4457 Two owners

[davetexas]

I’m taking my wife and 3 kids, all minors, to Africa and we are bringing 4 rifles. Yes I’m nuts.

I’m planning on getting 4457 forms for all 4 rifles in my name as well as my wife’s. So I’m going to have 8 forms as I don’t think having both our names one one form will work nor is a good idea.

Any flaws with this thinking? The folks signing the forms won’t have an issue with this will they?

 

[BeeMaa]

You can only import 2 rifles per hunter (most countries) so placing both of your names on ALL the 4457's could be an issue. In addition to the possible paperwork confusion in the country you are traveling to.

You only need two 4457's.
One for your wife with 2 rifles and 2 scopes.
One for you with 2 rifles and 2 scopes.

There should be enough room for 2 rifles and 2 scopes on one 4457.
CBP doesn't care who actually owns the rifle.
Only who is in possession of it when coming back into the US.

Now wherever you are going will be a different story.
If it's South Africa you will need 2 SAPS520, one for each of you.
@riflepermits.com can also help you out and is an AH sponsor.


Edit - The 4457 is to make sure you didn't buy expensive items in another country and import them to the US without Uncle Sam getting his cut. This would also apply to things like binoculars, expensive watches and other such items with serial numbers and a high price tag. We didn't take expensive watches but did list our binos on one of our 4457's.

 

[Ike85123]

If all the rifles are in your name, make sure you have a notorized letting giving your wife permission to use the 2 rifles she is taking. Better to avoid an issue.
Better to let a company do the paperwork and permits for you !
There is some great options on AH !

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

I think CBP only lets you do 2 rifles on the 4457.

I don't understand your logic at all. Get two forms, one with two rifles for you and one with two rifles for your wife. If you are taking two guns of the same caliber, make sure you have one and your wife has the other.

 

[BeeMaa]

If you are taking two guns of the same caliber, make sure you have one and your wife has the other.

Good call.
Forgot about the "same caliber" rule.

 

[M McDindi]

Since you didn't specify what "country" in "Africa" you're going, as mentioned already, some limit the number of firearms that can be temp imported to two or three for each hunter.

Next is, most don't allow an individual hunter to bring two of the same caliber under their individual names. So.......i.e. you're bringing two 308 Win and two 30/06. Put one of each (two total) and one of each in your wife's name (two total). Also, make sure your outfitter/PH's "invitation/motivation letter has BOTH of your names on one letter or does a separate letter for each of you.

The main point of the US 4457 is, it is viewed as your "licence/permit" to own the firearm thereby allowing you to bring it into their country. Coming back, a 4457 just provided "proof" that you owned/possessed the item(S) (could be guns, camera's, computers, jewelry etc.) before you took them out of the country so you don't have to pay any import duty. An alternate for coming back in with an expensive item an alternative is just the original purchase receipt from a US store. A US receipt for a firearm will NOT get you into a foreign with said firearm.

 

[M McDindi]

I forgot to mention, I put optics (bino's and scopes) on separate individual 4457's. They are not needed to get anything into a foreign country but, if something gets lost/stolen at least you have some sort of "proof" that you had the item at some point and at least be able to provide verified item description with serial number for a police report.

It would also be a VERY good idea to double-check the requirements for entering an "African" country with minor children, even your own with both parents traveling with. You MAY need more than just a passport in their names if, they might be different from either of the parents. Last I read about RSA for example, IF one parent travels into RSA with a minor child, even with the same last name on both passports, you will still need a letter signed and I believe notarized from the other parent, granting permission for the minor child to travel with you. As long as all five of you, both parents and all three minors have the same last names on the passports, you might be OK. I did read something in the past about a notarized copy of the minor's birth certificate as well as P/P.

Yep, found it. I wasn't too far off. Entering/Transiting RSA with Minor Children

 

[M McDindi]

Too late to edit above. The requirements in the link above were changed in 2019. I helped a friend take his minor daughter to Namibia in 2015 with transits thru Jberg. He had to do the letter from the mother and birth cert stuff. Looks like just valid P/P's now.

 

[davetexas]

Luckily I'm not going to Joberg and am going through Ethiopia to Namibia. Per my agent In Ethiopia I have to show the 4457 to them when they look at the guns, quickly as I might add with only an hour layover. I'm hoping that I can do this for all 4 rifles so my wife doesn't have to run out there along with our 3 kids. Having 4457 forms with my name on them as well might help this as if they check the form and her name is on it she would need to come as well.

My question is can you put two owners of property on the same 4457 form and if not will CBP sign off on two separate forms with different owners of the same property. I'm going on Thursday so I will get the answers regardless. Knowing ahead will just prevent me from creating so many potential versions.

Great call out on two guns of the same caliber!

 

[M McDindi]

Dave:

I have not personally flown Ethiopian Air into Namibia. Have helped a few guys go thru Addis Ababa several times. I have to recommend that a 1 hour layover there is awfully tight. You might make the connection but luggage and firearms may not.

I've been into Windhoek literally dozens of times and very familiar with what they require. The US Customs Form 4457 is "recognized" by foreign governments as our "licence to own" the firearm even though technically it is not.

While you can put more than one firearm on a single 4457, the "license" (4457) can only have ONE person's name on it. Unless, something has changed in the last 6-months, Namibia allows each person to temporarily import a maximum of three rifles or shotguns. The rifles CAN NOT be of the same caliber. Minors, are not allowed to temp import firearms.

You can do a separate 4457 for each firearm, all under your name or some under your name and some under your wife's name, US Customs will sign off on as many as you want.

If you PM me your email address, I'll send you the worksheet you need to fill out to clear the NAMPOL OFFICE in Windhoek. If you have it filled out before you get there, you'll go the head of the line. I'll also send you the email link to the NAMPOL Office there that WAS valid before the Rona lockdowns. IF you email the worksheet(s), 4457, passports, invitation letter and airline ticket to them, they will have your temp import permit already filled out and done when you arrive.

Edited to add: IF you are just putting personal items like cameras, laptops etc. you can put two owners names on a 4457, just NOT firearms.

Michael

 

[M McDindi]

I've had several PM requests for the Namibian Temporary Firearm Import Worksheet. Again, this is just the worksheet the NAMPOL Officer uses to fill out you're actual permit.

This is the email address for the NAMPOL Office at the airport who do the actual permits. firearmairport@nampol.na I don't know for certain IF it is valid or not. I KNOW it worked up until the last time we were then in Aug 2019 and several years prior to that. I understand the terminal has been going thru some renovations too sooooo.....

If you fill out this form (one form for each person bringing firearms in), a copy of the importer's passport, 4457(s), and outfitter/PH invitation/motivation letter (each person's name requesting a temp import permit) to that address, HOPEFULLY, your temp import permit will be ready at the window where you collect your rifles. It's a small office between the Immigration desks and baggage carousel. IF they don't have your permit ready, they will do it by hand with carbon paper. You'll need to show the these same documents so have them ready. Be very patient. Their process is slow and inefficient by US standards, they are doing the best they can with what they have.

You will have to open your rifle case and they will compare the serial numbers and calibers and they can also look at the ammo head stamps but not always. Same on the way home.

DO NOT LOOSE the permit. You will need it to clear your firearms back out when you leave. Once you get to your quarters, lock it/them up in your rifle case. You don't have to carry them with you while hunting but, IF you are moving between properties via established roads you are SUPPOSED to have it with you.

One more note - no semi or full automatic long guns or any handguns are allowed.