9.3X62 for Cape Buffalo?

Red Leg

Lifetime bronze benefactor
AH ambassador
Joined
May 19, 2009
Messages
6,542
Reaction score
18,811
Location
Texas Hill Country
Media
285
Articles
5
Hunting reports
Africa
2
USA/Canada
4
Mex/S.Amer
1
Europe
3
Member of
SCI DSC life memberships / NRA Patron Life
Hunted
Mexico, Namibia, RSA, Germany, Austria, Argentina, Canada, Mozambique, Spain, US (15 states)
It has worked pretty well for 100 or so guys that have the B&M family of wildcats. From plains game to all the way to elephants. The whole series of cartridges have been designed to be able to use shorter barreled rifles that perform while using standard length Win. model 70 actions with CRF. As mentioned above it provides about 20% more muzzle energy than a .375 H&H. BTW, the rifle with a wood stock is about 7.5 - 8lbs without a scope so very handy "to be lugging around".

You can find more info about the cartridge here:
https://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/458-B-M.html
Interesting read. Good luck with that. Can’t imagine any practical advantage in such a canon, but I look forward to the report (probably hear it from here ;)). Hope you plan to tip the hired help we’ll after touching it off a few times.
 

Tanks

AH elite
Joined
Aug 2, 2014
Messages
1,540
Reaction score
2,634
Media
48
Interesting read. Good luck with that. Can’t imagine any practical advantage in such a canon, but I look forward to the report (probably hear it from here ;)). Hope you plan to tip the hired help we’ll after touching it off a few times.

Actually, the perceived recoil of those calibers aren't that bad (more like a .375 H&H) due to Accurate Innovations stocks with aluminum bedding. I have used them in African hunts in the past. My elephants were taken with the 20" barrel .500 caliber version. Practical advantages are having a powerful cartridge in a compact package.

PS. I would not call a .458 caliber big bore a cannon either. It is not a .600 OK or a .700 NE.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 28, 2018
Messages
3,804
Reaction score
6,067
Location
Wyong new south Wales Australia
Media
8
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
SSAA
Hunted
Australia
:ROFLMAO::confused::confused::confused::eek::ROFLMAO:

You guys know more about calibers than I could ever imagine...........
IvW
I don't profess to know more than anyone, I am always willing to learn more. It is just stating what I acutely get out of my Whelen with choreographed real world velocities. I am sorry if my actual velocities don't correspond with your book velocities.
Cheers mate Bob
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2018
Messages
3,804
Reaction score
6,067
Location
Wyong new south Wales Australia
Media
8
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
SSAA
Hunted
Australia
my latest 35 whelen built by van patton on a 98 mauser action, i replaced the extractor so you have to work the shells thru the action(no single shell just dropped into the chamber) or drop the floor plate and follower to hold the bolt back after the last shot. two hundred yard four shot group with 225 sierra sp-bt bullets at 2600 fps, i pull the far right shot.

View attachment 341649 View attachment 341650
Leslie Hetrick
That's some dam fine shoot'n.
Cheers mate Bob
 

Gert Odendaal

AH legend
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
Messages
2,284
Reaction score
2,325
Media
884
Articles
1
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
SAJW
If I wanted to put more power behind a .375 projectile I think I would go with .375 RUM instead. It is designed as a hunting cartridge instead of a long range target cartridge. Not to mention the rifle is not going to weigh 18+ lbs or require a big muzzle brake. ;)
Tanks, the .375 Reminton Ultra Magnum....this is the caliber that use the 404 Jeffery brass just blown out a bit?? There is an interesting story behind where the RUM came from...it all started in Canada with a man by the name of Aubrey White...a born success story that failed due to poor brass quality and late deliveries:LOL::LOL:(y)(y)
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2018
Messages
3,804
Reaction score
6,067
Location
Wyong new south Wales Australia
Media
8
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
SSAA
Hunted
Australia
These are all arguments from people who do not master such big bore rifles and then try to talk others out of it. When you hear these people you also believe that the majority do not master such rifles. The same nonsense I've been reading for decades.

In reality , you can only argue for marginal cartridges if you have also tested the stronger ones , which you unfortunately can’t do if you don’t master these rifles , and really saw no difference. That is not the case , everyone will notice that the bigger one work differently , especially if something goes wrong.

I suggest that all PH use for backup a rifle caliber 9.3x62 for five years , and then we make a statistic , and after may be we can leave all rifles bigger caliber as 9,3mm or .375 aside.
kurpfalzjager.
I agree to a certain extent but not all of us can afford a large cal rifle or The cost of the ammo to feed it. When you pay in excess of $250 for 20 rounds and you need say 100 round to just start getting used to it that makes for some dam expensive practice.
I used to be able to handle a 360 and 378 Weatherby reasonably well. I could hit what I wanted at 120 yards offhand with them. Now days with a stuffed shoulder from a work injury my upper limit is a stoutly loaded Whelen or 9.3x62 with a muzzle brake.
Connie Brookes can shoot a 460 and not bat an eye doing it but a mate of mine can't take any more than a 223 for medical reasons.
If you can shoot the min cal for game accurately and are comfortable with it use it in preference to something you couldn't hit the side of a barn from the inside.
Just my 1 cents worth.
I don't begrudge anyone who can shoot a large cal WELL .
Cheers mate Bob
 

Gert Odendaal

AH legend
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
Messages
2,284
Reaction score
2,325
Media
884
Articles
1
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
SAJW
Trade -off on everything used by man....perfect shot placement + 9.3 x 62 /.375 H&H Magnum /416 Rigby/404 Jeffery ensures 100% success rate ...PH knows hunter is able to handle /shoot accurately this medium/large bore (y)(y) Buffalo hunt is enjoyable ...

Super bore 600 Nitro Express , bad shot placement/ hunter flinching due to not being proficient in using it only two hunts a year/ usually back up shots by PH /follow up by PH but the hunter still gets a lot of smiles, singing from Safari staff.. hunter contemplating what could have gone wrong....usually all the Dangerous game he hunted was one shot kills....PH is very considerate and smile while nodding his head and look at the bright shining stars...thinking what will go wrong tomorrow with his client and it`s super bore...:LOL::LOL: buffalo hunt turned out to be a dangerous follow up..close call ,
 

Tanks

AH elite
Joined
Aug 2, 2014
Messages
1,540
Reaction score
2,634
Media
48
...
I agree to a certain extent but not all of us can afford a large cal rifle or The cost of the ammo to feed it. When you pay in excess of $250 for 20 rounds and you need say 100 round to just start getting used to it that makes for some dam expensive practice.
I used to be able to handle a 360 and 378 Weatherby reasonably well. I could hit what I wanted at 120 yards offhand with them. Now days with a stuffed shoulder from a work injury my upper limit is a stoutly loaded Whelen or 9.3x62 with a muzzle brake....

The cost of a big bore rifle is the same as a smaller bore rifle in DG calibers. Heck, not counting the .500 NE my .375 H&H is the most expensive rifle I own (compared to .416, .458, .500). As a reloader the cost is a lot less than $250 for 20 rounds. Still not cheap as you are using a lot of powder and bullets at $1.75 ea. or so, but a lot more reasonable.

However, trophy fee on a buffalo is about $3K - 5K, an elephant is from $3K for a cull to $65K+ for trophy bull. Cost of wounding and not collecting is much, much higher than ammo prices even if one was just using factory ammo. So, if one is budgeting for a Safari, ammo costs for firearm expertise should factor into the budget. It would be stupid not to.

There is a reason the 4 day Safari shooting classes in Texas are always sold out almost a year in advance of the hunting season. A lot of people realize they need training with their big bores and do so.

Now, I understand due to physical limitations of using marginal firearms and don't have an answer for that beyond what you have stated.
 

Red Leg

Lifetime bronze benefactor
AH ambassador
Joined
May 19, 2009
Messages
6,542
Reaction score
18,811
Location
Texas Hill Country
Media
285
Articles
5
Hunting reports
Africa
2
USA/Canada
4
Mex/S.Amer
1
Europe
3
Member of
SCI DSC life memberships / NRA Patron Life
Hunted
Mexico, Namibia, RSA, Germany, Austria, Argentina, Canada, Mozambique, Spain, US (15 states)
The cost of a big bore rifle is the same as a smaller bore rifle in DG calibers. Heck, not counting the .500 NE my .375 H&H is the most expensive rifle I own (compared to .416, .458, .500). As a reloader the cost is a lot less than $250 for 20 rounds. Still not cheap as you are using a lot of powder and bullets at $1.75 ea. or so, but a lot more reasonable.

However, trophy fee on a buffalo is about $3K - 5K, an elephant is from $3K for a cull to $65K+ for trophy bull. Cost of wounding and not collecting is much, much higher than ammo prices even if one was just using factory ammo. So, if one is budgeting for a Safari, ammo costs for firearm expertise should factor into the budget. It would be stupid not to.

There is a reason the 4 day Safari shooting classes in Texas are always sold out almost a year in advance of the hunting season. A lot of people realize they need training with their big bores and do so.

Now, I understand due to physical limitations of using marginal firearms and don't have an answer for that beyond what you have stated.
I totally agree that cost of ammunition should be the last reason anyone does or does not opt for a particular caliber. However expensive it is, it is one of the least expensive variables on a DG game hunt. If one opts to use a .375 rather than .450 wonder stomper it should only be because it is a better choice - not a cheaper one. Whether to use a .375 or a big forty is the difference between choosing a rapier or a broadsword. Both were in vogue in the 18th century. I prefer the rapier, others a broadsword - in the hands of a competent hunter, both are equally lethal.
 

postoak

Silver supporter
Bronze supporter
AH fanatic
Joined
Dec 2, 2012
Messages
826
Reaction score
552
Location
Texas
Media
30
Articles
1
Hunting reports
Africa
2
Member of
Patron Life member NRA
Hunted
U.S.A., R.S.A, Namibia
We know that the 6.5 Mannlicher with solids will kill elephant, so discussing solids in calibers more powerful than that is pointless. Berger killed hundreds of buffalo with the .333 Jeffery, and, I think, with cup and core bullets so anything more powerful should work. Both it and the .338-06 push a 250 grain bullet to 2500 fps. But Berger used this to take buffalo at 200 - 250 yards and was a fine shot.

Oh, and I shot my first zebra with a .35 Whelen with 225 grain TSX bullets. It was a behind the shoulder shot and quartering, and the bullet didn't make it all the way through. If I was to take a .35 Whelen back to Africa for plains game I would use a 250 grain bullet.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 28, 2018
Messages
3,804
Reaction score
6,067
Location
Wyong new south Wales Australia
Media
8
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
SSAA
Hunted
Australia
The cost of a big bore rifle is the same as a smaller bore rifle in DG calibers. Heck, not counting the .500 NE my .375 H&H is the most expensive rifle I own (compared to .416, .458, .500). As a reloader the cost is a lot less than $250 for 20 rounds. Still not cheap as you are using a lot of powder and bullets at $1.75 ea. or so, but a lot more reasonable.

However, trophy fee on a buffalo is about $3K - 5K, an elephant is from $3K for a cull to $65K+ for trophy bull. Cost of wounding and not collecting is much, much higher than ammo prices even if one was just using factory ammo. So, if one is budgeting for a Safari, ammo costs for firearm expertise should factor into the budget. It would be stupid not to.

There is a reason the 4 day Safari shooting classes in Texas are always sold out almost a year in advance of the hunting season. A lot of people realize they need training with their big bores and do so.

Now, I understand due to physical limitations of using marginal firearms and don't have an answer for that beyond what you have stated.
Tanks
Physical limitations for recoil sort of put a limit on game size as well. If the biggest caliber I can handle is not adequate for the game the easy solution is for me just be happy to have had the experience of seeing it. I'll shoot it with a camera if my rifle won't handle it. If my rifle will handle it it is my obligation to do so ethically and humanely.
I feel the Whelen limits me to buffalo, cape and water as the absolute max with it.
Cheers mate Bob
 

Tanks

AH elite
Joined
Aug 2, 2014
Messages
1,540
Reaction score
2,634
Media
48
Tanks
Physical limitations for recoil sort of put a limit on game size as well. If the biggest caliber I can handle is not adequate for the game the easy solution is for me just be happy to have had the experience of seeing it....

A good friend of mine is retired Special Forces, a sniper among other things. He likes to hunt long range with his .338 Lapua. However, after 32 years of service his shoulder is a bit shot. He put two (2) 8 oz, Mercury recoil reducers in his buttstock. It is a gentle push rather than a slap now.

I bet you can go up in caliber if you do something similar.
 

Gert Odendaal

AH legend
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
Messages
2,284
Reaction score
2,325
Media
884
Articles
1
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
SAJW
I totally agree that cost of ammunition should be the last reason anyone does or does not opt for a particular caliber. However expensive it is, it is one of the least expensive variables on a DG game hunt. If one opts to use a .375 rather than .450 wonder stomper it should only be because it is a better choice - not a cheaper one. Whether to use a .375 or a big forty is the difference between choosing a rapier or a broadsword. Both were in vogue in the 18th century. I prefer the rapier, others a broadsword - in the hands of a competent hunter, both are equally lethal.
Redleg, you can forge the rapier to a beefed up sharp broad sword by shooting a 350gn -380 gn bullet from your .375 H&H Magnum Sir, it will makes you the pirate captain of your own safari ship(y)(y)(y):LOL:
 

Gert Odendaal

AH legend
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
Messages
2,284
Reaction score
2,325
Media
884
Articles
1
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
SAJW
Question: What is the rifling twist in the 9.3 x 62 from the different brands of 9.3 calibers?
What is the rifling twist of the 9.3 x 64 Brenneke?
If there are a difference /s what constitutes the differences in rifling twist in these calibers??
What is the rifling twist of a 9.3 x 74 cal Double rifle ?
 

Timbo

AH fanatic
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
966
Reaction score
1,879
Media
44
Hunting reports
Africa
3
Member of
BGRC PFRC & SSAA
Hunted
Australia (WA & NT), Zimbabwe, Zambia, South Africa
Just my 2c:

Last year, as many of you probably know, I landed in SA without ammo for either my 458 Win Mag or my 9.3x62. I could only source some 9.3x62 ammo - so had to use that for buff and PG. Having dropped all my previous DG with my 458, I admit I was sceptical of using the 9.3x62 - but everyone assured me it was a great calibre to use. In the end my buff presented a right frontal quartering shot, and went down with a bullet through the heart, and was found in the ribs on the off side.

Backed up by the PH's heavy calibre, I'd have no qualms if I had to do it all over again - which, to me, is the perfect reason for planning another buff hunt!! :)
 

Red Leg

Lifetime bronze benefactor
AH ambassador
Joined
May 19, 2009
Messages
6,542
Reaction score
18,811
Location
Texas Hill Country
Media
285
Articles
5
Hunting reports
Africa
2
USA/Canada
4
Mex/S.Amer
1
Europe
3
Member of
SCI DSC life memberships / NRA Patron Life
Hunted
Mexico, Namibia, RSA, Germany, Austria, Argentina, Canada, Mozambique, Spain, US (15 states)
Redleg, you can forge the rapier to a beefed up sharp broad sword by shooting a 350gn -380 gn bullet from your .375 H&H Magnum Sir, it will makes you the pirate captain of your own safari ship(y)(y)(y):LOL:
But why would I want to do that? The modern 300 gr is the perfect option for a buffalo at thirty feet or a Hartman zebra at nearly 300 yards. One rifle and one load. I'll stick with my rapier.
 

IvW

AH legend
Joined
Dec 20, 2016
Messages
3,546
Reaction score
6,811
Location
South Africa
Media
62
Articles
3
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
BASA, CHASA
Hunted
South Africa, Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Botswana, Namibia,Zambia
Question: What is the rifling twist in the 9.3 x 62 from the different brands of 9.3 calibers?
What is the rifling twist of the 9.3 x 64 Brenneke?
If there are a difference /s what constitutes the differences in rifling twist in these calibers??
What is the rifling twist of a 9.3 x 74 cal Double rifle ?

9.3 x 62-1 in 14.2
9.3 x 64 Brenneke-1 in 14.2
9.3 x 74R-1 in 14.2
 

Wayne t

AH veteran
Joined
Dec 20, 2016
Messages
178
Reaction score
101
Location
Manchester uk
Media
2
Member of
BDS
Hunted
U.K. Croatia
Just dug these out of one of the safes
Norma factory 275 solids for the 9.3x62 Professional guide ammo
Anyone else used these before ?

15F0D1E8-3C77-4D90-9033-376420926CDA.jpeg
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Gert Odendaal

AH legend
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
Messages
2,284
Reaction score
2,325
Media
884
Articles
1
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
SAJW
Just my 2c:

Last year, as many of you probably know, I landed in SA without ammo for either my 458 Win Mag or my 9.3x62. I could only source some 9.3x62 ammo - so had to use that for buff and PG. Having dropped all my previous DG with my 458, I admit I was sceptical of using the 9.3x62 - but everyone assured me it was a great calibre to use. In the end my buff presented a right frontal quartering shot, and went down with a bullet through the heart, and was found in the ribs on the off side.

Backed up by the PH's heavy calibre, I'd have no qualms if I had to do it all over again - which, to me, is the perfect reason for planning another buff hunt!! :)
Members, if any one of you experience the same challenge as Timbo experienced, please just pm /e-mail or call me so I can assist any forum member who travel through South Africa , JS Gunsmithing can supply you with much needed ammo..I will courier it to your over night destination or if you use OR Tambo airport I will deliver it to you in person...just let me know please(y)(y)(y)
 

Gert Odendaal

AH legend
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
Messages
2,284
Reaction score
2,325
Media
884
Articles
1
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
SAJW
9.3 x 62-1 in 14.2
9.3 x 64 Brenneke-1 in 14.2
9.3 x 74R-1 in 14.2
IvW, what bullet grain range can be utilise in the 9.3 x 62 through to the 9.3 x 74R???
Can I assume the 9.3 x 64 Brenneke magazine rifle has more foot/pounds than the 9.3x74R????
 

Forum statistics

Threads
37,304
Messages
711,008
Members
66,423
Latest member
horsedr
 

 

 

Latest profile posts

cal pappas wrote on Mnelson2's profile.
Nelson. Is this message a PM format. I want to send you my email, but don't know if this is the cirrect way to do it. I'm at <pappas@mtaonline.net> Send me an email with your phone and I will call you about a skull I have. I went to school in Boston and am from Bernardston in the west part of the state. Moved to Alaska in 1984 adn never looked back.
BeeMaa wrote on Justbryan's profile.
Sold a Blaser scope mount to him. He was a pleasure to do business with.
BeeMaa wrote on 375Fox's profile.
Sold a Blaser scope mount to him. Was a pleasure to do business with.
Tundra Tiger wrote on Alaska Luke's profile.
Hi Luke. Just saw your message. I am in Dillingham, and have been since 2002. I took an elementary teaching gig here, taught here five years, and then got a job with Togiak National Wildlife Refuge as their education and outreach specialist. Recently I just got a promotion and now I'm the Visitor Services Manager. Prior to DLG I spent 6 years teaching for Lake and Pen in Nondalton.
Serbian Hunter wrote on Tundra Tiger's profile.
Hi TT
I am glad you found some useful info in my posts. Hard cast WFN with GC will do the job fine. I trust Veral Smith (owner of LBT company) - I believe that he can provide you with some finest HC bullets. Many companies are coping his design. I can help you from here in developing max loads (40.000psi) just let me know which powder you are using (I use Quick Load software which turns to be very reliable).
 
Top