30-06...again

[ElevenBravo]

We are talking about the thirty-by-gawd-oh-six! Enough gun for any plains game animal that walks the bush. Keep the shots broadside and under 250 yards. (Btw…in Africa, the same applies to any caliber you might choose.) Use a “premium” 165 or 180 grain bullet. Nosler, Swift, Barnes, Northfork, etc. As most hunters know, she’ll never feel the recoil when she lays one into a Golden Wildebeest….or any other game animal.

Is 2400fps enough zoom for a 180 on a blue wildebeest?

 

[375er]

Is 2400fps enough zoom for a 180 on a blue wildebeest?

Yes depending on the shot distance.

 

[dogcat1]

Some serious over thinking going on here. Shoot what the gun likes - 150's, 180's or 168's. I shoot them all. Trust what your outfitter says.
I have been to Africa to 11 countries and 15 hunts. I have used nearly any and all bullets and calibers from .243 Win to .416 Rigby. Shot placement is number one. Hit the heart/lungs and it dies. End of story. Hit the spine or brain, it dies. End of story.
A .30-06 is good for any and all game up to buffalo. My recent PH told me that he had taken ele with a .30-06 using 220 solids many years ago. Yes, I know that is not a good idea, but that is what he had in his hands when confronted.

So, do not over think this.... Spend your time and money on optics and getting close. I have taken 6 to 8 wildebeast, my son's as many as well. All taken with .270. .280. .300 H&H and one with 7mm Rem Mag. We used a variety of standard factory ammo - some of it bought in Namibia and RSA. All died.

 

[BourbonTrail]

I used a 308 with factory 180gr Hornady SSTs and killed a wildebeest just fine with a heavy quartering on shot. It’s listed as higher than 2400 fps, but it is a much softer bullet.

Wildebeest are tough, but they aren’t tanks.

 

[Ryan]

I have used a 30-06 with 168 Barnes to drop kudu, zebra and a few other Plains Game. I would use the 150s too without any worries. Heck, people drop wildebeest with 270s shooting 150 grain core and cup and bonded bullets and the 150 grain Barnes beats those hands down for weight retention. Put it in the right spot and that'll be a dead wildebeest.

 

[Doug3006]

Is 2400fps enough zoom for a 180 on a blue wildebeest?

Yes. Inside 250 yards. Have you considered Nosler Partitions? I think a lot of people write them off because Swifts, TSXs and the like are much better for dangerous game. For plains game, Partitions are deadly and not as velocity dependent as TSXs.

 

[ElevenBravo]

Some serious over thinking going on here. Shoot what the gun likes - 150's, 180's or 168's. I shoot them all. Trust what your outfitter says.
I have been to Africa to 11 countries and 15 hunts. I have used nearly any and all bullets and calibers from .243 Win to .416 Rigby. Shot placement is number one. Hit the heart/lungs and it dies. End of story. Hit the spine or brain, it dies. End of story.
A .30-06 is good for any and all game up to buffalo. My recent PH told me that he had taken ele with a .30-06 using 220 solids many years ago. Yes, I know that is not a good idea, but that is what he had in his hands when confronted.

So, do not over think this.... Spend your time and money on optics and getting close. I have taken 6 to 8 wildebeast, my son's as many as well. All taken with .270. .280. .300 H&H and one with 7mm Rem Mag. We used a variety of standard factory ammo - some of it bought in Namibia and RSA. All died.

I really don't believe this is overthinking it. I have multiple contradictory sources of information and trying to square them away. Unfortunately, when I asked my PH I got an unhelpful canned response.

It's really a simple question: I have 2 handloads: Bullet A travels at B velocity. Bullet X travels at Y velocity. Will either work? Seems hard to get a definite answer.

 

[45-70guy]

On the advice of this forum, I changed out the handloads for my wife's -06 from Barnes 180gr TSX @ 2400fps to a 150gr TSX @ 2900fps as the goal was to reach that velocity to produce reliable expansion while making the recoil manageable and she can consistently put shots where needed. Her primary target is a golden wildebeest which is a relative of the blue, and they are considered to be rather tanky. After watching a few videos and interviews with PHs on Youtube and reading some previous threads here, it seems like a heavier bullet is preferred. I emailed the outfit I'm using asking about bullet weight and velocity and got a canned response "180gr Swifts are our preferred bullet, Barnes second" but no mention of velocity.

Now, there's no way of propelling a 180gr Barnes out of an -06 to 2900fps that wouldn't turn the gun into a pipe bomb. According to Barnes' reloading data, I was getting almost max velocity for a 180 using H4985. Other common powders aren't getting much more velocity gains. I could get somewhat near 2900fps with 165gr but using powder that I don't have ready access to and unsure if I could get enough anyway.

So here's what I know:

• yes, shot placement matters, but shot placement alone isn't the only factor
• Despite good shot placement, you need to be able to hit the vitals for placement to matter which brings us to...
• Sectional density matters for penetration, that's why PHs are asking for 180s. The SD between the 150 and 180 aren't that much different (.226 vs .271)
• which brings us to velocity. KE = .5mv^2 so velocity is a huge part of the kinetic energy equation, more input than bullet mass.

Now, I've done the calculations, and Barnes' recommended minimum velocity for reliable expansion for the TSX line is 2000fps. For the 180gr @ 2400, that gives me 250 yards of distance which is more than twice what my outfitter says the typical engagement range is for where we are hunting. I'm not sure why someone said I have to have the -06 going at 300Winmag velocity, probably my fault for taking that statement at face value.

So I'm looking for good recommendations here for a 30-06 load or performance parameters that can be fired by a 110 pound woman that stands a good chance of flattening a golden wildebeest. Will a 150gr Barnes @ 2900fps drop one? Will a 180gr @ 2400fps do it? Do I need bullets tipped with lead azide? At this point, I'm ready to just have the Ruger melted down and have her use my 7Backcountry.

You need to talk to Alan from Barnes to get an exact velocity window. The 2000 fps is a general rule of thumb.
The .358 225g TSX expands 1.7x at 1600 fps and 2.0x expansion at 1700-1800 fps.
Each bullet is heat treated specifically for a certain cartridge in mind.
The 168g was designed for the 308-30/06
The 165g for the 300 Win. Velocities obviously widely differ in those calibers.
Just send an email to Barnes and give them your exact info and concerns they are very helpful on these topics where many people just speculate. Best to ask the source
Id have to go back into my emails with them but I know I’m running a 168g in my suppressed 308 and it’s good to 400 with a 16” barrel.
Even though I probably will never shoot it that far.

 

[ARHinAK]

First of all a 150 Barnes 2900 will absolutely flatten a wildebeest as far out as normal people need to be shooting them.
My personal favorite out of my 30-06 is the 168 TTSX that has a minimum operating velocity of 1500 fps sitting on top of a charge of H414 for a velocity of a bit over 2800 fps.
Very nice trajectory and pretty mild on the shoulder. That bullet was made for the 30-06!
Nothing is particularly hard to kill if you put a good bullet where the animal lives.

 

[SFRanger7GP]

Before I could talk Mama into using her 275 Rigby for hunts other than a comfortable deer stand, she shot my 30-06. She practiced with the Remington or Hornady light 30-06 factory loads. When we went hunting, I loaded the rifle with factory Barnes 180gr TTSX ammo. She has killed a lot of plains game with that and never knew the difference.

Safe hunting

 

[ElevenBravo]

Yes. Inside 250 yards. Have you considered Nosler Partitions? I think a lot of people write them off because Swifts, TSXs and the like are much better for dangerous game. For plains game, Partitions are deadly and not as velocity dependent as TSXs.

I have 2 boxes of 165gr Partitions and for some reason 8 boxes of 165 and 180gr Accubonds laying around. Must have been for my 300WSM before I switched to Barnes.

 

[Razorback]

Take this for what it’s worth because I’ve never shot a wildebeest. I have shot Roosevelt elk, which are typically in the 640 to 850lb category unless they are fully mature around 1000lbs.

The reason I shoot the 150gr TTSX at 2940fps in a 30-06 is it gives me a flat trajectory and the speed for reliable expansion while retaining more weight than a jacketed lead bullet weighing 20% more. So far, I have not had an elk catch one. Impact ranges have been fairly short, between 40 and 230 yards.

If you load jacketed bullets at mild velocity, they actually perform a lot better than you would think. A Sierra GameKing in a tarted up magnum may have issues. Load it to 2600 FPS, and it behaves a lot better out to 300 yards.

People on this site would think this is heresy, but the 180gr Nosler Ballistic Tip is actually built pretty tough. The 95gr 6mm, 120gr 7mm, 180gr .308 Cal, and the .338 versions have pretty thick jackets. There is always Accubonds too.

For what it’s worth, 54gr of H4350 and 55gr of Ramshot Hunter will give you 2650-ish with a 180gr A-Frame. 58gr of Ramshot Big Game got me 3005 fps, but accuracy was best at 2940.

You got 30-06 over 3000 with an A-frame? Thats smoking!

 

[Flipper Dude]

I don’t know if it’s overthinking or not, but I know it’s a lot more analysis than I’d give it


I’d buy 180g Barnes Vortex TSX and go hunting. Never left an animal in Africa.

She’ll never feel the recoil. Practice with whatever you want.

 

[375Fox]

People overthink too much, just put it in the boilerroom.

I agree it’s too much overthinking, but slow velocities and copper bullets don’t mix. A bullet that doesnt expand can pretty easily turn into a lost animal. Better advice from start would have been a cup and core 180 gr instead of a Barnes. The velocity isn’t a critical component anymore.

 

[375Fox]

Id say shoot 2400fps your over manufacturers recomended speed.
She can shoot it.

Worst case email barnes and ask if 2400 is suitable for a elk or moose sized animal.

Theyl prolly say yes. But they will have a better deffinitive answer on their own product. But i think its mkre than plenty esp for sub 300m

Barnes can only provide advice based on the impact velocity. The muzzle velocity is irrelevant. Barnes and other copper bullets generally don’t perform well at low velocity. Usually they are much more accurate the faster you push them as well from what I’ve seen.

 

[Gomer]

You got 30-06 over 3000 with an A-frame? Thats smoking!

NO! I should have mentioned that was with the 150gr TTSX. I get 2825 with H4350 and 2845 with Ramshot Hunter.

 

[Gomer]

Have you consider the LRX? It’s a bit softer and can expand well at 2000 fps. The 168gr TTSX is also softer than the 165 TSX/TTSX.

 

[Gomer]

Take this for what it’s worth because I’ve never shot a wildebeest. I have shot Roosevelt elk, which are typically in the 640 to 850lb category unless they are fully mature around 1000lbs.

The reason I shoot the 150gr TTSX at 2940fps in a 30-06 is it gives me a flat trajectory and the speed for reliable expansion while retaining more weight than a jacketed lead bullet weighing 20% more. So far, I have not had an elk catch one. Impact ranges have been fairly short, between 40 and 230 yards.

If you load jacketed bullets at mild velocity, they actually perform a lot better than you would think. A Sierra GameKing in a tarted up magnum may have issues. Load it to 2600 FPS, and it behaves a lot better out to 300 yards.

People on this site would think this is heresy, but the 180gr Nosler Ballistic Tip is actually built pretty tough. The 95gr 6mm, 120gr 7mm, 180gr .308 Cal, and the .338 versions have pretty thick jackets. There is always Accubonds too.

For what it’s worth, 54gr of H4350 and 55gr of Ramshot Hunter will give you 2650-ish with a 180gr A-Frame. 58gr of Ramshot Big Game and 150gr TTSX got me 3005 fps, but accuracy was best at 2940.

Edited to clarify the velocities and load in the last sentence are for 150gr TTSX, NOT 180 gr A-Frames!

 

[45-70guy]

We are talking about the thirty-by-gawd-oh-six! Enough gun for any plains game animal that walks the bush. Keep the shots broadside and under 250 yards. (Btw…in Africa, the same applies to any caliber you might choose.) Use a “premium” 165 or 180 grain bullet. Nosler, Swift, Barnes, Northfork, etc. As most hunters know, she’ll never feel the recoil when she lays one into a Golden Wildebeest….or any other game animal.

Broad side normally is the plan, frontal or quartering is normally the presentation.

 

[DocHolliday]

The 180 gr NAB @ 2400 is mean on wildebeest- ANY plains game for that matter. Will smoke a big bull eland, She'll be good to at least 250 yds and probably 300 as far as expansion goes (IIRC NAB's expand to 1800-1900 fps impact velocity). My African experience is that heavy for caliber well constructed bullets at moderate speeds will carry the day. Outside of a few instances, most African hunting/shooting is done under 300 yds, so I would not buy into the you gotta shoot fast and flat mentality. I've seen a bunch of whiz-bangs end really poorly. I've also seen my son dump a galloping zebra at 400m using a .375 Whelen and 300 gr AFrames moseying along at 2500fps. If she' comfortable with the 180's @ 2400, great choice-eep the NPT/NAB/AF. My $0.02.