. The purpose of the CBP 4457 is dual: i) upon arrival in SA it allows you to get a South African SAPS 520 (temporary import permit); ii) upon return in the US it allows you to get your firearms back into the country.
  3. The SAPS 520 lists the firearms you are temporarily importing and it lists the ammo you are importing. SA law prohibits you from importing ammo for a firearm that is not listed on your SAPS 520. Both firearms and ammo are specific to your name on the SAPS 520. Your name on the SAPS 520 must match your name on your passport.
  4. The luggage are checked under your name on your airline ticket. The content of your checked luggage is therefore linked to you and you alone. Your name on your airline ticket, therefore your checked luggage tags, must match your name on your passport.
  5. There are no provisions for "group" accommodations.
Bottom line: you are technically breaking the law if you are importing ammo for your buddy, even if he stands next to you and even if the compiling of his paperwork and your paperwork matches the compiling of firearms and ammo in your collective possession. Period. I would not do it...

My understanding is that even married couples register one firearm in the name of the spouse on both CBP 4457 and SAPS 520 so that the spouse can have custody of some ammo.

Is this logical? From a custody chain perspective it is unassailable. From a practical buddy's perspective it may not make a lot of sense, but your buddy having a driver's license does not allow you to drive if you do not have one, even if he sits in the car, correct?

I hope this helps ;-)
 
Got it. Thanks. I didnt think we could. But just wanted to make sure.
 
Myself and friend will be hunting in 2019 in South Africa. Flying Delta, Atlanta to Johannesburg. We are planning on taking 3 rifles. Two in my name on 4457 and one in his. We were going to take 40 rounds for each rifle. Can we split it where we each have 20 rounds of each caliber in our bags incase one set of checked bags gets lost? All three are different calibers. I thought i had read somewhere you cannot take in ammo if its not a caliber listed on your 4457
No sharing on guns and ammo. Plan as though you are going alone. Can you do it, maybe but let’s not go down that road.
Have fun.
Philip
 

Forum statistics

Threads
53,632
Messages
1,131,572
Members
92,695
Latest member
NickolasAr
 

 

 

Latest profile posts

Early morning Impala hunt, previous link was wrong video

Headshot on jackal this morning

Mature Eland Bull taken in Tanzania, at 100 yards, with 375 H&H, 300gr, Federal Premium Expanding bullet.

20231012_145809~2.jpg
 
Top