.270win and lead free ammunition

[HankBuck]

I do not think that lead free ammunition has made any cartridge more lethal.

@Doug Hamilton - maybe Not more lethal but do you think some of the All Copper TSX bullets combine penetration AND controlled expansion “Better” then lead partition & bonded type bullets? I’ve found them to be very accurate out of the rifles I’ve used them in and penetration very consistent —- maybe even deeper then needed on some angles.

 

[dchum]

I do not think that lead free ammunition has made any cartridge more lethal.

Wow, you really think that?

A gentleman took the North American slam with his 257 Weatherby. Him using a Barnes for everything made it possible for moose and bison, so in my mind Barnes mad that 257 “more lethal”

 

[Doug Hamilton]

@Doug Hamilton - maybe Not more lethal but do you think some of the All Copper TSX bullets combine penetration AND controlled expansion “Better” then lead partition & bonded type bullets? I’ve found them to be very accurate out of the rifles I’ve used them in and penetration very consistent —- maybe even deeper then needed on some angles.

I have never shot an animal with them, but they were not accurate in the rifle that I loaded them.for. It is my feeling that they were created more to satisfy the "Greenies" than to improve the efficiency of a cartridge. Copper is less dense than lead, and harder. It brings it's own issues.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Wow, you really think that?

A gentleman took the North American slam with his 257 Weatherby. Him using a Barnes for everything made it possible for moose and bison, so in my mind Barnes mad that 257 “more lethal”

Friends of mine still in California would not agree. Anyway, didn't Roy Weatherby use his .257 Wby. to kill a cape buffalo? I never thought that was a good idea, using mono bullets would not change my mind.

 

[Uncontrolled_round_feed]

450 yards, 270 Win 130 grain Barnes. I think elk are tough SOBs. I’m happy with it.

 

[dchum]

Friends of mine still in California would not agree. Anyway, didn't Roy Weatherby use his .257 Wby. to kill a cape buffalo? I never thought that was a good idea, using mono bullets would not change my mind.

You have never shot an animal with them as you stated above.

I’ll leave it to that haha

 

[Doug Hamilton]

You have never shot an animal with them as you stated above.

I’ll leave it to that haha

If they were not accurate in my rifle why would I shoot an animal with them? The friends of mine in California are now restricted to lead free ammo, and they are not happy with the result. Is that so hard to comprehend?

 

[TSIBINDI]

...Caliber .270 Win, Pre '64 Super Grade M-70, 1.5x5 Leupold, 150gr Nosler Partitions

Zimbabwe

Impala 6
Sable 1
Duiker 1
Zebra 4
Kudu 2
Warthog 3
Wildebeest 1
Baboon 4
Jackal 1
Leopard 1

South Africa

Gemsbok 1
Springbok 1
Blesbok 2


Poor shooting required two shots on Sable, and Wildebeest.

 

[HankBuck]

I have never shot an animal with them, but they were not accurate in the rifle that I loaded them.for. It is my feeling that they were created more to satisfy the "Greenies" than to improve the efficiency of a cartridge. Copper is less dense than lead, and harder. It brings it's own issues.

@Doug Hamilton - you might be right that these bullets were invented looking to create a ‘Lead Free’ hunting bullet but regardless of intent - result was an excellent controlled expansion & deep penetrating bullet that is very consistent. Because the bullet is copper and lighter then lead I believe they are longer to achieve desired weight and that leaves a little less case room for powder. They may not deliver the “shock” of a fast expanding Lead bullet but the deep penetration seems to off-set that problem. To your point - if Not accurate in your rifle then they should not be used. The guy that made my custom rifles swore by them and hand loaded TSX for Africa in .470NE and .30-06. He especially liked them on Buffalo. My only direct experience was excellent results on Wildebeest, Impala (over kill), and Baboon (way over kill).

 

[BGHNTR416]

I live in CA and to be sure, I am not happy that we cannot use lead of any kind to take animals legally. However, I was using Barnes X bullets by choice long before it was mandated. Not in all of my rifles but in some of them. So, my dissatisfaction is not with having to use a copper bullet, its with not having a choice. I am sure plenty of people are upset because the bullets/ammo that they found to work in their rifles is not an option now if it has lead in it. (This is inconvenient and not many people appreciated the state dictating to us hunters something that was based on what most felt was total BS.) Early on, when Barnes came out with the X bullet, I think it was often compared to cup and core bullets, in which case I firmly believe it increased the lethality of some cartridges. Just my opinion...

 

[HankBuck]

I live in CA and to be sure, I am not happy that we cannot use lead of any kind to take animals legally. However, I was using Barnes X bullets by choice long before it was mandated. Not in all of my rifles but in some of them. So, my dissatisfaction is not with having to use a copper bullet, its with not having a choice. I am sure plenty of people are upset because the bullets/ammo that they found to work in their rifles is not an option now if it has lead in it. (This is inconvenient and not many people appreciated the state dictating to us hunters something that was based on what most felt was total BS.) Early on, when Barnes came out with the X bullet, I think it was often compared to cup and core bullets, in which case I firmly believe it increased the lethality of some cartridges. Just my opinion...

@BGHNTR416 - how often are Hunters “checked” for possession of Lead ammo? And how do they check you - ask to see your ammo? Pull the bullet from your deer and inspect it? Must be very difficult to enforce that law

 

[Doug Hamilton]

@BGHNTR416 - how often are Hunters “checked” for possession of Lead ammo? And how do they check you - ask to see your ammo? Pull the bullet from your deer and inspect it? Must be very difficult to enforce that law

I have eondered.the same thing. I moved out of California before unleaded bullets were mandated.

 

[dchum]

If they were not accurate in my rifle why would I shoot an animal with them? The friends of mine in California are now restricted to lead free ammo, and they are not happy with the result. Is that so hard to comprehend?

You are giving your opinion on something you have never used.

Why do some many PH’s tell their clients to use Barnes
No restrictions in Africa.

 

[BGHNTR416]

Hankbuck, Doug, great question. I have wondered as well. I have never been checked, as I have yet to run into a warden while hunting since the law went into affect. If you had factory ammo and the factory box, that might suffice. Steel shot shells are usually marked as "Steel" as are bismuth. Barnes bullets are easily identified usually, and I believe the other makers use colored tips on their copper bullets that might ID them but I am not 100% sure. Maybe someone else on here has a better answer? I harvested my Tule elk with the 129 grain LRX out of my 270. It was on private land but no way would I have taken a chance using lead ammo on that hunt and risk having Fish and Game take away my bull.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

You are giving your opinion on something you have never used.

Why do some many PH’s tell their clients to use Barnes
No restrictions in Africa.

I don't have to fail at something myself to learn from others. PH's telling people to use Barnes? None that I've ever heard of, unless maybe they were one of several choices that the PH listed as as acceptable. I actually asked my PH that question. In the past he had.liked Partitions, now he favors North Fork and Trophy Bonded. He never mentioned any monometal bullets at all. I haven't asked the question of any others that I have talked to.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

View attachment 673616

450 yards, 270 Win 130 grain Barnes. I think elk are tough SOBs. I’m happy with it.

Nice bull. Where did the bullet hit?

 

[Doug Hamilton]

...Caliber .270 Win, Pre '64 Super Grade M-70, 1.5x5 Leupold, 150gr Nosler Partitions

Zimbabwe

Impala 6
Sable 1
Duiker 1
Zebra 4
Kudu 2
Warthog 3
Wildebeest 1
Baboon 4
Jackal 1
Leopard 1

South Africa

Gemsbok 1
Springbok 1
Blesbok 2


Poor shooting required two shots on Sable, and Wildebeest.

I also had good luck with Partitions on my first safari. 180 grains out of a .30-06.

 

[JG26Irish_2]

I have never shot an animal with them, but they were not accurate in the rifle that I loaded them.for.

You have never used the TSX or other copper monolithic bullet on animals, and that qualifies you to claim they are not good hunting bullets? How so?

My advice is that you try them and then build an opinion based on actual experience. You are correct that they were developed and required in some states to satisfy the Greenies misguided environmentalist BS. But, they still work very well if you know how to choose them for a given rifle.

Try them but, first do this... Use a lighter bullet than your usual. If your rifle likes a 150g bullet then use the next size lighter in the Barnes or other monolithic. Why? Because for the same weight bullet the Barnes must be longer and thus harder to stabilize. My 7mm/08 shoots 1/2" groups with a 140g Barnes TTSX and likewise shoots a 150g Swift Scirocco just as well. My 7mm Mag likes a 175g bonded copper/lead bullet but loves the 160g Barnes copper bullet. Also shoots 1/2" at 100y.

I killed a Blue Wildebeest with a 375HH loaded with the TSX 300g bullet and the first shot was fatal a frontal at 180y off sticks and it dropped after a 60y run. We shot it two more times just to shorten the finish but it never regained its feet. Those bullets expanded to 2.0x and 2.2x and penetrated nearly 3 ft of the animal. It was a SCI Gold Medal record (preliminary) and weighed over 600lbs. Weight retention was 100%. I am not a great fan of the monolithics but my experience with them has been great.

 

[JimP]

I've been shooting nothing but Barnes for the last 25 years and have had zero problems with accuracy, and in most cases they are more accurate than cup and core bullets.

The one problem that arises is that they love a clean barrel, if you don't get the copper fouling out your accuracy is going to suffer.

As for distances, I have one elk taken at 700+ yards with the Barnes, a coues deer at 420 yards and my kudu on my first safari at 479 yards. All with Barnes TTSX and one shot kills except for the elk and I hit him twice, both were kill shots. But as anyone that has hunted elk knows, if they are still standing you need to keep shooting.

Barnes works so well for me I even shoot them out of my muzzle loader.

 

[deewayne2003]

A gentleman took the North American slam with his 257 Weatherby. Him using a Barnes for everything made it possible for moose and bison, so in my mind Barnes mad that 257 “more lethal”

Agreed with the .257Wby is an example of where all the versions of the TSX; with Reloader 22 and 100gr TSX at 3,600FPS hit things like Thors hammer.

My longest whitetail shot to date was with that combo @ 528yds shoulder shot and she dropped.

120gr Partitions are the next best thing

But Roy Weatherby used a .257 to take a Cape buffalo before TSX came about.