.470 NE Reloads and Fillers?

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by gxsr-sarge, Aug 17, 2012.

  1. gxsr-sarge

    gxsr-sarge AH Veteran

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    Hello All!

    I'm proud to announce that I've recently acquired a .470 NE Double (Krieghoff) for puposes of a buffalo/tuskless elephant hunt next year in Zimbabwe.

    Well, maybe I should have checked the ammo prices first!!

    I'll definitely be reloading over the next year for purposes of practicing and maybe taking one of those safari shooting courses. However, I'm having a hard time finding some good recipes for reloading the 470 NE so I have few requests/questions:

    - Can anyone share theirs?
    - I've never used a filler (aside from wads in shotgun reloading) so can anyone please explain how to use apply/use it (how much - when it hits the top?) which brand and where do I get it?
    - What is the best primer for this tame cannon?
    - And any other advice or information that you care to share.

    Many thanks!!

    Sergio
     

  2. Mike70560

    Mike70560 AH Elite

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    Sergio,

    A "standard" load for the 470 Nitro is either 89 grains of Reloder15 or 106 grains of IMR4831. Double check this data, never rely on loads from the internet.

    The IMR 4831 does not require a filler.

    For the Reloder 15 I stamp a 1" thick piece of foam by 1/2" diameter. Kynoch makes some pre-cut one but they are expensive.

    Federal 215s are my go to primers, but have used Remington Magnum Rifle with no issues.

    I like North Fork solids for elephants and North Fork Cup Points for buffalo.

    Start low on powder charge, use a chronograph. 2150 FPS is the gold standard, but velocity will determine how your rifle regulates. If it is crossing, slow down your velocity. If the spread is too wide speed up.

    Remember it is not a bolt gun. Do not hot rod your loads.
     
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  3. gxsr-sarge

    gxsr-sarge AH Veteran

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    Mike,

    Thank you very much for your input. It is exceptionally helpful. I 100% agree with the "reliance on the web" comment. I always try to cross reference any advice and ALWAYS start off on the low end of the spectrum.

    I plan to use factory ammo (probably Federal's 500 Gr Barnes XXX) during the actual hunt. My plan is to initially see how that ammo shoots and, if it regulates nicely, chrono that ammo. I was then planning, for purposes of purely practice, practice, practice, to load up similar rounds to that of Federal's (I know the POA, etc. may be a bit different due to the varying components).

    Now if the rifle hates the Barnes, I may have to start from scratch and then use my handloads for the hunt. The good news is that I have the 11 months to fuss with all of this.

    I already use both RL15 and IMR 4831 (who doesn't) but will most likely go with the later in order to spare the filler step.

    Thanks again,

    Sergio
     

  4. Mike70560

    Mike70560 AH Elite

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    There is a difference in felt recoil between the two powders. RL 15 will recoil less. The idea of the foam scared me at first but it is actually easy.

    Be careful on your bullet selection. I like the bore riders like North Fork and CEB. The Barnes is banded but the other two bullets will give less barrel strain. In a bolt gun that is not an issue. With the older English doubles some of the older monolithic solids could cause the barrels to separate. The K-Gun/Barnes combination should be fine.

    The K-Gun is stronger than hell, shoots different loads well, and I like the "safety".

    May you be as lucky with yours as I have been with mine.

    [​IMG]
     

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  5. gxsr-sarge

    gxsr-sarge AH Veteran

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    Interesting point regarding the felt recoil with the different powders. It's nice to that you have great things to say about the K-Gun. I have a K-80 for skeet and a Semprio in 30-06. I've become quite a fan of Krieghoffs. I've always admired the Classic Doubles and now have a great reason to acquire one for my hunt next year.

    That's a fantastic trophy with a handsome boss. I too hope I have similar luck!

    Thanks again.

    Sergio
     

  6. Hallgeir Gravråk

    Hallgeir Gravråk AH Veteran

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I also have a Krieghoff Classic in cal 470
    I have done a bit of testing my ammo.
    I tryed Barnes VOR-TX with 500 grs TSX, Vo 2150 fps this one spread to much (4")
    My best loads are with 500 grs Woodleigh Weldcore RNSN loaded with the Vhitavuori N-150 91,5 grs this gives a Vo in my rifle 2130 and the 2 bullets from both barells are in the same hole.
    This load are my first to go with on a Safari.
    I`m gonna try the A-Frame bullets with 90,0 grs N-150, I'm not using any filler in my cartridges.
    The N-150 are in the same burning rate as the H4350 and RL17.

    I also tried 106 grs Norma MRP and this was also spreading to much, I have some more to go before I reach the max load.

    Is there any of you guys that have some more input?

    The burning rate are from Vhitavuori Burning rate Chart. USE WITH CAUTIONS!!
     

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  7. Bullthrower338

    Bullthrower338 AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    I have never used fillers in my loads but @tarbe does routinely. We have been getting very good results with 118 grains of IMR 7977 pushing 500 grain A-Frames. No filler needed with this recipe.
    Cheers,
    Cody
     
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  8. Hallgeir Gravråk

    Hallgeir Gravråk AH Veteran

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    Did you get good groups with A-Frame?
     

  9. Bullthrower338

    Bullthrower338 AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    Yes sir.
     
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  10. CAustin

    CAustin AH ENABLER BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Ambassador

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    Sir,
    Federal also loads the 470 NE in a Woodleigh Hydro Solid.
     
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  11. rookhawk

    rookhawk AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    Friends, I'm always interested in "felt recoil" calculations.

    The formulas on the web consider the following variables:

    Bullet Weight
    Gun Weight
    Muzzle Velocity
    Powder Charge

    For my 470NE without the scope at 9lbs 12 ounces, it comes to 85lbs of recoil.
    For my 470NE with the scope at 11lbs 2 ounces, it comes to 75lbs of recoil.

    Help me understand this piece. Bullet weight 500gr. Gun Weight as above. Muzzle Velocity standard is 2150fps. The Powder Charge using IMR4831 is 106gr. For RL15 it is 89gr. Is that to suggest that a different powder will greatly adjust the recoil at the same velocity, weight of gun, and weight of bullet? Or are the calculators flawed?

    If I plug 89gr of powder into the calculator, it lowers the recoil to 75lbs and a VERY pleasant 66lbs respectively. This doesn't make sense to me so I assume the calculators are flawed?
     

  12. bruce moulds

    bruce moulds AH Elite

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    rookhawk,
    the calculators use a formula that includes powder charge as you say.
    from memory, the function of the formula squares the weight of the powder which makes for a bigger change.
    hawever recoil can to some degree be subjective, open to the individual's feel.
    with regards different burning rate powder in doubles, it is your friend.
    faster powder can cause more crossover and slower less crossover.
    the right burning rate will give the ideal crossover, or barrels shooting parallel.
    in my 450 x 3 1/4" one of the 4831s (cant remember could have even been ww2 powder) gave good regulation at ideal velocity.
    slower powder for the same velocity will give less pressure for the same velocity, a good thing in doubles.
    bruce.
     

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