404 jeffery vs 416 Rigby

IvW

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Yes, quality bullets are fine in big bores these days.

Of course, 6000 foot-pounds is easy for a 416Rigby. The impala shown in my post above was that way.
Here is a shot of sighting-in a rifle in the bush, over the bonnet/hood of a vehicle. Before my son and I went out walking and looking for an impala we sighted-in the rifle. I took one shot. Then my son took one shot with the same rifle.


We walked down a hundred yards to inspect the shots.

Well, that is good to go for a hunt. The bullet holes were kissing, though the rough edges don't show that. I dropped the Nikon two clicks for a lower trajectory. The scope tracks well. I don't like bullets rising over 3".

But more to the point, the Rigby handles those loads smooth as silk. The bullet in the same post with the impala picture shows the case with a nice primer and no brass marks on the case head. When cases slide right out they don't have pressure marks. Here is a another supporting picture for this post. It is a bullet from a buffalo, taken with the 416 Rigby at 110 yards. We had already bumped them twice and were able to find the bull grazing in the shadows. The Rigby did the job. An accurate rifle made that shot reliable. the picture shows all the cases used. The first shot, 416, made the buffalo sick, but we found him on his feet standing in a grass patch watching his back trail. I put a second into him from the side, parallelizing much of his body but leaving his head and neck thrashing. My son jumped forward with a 338 and put a bullet behind the head for lights out.

Look carefully at the primers of the Rigby cases on the left. Nice. The 338 may be a tad hotter, a 225TTSX at 2835fps, but still smooth easy bolt lift and reasonable primers. We load to the old book levels of 4000ft#. The 338WM is a light Tikka and is probably as heavy a load as that action should have.

In a modern rifle like a CZ, with modern cases like Hornady, and stable powders like R-17, and a great bullet like the 350gn TTSX, there is no reason not to load up to about 6000ft# (probably just under 60k psi.) Our last three Rigbys have all handled these loads like nobody's business.

That is great and from the target it is quite clear that both you and your son can handle the pressure and the recoil with this load. This is a good combination for the initial shot and also makes for a more versatile application for a client.

Personally I do not like lighter bullets in big bores and especially not for DG.

There seems to always be two schools of thought on this, the high velocity light bullet group and then the old school heavy for caliber at respectable velocity group.

Having to sort out the mess when things go wrong, often at extremely short range, I fall in the latter old school group.

If I owned a 416 Rigby, I would load 410 gr or even better 450 gr bullets @ 2200-2300 fps.

It is bullet momentum and straight line penetration from a premium grade bullet fired at respectable velocity that sorts out the nasties at close range rather than high velocity and foot pounds.

I have used such combinations too many times, with great success when the chips are down and do not see the need to change to lighter bullets.
 

375 Ruger Fan

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cmk, good to hear from you . It is Stewart core bonded bullets Hansie Minnaar ( owner of this brand) make for me. He draw any brass for any caliber. even obsolete calibers as well, any diameter bullet core bonded as well..at this stage I only hunt with Stewarts core bonded bullets..it served me well the last hunting season, I still need to retrieve one of these bullets , they all pass through ....I will make a frontal shot on a blue wildebees bull this coming hunting season to be able to retrieve a bullet....Dr. Kevin Robertson believe the ultimate buffalo killer combination is a 404 Jeffery shooting a 450gn bullet ...according to him it beats even larger bore calibers when comparing penetration tests......I am reloading 400 gn Stewart core bonded bullets currently..if I get a chance to hunt a buffalo I will use a 450 gn bullet from my 404 Jeffery...(y)(y)(y) Keep in mind it is only the Walter barrels we noticed this phenomenon of the .419 " bore diameter on the 404 Jeffery barrels...

cmk, yes it is a Walter barrel, ..
Here is an email I send to Walter company,
Hallo Andreas

Andreas, we used a Walter barrel purchased from your company to build a 404 Jeffery for a client. Shortly after completing the build the client started to shoot the rifle. He then phoned us and said he gets a lot of pressure even when he reload a medium load. We asked him to slug the barrel , it measured .418" diameter...I always thought Walter barrels for the 404 Jeffery measure .423"? Please let me know if this is possible..since then we measured two more Walter barrels in the 404 Jeffery caliber in the shop by slugging them and they measured .418 " as well???


I would like to hear from you regarding this scenario.


Regards


Gert Odendaal

South Africa

Reply from Andreas:
Good morning Gert,

our .404 Jeffery barrels should have bore-/groove-Ø 10,46mm/10,77mm or 10,45/10,75.

We do not have any barrels with 10,61mm (.418). Could you check what caliber has been ordered back then?
Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Sincerely Yours

LOTHAR WALTHER
Feinwerkzeugbau GmbH
Andreas Missler
At the end of the day I really do not care if it is a .419 " barrel I have, it shoots incredibly accurate and hit like Thor`s hammer on game...(y)(y)(y) It was just a phenomenon we encounter in the gun smith shop...(y)(y)

I thought I'd jump in here with a comment on 404 barrel dimensions. I recently ordered a barrel from Krieger for my 404 Jeff conversion project with a Win Mod 70, currently in 300 RUM. Krieger's data is a bore dimension of 0.413" and a Groove dimension of 0.424" with a 1-16 twist rate.
 

Rule 303

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Me personally would double check there isn't a typo there. Groves that are .011 deep and the grove diameter is spot on, seem to me, to be very deep.
 

geoff rath

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This is a truly fascination thread; I could read, and re-read it multiple times. Fascinating stuff.
We're looking at two cartridges (mainly) and the paper/data is danged close... one factor I have discovered,
Norma load 450 grain Woodleigh projectiles for both cartridges, with M/Vs an oompteenth apart. Should I have only one choice (of caliber) for D/G, I suspect either would keep me happy (and SAFE).
Am I being too presumptuous?
 

Rule 303

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This is a truly fascination thread; I could read, and re-read it multiple times. Fascinating stuff.
We're looking at two cartridges (mainly) and the paper/data is danged close... one factor I have discovered,
Norma load 450 grain Woodleigh projectiles for both cartridges, with M/Vs an oompteenth apart. Should I have only one choice (of caliber) for D/G, I suspect either would keep me happy (and SAFE).
Am I being too presumptuous?

No(y)
 

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