.333 O.K.H.

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

View attachment 745569
Sorry. This was supposed to be attached to my post.

@DG870
Still runs a couple of hundred fps behind the Whelen with the same weight.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I don't recall seeing/reading any actual chronographed velocity data for the old Winchester 300 gr load for the .338 Win Mag but, I think around 2450 fps MV is feasible. Of course, that doesn't mean that the old factory load achieved the advertised muzzle velocity.

Recall that the .333 Jeffery (rimless) was renowned for its 300 gr bullet load. Kynoch listed that load at 2200 fps MV from a 28" barrel. (Velocity data from my reprint copy of the 1936 Kynoch/ICI catalog.)

.333" dia, 300 gr: sectional density = .386

.338" dia, 300 gr: sectional density = .375

.358" dia, 310 gr: sectional density = .346


View attachment 745762

source:
https://sierrabullets.com/content/load-data/rifle/338/338-winchester-magnum.pdf
https://sierrabullets.com/load-data/


Just my two cents... Cheers! Bob F.

@BFaucett
Let's see the data on a 300gn round nose instead of a nice pointy match king.
That would bring the big powder chewing, bitch slapping fire breather back down to earth.
The Whelen achieves 2,455 fps with the 310 using 12 grains less powder and less than 51,000 cup of pressure.
There fire young Watson I conclude the Whelen is a more efficient user of powder for the same results with bullets of the same design.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I agree, I also don't understand how they were able to get 2400fps out of a '06 case...

And did they?

I mean, I can't imagine chronographs being that plentiful back then, how did they actually determine that velocity?
Did they actually have access to a chronograph?

And if they did have access to a chronograph, once again, how did they manage to get that velocity safely?

I also agree with you on your point when you ask why aren't people doing it now with their .338-06 etc...
We have better powders now so has the only thing changed that chronographs are now so accessible?

I have been hunting, shooting and reloading now for a long time. And in that time I have heard many, many claims of what people have said about their 'pet' loads...
I'm in the camp now where unless it is shot in front of me - with my chronograph, I take it all with a grain of salt.
On more than one occasion my chronograph has hurt someone's feelings...

Elmer Keith is certainly a legend, but I'm sure like all of us he had his prejudices, his likes and his dislikes.
And like the rest of us I'm sure he wrote more favourably about the things he liked as opposed to the things he disliked.

Of course this is all just my 0.02...

Russ

@Badboymelvin
If'n y'all want chronoed proof check my post with the 310gn Woodleigh rnsp
Seeing is believing.
You have to try my Whelen on Sambar one day mate.
Pick the time and place and I will be there with it for you.
But I want it back after you try it.
It's an eye opener for those that haven't used one.
Bob

 

[rookhawk]

I went down a bit of a rabbit hole on this topic and am sharing what I learned.

When O, K, and H were doing their testing, they had a high opinion of the 333 Jeffery and were trying to reproduce its capability on off the shelf American actions. They also wanted to avoid the long delays of getting bullets from ICI/Kynoch in England as the only global maker of .333 bullets at the time.

They approached Vernon Speer and asked him to make a better bullet for their purposes. Speer couldn’t see the demand justifying a myriad of bullet options, so instead of making 250gr and 300gr hunting bullets like Kynoch, he made .333 bullets in 275gr that would satisfy 333 Jeffery owners, and also the desires of OKH as they were developing their cartridges.

If you’re curious to see what these very rare bullets look like, I happen to have 2+ boxes in the classifieds section at present.

In the modern era, there were two sources remaining for .333” bullets. Woodleigh, who hasn’t produced their 250gr and 300gr softs, nor their 300gr solid since before the fire, and hawk bullets who made a soft occasionally when there was enough demand. The problem with the Hawk bullets is they use .025” copper jackets over soft lead, and thus they were not of the same integrity as the old Speer bullets, nor the Woodleigh bullets. It effectively neutered the capability of the 333 Jeffery and 333 OKH to whitetail-sized animals if using the Hawk bullets that are on the flimsy side.

 

[PerH]

I believe Winchester used the .338 caliber because they already had a lot of bullets on hand for some other now defunct cartridge they were selling in years prior to the .338 win mag being released. The .338 was an otherwise unused caliber in that day. Since becoming popular with the long range crowd, .338 caliber is ubiquitous now, but wasn't so in the 50's. Basically, Winchester make a business decision based on available inventory and tooling at the time and that's why we have the .338 win mag and not the .333 or .325 or .358 win mag instead.

I'm a big fan of the .338 winchester, I'd have no concerns hunting anything on earth with one with the proper bullets. I've also found it very easy to load for. So far, I haven't found a reload recepie yet my rifle doesn't like, even trail boss loads!

Winchester earlier had chambered the 1886 Lever in .33 Win , their first true .338

200 grain FN an and Fmj . Bottlenecked case , not so many users but Ernest Schakelton carried it with him to the arctic as one of his rifles . So .338 and arctic is a good choice.

 

[dgr416]

I have 600 about half 300 gr and half 200 gr .333 bullets that came with my rifke .Connie brooks said Fred Barnes made them when he came to stay with them a while .I have a bunch of 275 gr speer .333 bulkets Elmers favorite weight bullet for the .333 and .338 .I gotta get a recoil pad and scope mount fixed so I can shoot this rifle again.I shot it with the rotten pad it was terrible to shoot .I gotta figure out what pad to use .It looks like its glued and screwed .

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I have 600 about half 300 gr and half 200 gr .333 bullets that came with my rifke .Connie brooks said Fred Barnes made them when he came to stay with them a while .I have a bunch of 275 gr speer .333 bulkets Elmers favorite weight bullet for the .333 and .338 .I gotta get a recoil pad and scope mount fixed so I can shoot this rifle again.I shot it with the rotten pad it was terrible to shoot .I gotta figure out what pad to use .It looks like its glued and screwed .

@dgr416
The recoil pad I like on my rifles that generate a bit of kick are limbsaver magnum recoil pads. Firm yet squishy and really take the bite out
Bob