.375 should be banned from buffalo hunts!

[Alchemist]

I would stongly advise to aim for the vitals next time and not the tip of the tail.

 

[Creigh]

That thread is also on this website and was really a constructive debate by Cris. See for yourself and try to construct your own opinion. When the good stuff doesn't work

To each his own. Banning. 375H&H from Buffalo hunts or quartering away shots with monolith bullets is great for driving traffic to Facebook but for goodness sake, let's not give regulators any more ideas.

Why not just have a productive conversation instead of winding everybody up?

 

[BigGame]

The legal minimum caliber per African countries by law is .375 for cape buffalo. That doesn't mean you have to bring a .375 and ohh boy do I have a few of those... In my limited experience, as a hunter, bring a .4XX and you won't be disappointed I hunted with .375, .416, and 458. The later two performed extremely well in real world experience compared to the performance of .375. Just my data point for this conversation

 

[DieJager]

To each his own. Banning. 375H&H from Buffalo hunts or quartering away shots with monolith bullets is great for driving traffic to Facebook but for goodness sake, let's not give regulators any more ideas.

Why not just have a productive conversation instead of winding everybody up?

I'm referring to the other thread on the failures of monolithic bullets when quartering away. That was a great thread to be honest. No winding up that I detected there.

This thread derailed as soon as it was started due to a bad translation, trolling, different cultures or all of the above or a combination of them.

 

[grand veneur]

To each his own. Banning. 375H&H from Buffalo hunts or quartering away shots with monolith bullets is great for driving traffic to Facebook but for goodness sake, let's not give regulators any more ideas.

Why not just have a productive conversation instead of winding everybody up?

We tried it, but without the interference of some members who for many reasons misinterpreted a lot, it might have worked.

 

[Art Lambart II]

I own three DG rifles, all are classic African calibers, a 416 Rigby, a 375 H&H and a 9.3x62. All these rifles were given to me by my father @Shootist43 (No, he is not looking to adopt any more kids so don't ask). In 2024 I used the 416 Rigby on my first and only Cape Buffalo hunt, and I plan to use one of the other two for Cape Buffalo in 2027. I love the 375 H&H for its versatility, IMO it is the best all-around African round ever developed. However, in most places it's the building code of DG rounds, by that I mean the minimum acceptable standard, you can live in a house built to the minimum standard your whole life and be happy, but a house that exceeds the standard is always better in the long run. I would never propose banning the 375 H&H as a DG round, but I do agree with the OP that the 416 Rigby is a better choice for GD provided you can manage the recoil and still shoot accurately.

So why am I planning to use the 375 or the 9.3 on my next buffalo hunt? My 416 Rigby is a fine Ruger #1and is a great client gun except for one circumstance, a charge. On my first Buffalo hunt my PH and I were charged at 7 yards, at my PH’s first shot the buff turned and did not press home his attack. I know the odds of me firing two shots from a bolt gun in the time it takes a charging buff to cover 7 yards is very slim, but I have no chance whatsoever with a Ruger #1, so I’m opting for a bolt gun on my next DG hunt. Who knows, if MRC starts making LH rifles in something larger than the 375 H&H, say a 404J I may buy one of those and use it in 2027.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

I had the same feeling because of various reports on other Forums from Australian hunters about buffalo kills with cartridges that I would consider marginal for shooting heavy wild boars.

I shot few water buffalo in Malaysia with the cartridge 9,3x74R and FMJ bullets, which was not particularly difficult. They were above all problem animals that caused insecurity in the oil palm plantations bordering the jungle, but only one was particularly aggressive. They were big wild buffalo, but in all likelihood also following the Australian model, meaning buffalo that had become feral a long time ago. In Southeast and South Asia, the transition from tame to wild water buffalo has been fluid for thousands of years. This perhaps can explain some of their behavior and their lack of toughness compared to their wild African cousins. In South America it will be comparable.

Same species, no ? We culled these with the Department issued .303 British Lee Enfield and army surplus POF (Pakistani Ordinance Factories) 174Gr spitzer tipped copper jacketed FMJ military ball.

 

[grand veneur]

Apparently, there are still a few very limited isolated populations of authentic wild water buffalo in some areas of south and southeast Asia, but this is very difficult to prove scientifically. Another but very interesting topic.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Police use them in Brazil right ?

View attachment 710145

@Skshyk
They would be brilliant for crow control.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Same species, no ? We culled these with the Department issued .303 British Lee Enfield and army surplus POF (Pakistani Ordinance Factories) 174Gr spitzer tipped copper jacketed FMJ military ball.
View attachment 711832View attachment 711833View attachment 711834View attachment 711835View attachment 711836View attachment 711837

@Hunter-Habib
How would you rate the temperament of the Indian buffalo/Gur compared to other Buffalo.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Its funny, most of the PH's in Africa recommend a 375 for a client on DG.... You know, the guys that do this for a living....

@revturbo9967
I would say that's because they know 90% if shooters can't handle anything bigger. Most hunters have never shot anything bigger than a 338 win mag and the thought of something with a four in it ( apart from a 243, couldn't resist that one.) scares the living daylights out of them
Bob

 

[375Fox]

@revturbo9967
I would say that's because they know 90% if shooters can't handle anything bigger. Most hunters have never shot anything bigger than a 338 win mag and the thought of something with a four in it ( apart from a 243, couldn't resist that one.) scares the living daylights out of them
Bob

In part, but it’s also proven very effective. It’s also a rifle better suited to a scope and much more versatile for any PG that steps out.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

The irony of all this is that I agree with you 100%. The 375 kills buffalo, it's been doing it for over 100 years, and I've killed over a hundred of them with my Sauer 202 in 375 HH, huge animals and at every distance you can imagine! My point is: the 416 kills better, is more efficient and safer. And here I am being crucified for saying that!

@Crishuntbrasil
It's like anything in life, bigger is usually better but only up to a certain point.
If you can't utilise it or use it to its full potential then size becomes a mute point.

Yes practice with bigger rifles will get you used to them but the average blue collar hunter can't afford the cost of the ammo or rifle to get the practice.

In Australia a box of 458 win mag will set you back from $150-200/20 depending on the brand. The rifle may only be 1,500 2nd hand but at the price of ammo if not a reloader it becomes prohibitive.
I know some one that bought a .500 Nitro $20,000 to hunt buffalo in Australia, ammo was $30 per shot. After 100 shots he was used to it and loved it. This person was very well off financially but it was well above my pay grade.

I will never begrudge or belittle anyone who wants to own and use such rifles.
Unfortunately I'm not in the same financial league as some and only have a working man's beer income.
My biggest rifle is my Whelen that I would quite happily take on buffalo with. I have shot far bigger calibers and am not overly bothered by them ( apart from the 460 Weatherby).
The most pleasant big bore rifle I have shot was @bigboymelvins 425 express. To me that would be ideal for anything that walks with the appropriate projectiles.
Bob

 

[Flewis]

@revturbo9967
I would say that's because they know 90% if shooters can't handle anything bigger. Most hunters have never shot anything bigger than a 338 win mag and the thought of something with a four in it ( apart from a 243, couldn't resist that one.) scares the living daylights out of them
Bob

100% Bob, and if it has two 4s it would be a 244. My little niece said when she shot 375 that she liked it because it had no recoil.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

@Hunter-Habib
How would you rate the temperament of the Indian buffalo/Gur compared to other Buffalo.
Bob

Bobby,

I would personally rank Gaur as the most dangerous out of all the wild bovines which I’ve hunted in the entire world (to date). Because they actually have the ability for tactical planning and staging the most unexpected ambushes (esp. in densely vegetated terrain). They can actually stalk you for hours (up to three at least, in my humble experience) without you even realizing that a 3000 pound bovine is following you. And are the most liable to attack you completely unprovoked.

Followed closely by the Thai Seladang.

Out of the 46 Asian water buffalo which I’ve personally culled in 1979… I only faced one charge (a wounded bull which technically wasn’t charging me but I simply happened to be in his way while he was attempting to escape six of my forest guards who had opened fire on one of the herds in the other side of the island). None of the others particularly gave me any trouble. Although ill tempered specimens are known to kill people now & then (which is why the Ministry Of Forests sanctioned the feral water buffalo cull in Kukri Island in 1979), they lack the cunning of the Gaur & Seladang. Despite being bigger than an African Cape buffalo, they are nowhere as aggressive or intelligent since I’ve observed most of their charges to be provoked spur-of-the-moment frontal attacks. Although (like all bovines) the sight & smell of blood greatly heightens their aggression.

 

[CoElkHunter]

@Crishuntbrasil
By all means throw the lion in as well.
Countless lion have been killed with a 30-06 and good old 229gn rnsps to go with it.
Next you will be wanting to include warthog as they have killed people as well. Just ask a friend who was attacked by a supposed pet one in camp over a morning coffee. He spent a long time in hospital recovering.
By nature our sport is dangerous we accept that every time we hunt be it deer, pigs of or DG. All have killed people. Does that mean we should all use bigger calibers.
Asking for a friend.
Bib

Well Bob, I would imagine that regardless if that warthog was a pet or not, your friend giving him coffee in his bowl in the morning probably wasn’t a good idea? Too much caffeine in the morning can affect people and warthogs and make them aggressive. That’s why I don’t shop at Wal Mart until later in the day. LOL

 

[Flbt]

Bobby,

I would personally rank Gaur as the most dangerous out of all the wild bovines which I’ve hunted in the entire world (to date). Because they actually have the ability for tactical planning and staging the most unexpected ambushes (esp. in densely vegetated terrain). They can actually stalk you for hours (up to three at least, in my humble experience) without you even realizing that a 3000 pound bovine is following you. And are the most liable to attack you completely unprovoked.
View attachment 711943
Followed closely by the Thai Seladang.
View attachment 711944

Out of the 46 Asian water buffalo which I’ve personally culled in 1979… I only faced one charge (a wounded bull which technically wasn’t charging me but I simply happened to be in his way while he was attempting to escape six of my forest guards who had opened fire on one of the herds in the other side of the island). None of the others particularly gave me any trouble. Although ill tempered specimens are known to kill people now & then (which is why the Ministry Of Forests sanctioned the feral water buffalo cull in Kukri Island in 1979), they lack the cunning of the Gaur & Seladang. Despite being bigger than an African Cape buffalo, they are nowhere as aggressive or intelligent since I’ve observed most of their charges to be provoked spur-of-the-moment frontal attacks. Although (like all bovines) the sight & smell of blood greatly heightens their aggression.

I have helped put water buff and American bison back in pens after a hurricane.
I thought I was going to have to shoot the bison the wb were about like high strung cattle ( like Brayford, Brahma, and such)

Yes I know ones usto people are not like there wild brothers but the wb did not scare me the bison did. And yea a 44 a big handgun but it sure doesn’t look like much with that pawing the dirt and shaking it’s head at you at less than 10 feet

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Considering the respected very experienced hunters here, the .375 is entirely useful in the hands of a practiced hunter.
I practice with the 375 H&H and the 458 Win Mag loaded to 404 Jeffery levels.
Read @Red Leg threads, and many others, there is much to learn.

This informative thread has led to questions:
Why is the Buffalo hunting in Brasilia during Carnival? Breeding period?

In New Orleans Carnival, we hunt parades and beer.

Naming the Buffalo sub species after hurricanes is unique.

Given that today is the 20th anniversary of Hurricane Katrina, the hurricane that devastated New Orleans, killed 1500+ people, destroyed over 80,000 properties, required tens of billions of USD to put it back together, and crushed the lives of tens of thousands of people and businesses, Buffalo naming after a hurricane is a unique endeavor.

Can you post some articles from the Brazilian government ministries, or universities that document the vast presence and destruction caused by buffalo in the North of Brasilia?

@cajunchefray
Mate I've been informed by sources that shall remain nameless that during the New Orleans festival period the COUGARS become particularly active and aggressive because it is peak mating season for them.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

@Crishuntbrasil You obviously missed something in the translation. It was actually a compliment. Get a sense of humor.

Certamente pode haver algum filho da puta aqui e você simplesmente decidiu entrar para o clube.
Este é um fórum internacional e a maioria tenta lidar com as diferenças culturais e questões linguísticas.
Decidir chamar o moderador de nomes depreciativos não é a atitude mais inteligente da sua parte.
Sugiro que você desenvolva um senso de humor melhor.
Daqui para frente: Chega de xingamentos, etc.

@BRICKBURN
Translation please.
Bob

 

[grand veneur]

We are getting a bit off topic, but the discussion started also with hunting water buffalo in Brazil.

As for the Gaur, I have only seen one in the wild of the Malaysian Peninsula, but on the picture below from @Hunter-Habib post, it is in my opinion a Gayal. I know the term Seladang from Malaysia, where the Gaur is called that.