458 Win Mag for deer and bear

[Riflecrank]

cajunchefray,

"What makes Stone bullets better?
Metallurgy, shape, design etc.?"

Yes.
No failures in the field have been reported from the 404-gr/.458 SH.
Batting a thousand so far.
Not even Fordy can tell me of any failures.

I have used it at 2350 fps MV to impact a small deer at 200 yards. DRT. Impact was 1950 fps, exited, on quartering shot. Broke three ribs going in, shredded chest contents with starburst of petals and rib fragments, remnant penetrator stub exited base of neck on off-side in a straight line.

I shot a +1500 lbs water buffalo cow at 50 yards with 2500 fps MV. Similar results. One shot kill, quartering chest to neck bullet stub recovered in neck after shredding chest contents.

gunner500 took a cape buffalo bull at 33 yards, one-shot kill passed through both shoulders broadside and exited, DRT.
MV again right around 2500 fps.

Hydehunter got the second cape buffalo bull taken with this bullet, very similar result, broadside shot and bullet exited.
One-shot kills on every critter taken with it so far.

 

[Riflecrank]

That 400-gr Woodleigh stunt was based on the Woodleigh manual data for the .458 Lott.
3.425" was the COL in a 2.8" case when the bullet was crimped on factory cannelure,
and 87.0 grains of H4895 was the maximum charge for the .458 Lott.
Woodleigh got 2570 fps from their test of the .458 Lott, assuming 24" barrel.
I got 2612 fps from the .458 WIN MAG, assuming 24" barrel.

I was actually playing it safe.
I knew that the .458 WIN MAG would have lower pressure with same bullet and powder charge
as long as it could be loaded to same COL as the SAAMI/CIP .458 Lott load in contention.
Maybe even faster MV and lower pressure ?
Not as crazy as it might seem to the unrepentant Lottites.
Throat.

 

[One Day...]

I recently picked up a Interarms Mark X rifle in 458 Winchester magnum. Since I’m not planning on going to Africa for a while, I was thinking maybe I’d use it this fall for whitetails and possibly black bear hunting.
Anyone got some good recommendations for reduced loads? I’d love to use cast bullets, as I have several bullets molds in that caliber I use for 45-70.
I’ve looked online and found some loads, but wanted to know if anyone here has done the same, and how did it go?
Thanks in advance for the help

I did not read the thread, so it may have already been said, but Barnes make .458 250 gr and 300 gr TSX specifically for the .45-70.

Probably not a ton of sectional density, but who cares for whitetail and black bear

A late friend of mine used to hunt deer in PA with a similar load (.458 Win / 250 gr bullet) and reported the devastating effect of an up-close 12 gauge slug, but with 200 yards accuracy.

 

[1dirthawker]

1dirthawker,
3.28" COL with the 404-gr Stone Hammer will work fine.

If 76 grains of H4895 gets you to 2450 fps in your 23.6"/600mm nominal 24" barrel,
try same amount of either AA-2230 or AA-2460 to get to 2500 fps.
No drop tube needed for that.

Working up to Benchmark charge of 76.0 grains might be tops at 3.28" COL with "standard" brass cases:
W-W, R-P, Federal, Hornady.
I bet that will get you past 2500 fps MV,
with short COL in standard brass.
Benchmark is a faster powder than any of those above, and with its smaller extruded grains than H4895 it will take up less space in the case than H4895.

Using the larger case capacity Norma-made brass case will make your 3.280" COL
like a 3.380" COL with the smaller, "standard" brass cases.

that is good info, thanks!

although, i have to shoot up what i have, or pull bullets and load with AA powder. i will try to locate some. that is a lot of dead bears if i shoot them all

pulling bullets and replacing the powder should be easier. hopefully i can find some powder, getting it shipped up here to me is a non starter. thanks again.

 

[Riflecrank]

1dirthawker,
I am forgetting about trying to get 78.0 grains of H4895 into a standard .458 WIN MAG case
with the 404-gr SH at 3.280" COL.
I did it at 3.380" COL and bulged the case.
Not so bad at 3.480" COL.
I will go ahead and fire these two examples:

About your rifle: Why so short a magazine.
My standard Whitworth Mark X .458 WIN MAG magazine box handles 3.380" COL very well with the 404-gr Stone Hammer.
If your mag box is so short, you might consider the Sunny Hill M98/FN/Whitworth mag box that has an internal length of 3.470".
Will not fit the Whitworth rifles opened at the factory for .375 H&H, as all that action opening is toward the front.
The Sunny Hill mag box for .300 WIN MAG and .458 WIN MAG is opened to the rear only.
Drop box for extra round is available too.

The ball powders will be easier to get to 2500 fps at 3.280" COL.
Try AA-2230 and AA-2460.
And I still need to try Winchester StaBALL Match, doggone it, I keep forgetting to do that.
Might be magic.
I am now reminded, thanks.

At 3.380" to 3.480" COL with standard brass and Norma brass, 2500 to 2600 fps is easy,
with multiple powders and a 24" barrel.

My 16.9"-barreled .458 B&M+ used the 404-gr SH at 2350 fps MV,
was zeroed at 200 yards where impact velocity is 1950 fps.
404-gr SH worked great on a deer at that range, dropped it on the spot where it was standing, exactly 200 yards away.
A big bear will make that bullet do the job from your 2425 fps MV to impact anywhere inside of 200 yards,
the closer the better, of course,
and the faster the MV, hence impact velocity, the better too, of course.
No top-end velocity limits on the 404-gr SH.

 

[1dirthawker]

@Riflecrank,

thanks for the input. i will look at the mag box, but, more than 2500 fps is not needed for this homeboy! i still have to shoot it, usually over a pack not sticks!

i will look for the AA powders when i get back to town ( i am bear guarding scientists around homer AK right now)

i will try to do a report if i am able to shoot a bear with the hammer bullets, but, my last client shot very well and did not need me to intervene. that's the funny part about guiding, never know when you are going to get involved and you have about 1-2 seconds to make the decision and act. @Scott CWO knows more about it than i, but, if you make the wrong call, you get to look for a wounded bear in the brush. there are things i would rather do, that's why i got a 458 win mag!