Barrel Band Sling-Swivels and Point of Impact

Newboomer said:

My 9.3x62 swivel is forend mounted and I keep it in front of the sticks and my hand on or behind the sticks so I don't get bit or pinched. Same with my 375 HH which is barrel mounted.

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This is the foolproof method on sticks. It works great.
The challenge of course is that it does not work when shooting off hands, so it is only a partial solution, and the experience related by spike.t only needs to happen once to convince you that it is very real... Did to me with a .458 Lott. Did not need it explained to me twice after that...

shootist~ said:

Is there another (good) way to mount a barrel band sling swivel without breaking out the propane and silver soldering it on?

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Yes shootist~, there is

Carefully removing the bluing and roughing the polish of the barrel with a 1/2 inch strip of 180 grit sandpaper, and roughing the inside of the barrel band polish with that same sandpaper (after bluing its external surfaces - Birchwood Casey Super Blue is not perfect, but it works well enough if you apply it a dozen times or so) will create perfect surfaces for Loctite Red or - even more permanent - Loctite Black 380. Beware though that Loctite Black is truly an INSTANT adhesive so you will have but mere seconds to make sure the band is properly positioned. You can position it first without the glue and make reference marks with a marker to make sure all is ready, but I personally prefer Loctite Red 263 because it gives you a minute or so to make sure everything is lined up, and the band over the barrel with roughened contact surfaces is essentially a nut over a bolt, which is what Loctite Red was designed for.

The issue of course, is that to install a barrel band without the torch, you need a barrel without a soldered front sight. Most front sights nowadays are screwed onto the barrel, so they are easy to remove, but traditional DG rifles, including the CZ 550 Magnum have a soldered front sight... I suspect the 9.3x62 made on the standard length "American" CZ may have a screwed on front sight...

NECG and - believe it or not - Talley have easy to mount front swivel barrel bands of various diameter.

Stocky said:

One more note, we always recommend anyone purchasing a stock with screw-in studs to epoxy the studs in place. They can and do pull out, unscrew and otherwise fail. Can be very embarrassing when it happens on a horse, atv, shooting stand or under heavy recoil, etc.

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Paul Jaeger, the originator of what is now known to most shooters as the Uncle Mike’s QD swivel system, 70-80 odd years ago, was obviously a talented gunsmith; as was his nephew who managed Jaeger’s workshop until his uncle’s passing in the 1960s and later moved East to set up NECG BUT everything is a compromise and you do have to use epoxy when fixing either a Jaeger-style or a Pachmayr-style QD setup to a wooden stock. As a carpenter, I also advise clients that, if they never intend to dismantle their flat pack desks, to supplement the cam locks and screws with glue.

One Day... said:

.....
shootist~, there is

Carefully removing the bluing and roughing the polish of the barrel with a 1.2 inch strip of sand paper, and roughing the inside of the barrel band polish (after bluing its external surfaces) will create perfect surfaces for Loctite Red or - even more permanent - Loctite Black 380. Beware though that Loctite Black is truly an INSTANT adhesive so you will have but mere seconds to make sure the band is properly positioned. You can position it first without the glue and make reference marks with a marker to make sure all is ready, but I personally prefer Loctite Red 263 because it gives you a minute or so to make sure everything is lined up, and the band over the barrel with roughened contact surfaces is essentially a nut over a bolt, which is what Loctite Red was designed for.

The issue of course, is that in order to slide a barrel band without the torch, you need a barrel without a soldered front sight. Most front sights nowadays are screwed onto the barrel, so they are easy to remove, but traditional DG rifles, including the CZ 550 Magnum have a soldered front sight... I suspect the 9.3x62 made on the standard length "American" CZ may have a screwed on front sight...

NECG and - believe it or not - Talley have easy to mount front swivel barrel bands of various diameter.

Click to expand...

Thank you.

No iron sights on my 9.3. I'll order a Talley Barrel Band, mock it up then decide.

You are welcome


Talley front swivel barrel band installed with Red Loctite on a CZ 550 .270 Win barrel, with a Bell & Carlson stock purposefully ordered "without front swivel stud".

1. With barrels of typical taper, measure the diameter of the barrel 2" ahead of the forearm. Once the inside of the barrel band is tapered to match the barrel taper, it will seat ~1" to 1.5" ahead of the forearm.
2. Purchase a barrel band of appropriate inside diameter (https://www.talleymanufacturing.com/product/id-barrel-band/ or https://www.newenglandcustomgun.com/proddetail.php?prod=4720). For typical barrels I use Talley. They are 1/2 price of NECG and just as good, although NECG offer wider diameters for .500 barrels or really heavy contour .450 barrels).
3. Taper the inside of the barrel band to match the taper of the barrel (a Dremel with a 180 grit drum sander works great if carefully used in a regular rotating motion inside the band with a slight angle).
4. Take the time to mate closely the internal band surface to the barrel surface. The micro grooves cut by the sandpaper in both surfaces will act as micro threads and will hold the band solidly in place on the barrel just by themselves.
5. Blue the barrel band external surfaces (Birchwood Casey Super Blue is not perfect, but it sure beats trying to do hot blue at home, and it works well enough if you apply it a dozen times or so).
   
6. Once the band is ready and you know where it fits on the barrel, carefully remove the bluing and rough up the polish of the barrel with a 1/2 inch wide strip of 180 grit sandpaper. Remove only enough finish (~1/2" ring) to be covered by the 5/8" band when installed.
   
7. Apply Loctite Red 263 (works on all metals) or 272 (doe not work on stainless steel) high strength to both band and barrel surfaces in an even film on the entire surfaces.
8. Position and lock the band on the barrel with a gentle tap of a wood mallet, making sure the swivel stud is vertical.
9. Promptly wipe out any Loctite smeared on the barrel when sliding the band and adjusting it.
10. Let cure for 24 hours.

Cost & Time: $30 / 1 to 2 hours.


PS: of course, if you get into a seriously tight sling - which it needs to be to be effective - and you pull hard on the barrel, a barrel band front swivel WILL affect your point of impact. But, truth be told, unless you have a very sturdy heavy stock and a generously free floated barrel, any serious sling tension (as in "prone match" sling tension) will also affect point of impact on most typical hunting rifles by pulling both forearm and barrel. For hunting, I prefer the sticks to the sling myself...

Stocky said:

One more note, we always recommend anyone purchasing a stock with screw-in studs to epoxy the studs in place. They can and do pull out, unscrew and otherwise fail. Can be very embarrassing when it happens on a horse, atv, shooting stand or under heavy recoil, etc.

This is another great reason to use a barrel band and would be the reason Winchester hung their stud off a machined barrel "band", through the stock on their pre-64 70's.

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I know this is an ancient thread but the above is just not so. The pre 64 didn't do as stated. The "stud" was a screw that threaded into the boss of the rear sight base on standard models, but not on featherweights, there being no boss for a dovetailed rear sight, and was not for sling attachment. The sling point on the stock was the same as others, a screw threaded into a nut inside the stocks forearm.

CBH Australia said:

So, they are telling you to shoot again, so where was the Lion?
I googled barrel bands because I like the look I think it looks traditional and I guess it comes from pictures of rifles In magazines I readas a kid,
Dunno I just like the look but i assume it’s costly to get one fitted now with soldering rebuking etc and there will be no one locally I bet.
I know there are clamp on models they won’t look the same and may come loose or at least require loctite on the thread.

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The lion expired while I was swearing...

ThreeEyedCubanWalkingMushroom said:

I've always been curious about the advantage of a barrel band sling swivel as opposed to one on the stock. It appears questionable to me, it seems that whenever a sling is slung around the left arm to stabilize the rifle, it would put pressure on the barrel, acting like a contact point. Wouldn't this affect acoustics and potentially change the rifle's point of impact?

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What caliber rifle are we talking about?

I watched my father-in-law shoot his 460 Weatherby once in the mid 1980's. He only got it out cause some of us "kids" asked him to all shoot it. I watched him fire that first shot very carefully as I did not want to look like a rube when it came my turn. It came back way faster in recoil than he expected and that Weatherby factory sling stud bit his finger very hard. I could see the pain in his expression and the way he handed the gun off to his son. He was an ex WWII airborne guy and was NOT able to show us children that it hurt, but I knew it did! I had my hand well back of that stud and a good grip before I popped that first cap! I also requested a barrel band for the front sling when I spec'ed out my Model 70 from the Winchester custom shop in late 1989, when they were just bringing back the controlled round feed action. It is 375 H&H and I had the barrel cut at 25". So when I am slung, the barrel is not too high, which I think is a good thing.

One Day... said:

You are welcome

View attachment 354695
Talley front swivel barrel band installed with Red Loctite on a CZ 550 .270 Win barrel, with a Bell & Carlson stock purposefully ordered "without front swivel stud".

1. With barrels of typical taper, measure the diameter of the barrel 2" ahead of the forearm. Once the inside of the barrel band is tapered to match the barrel taper, it will seat ~1" to 1.5" ahead of the forearm.
2. Purchase a barrel band of appropriate inside diameter (https://www.talleymanufacturing.com/product/id-barrel-band/ or https://www.newenglandcustomgun.com/proddetail.php?prod=4720). For typical barrels I use Talley. They are 1/2 price of NECG and just as good, although NECG offer wider diameters for .500 barrels or really heavy contour .450 barrels).
3. Taper the inside of the barrel band to match the taper of the barrel (a Dremel with a 180 grit drum sander works great if carefully used in a regular rotating motion inside the band with a slight angle).
4. Take the time to mate closely the internal band surface to the barrel surface. The micro grooves cut by the sandpaper in both surfaces will act as micro threads and will hold the band solidly in place on the barrel just by themselves.
5. Blue the barrel band external surfaces (Birchwood Casey Super Blue is not perfect, but it sure beats trying to do hot blue at home, and it works well enough if you apply it a dozen times or so).
   
6. Once the band is ready and you know where it fits on the barrel, carefully remove the bluing and rough up the polish of the barrel with a 1/2 inch wide strip of 180 grit sandpaper. Remove only enough finish (~1/2" ring) to be covered by the 5/8" band when installed.
   
7. Apply Loctite Red 263 (works on all metals) or 272 (doe not work on stainless steel) high strength to both band and barrel surfaces in an even film on the entire surfaces.
8. Position and lock the band on the barrel with a gentle tap of a wood mallet, making sure the swivel stud is vertical.
9. Promptly wipe out any Loctite smeared on the barrel when sliding the band and adjusting it.
10. Let cure for 24 hours.

Cost & Time: $30 / 1 to 2 hours.


PS: of course, if you get into a seriously tight sling - which it needs to be to be effective - and you pull hard on the barrel, a barrel band front swivel WILL affect your point of impact. But, truth be told, unless you have a very sturdy heavy stock and a generously free floated barrel, any serious sling tension (as in "prone match" sling tension) will also affect point of impact on most typical hunting rifles by pulling both forearm and barrel. For hunting, I prefer the sticks to the sling myself...

Click to expand...

@One Day... .
Sounds like a lot of hard work to me. I'm basically a slacker. Always just used a sling as normal. I don't have any big kickers so don't need to worry. If I'm in low scrub I either carry my rifle at port or hang it upside down on my shoulder. I didn't have any problems shooting of sticks even the viper flex with the a sling I just practiced doing it.
Bob

Hi,

About a barrel mounted sling swivel I love it! I like how it looks and how it works. Low barrel when shoulder mounted and so.
And about the potential shift of the point of impact when a sling is slung around the left arm to stabilize the rifle, I use the sling that way BUT not tight on the swivel: being a right handed, I keep the sling tight on the forward part of the stock pressed with my left hand. As simple as that. So, the sling does not pull on the sling swivel but it does stabilize the rifle.

CF

The stock mounted swivel is more suited for target shooting IMO...The barrel band swivel allows your barrel to ride lower in the thick stuff, so its a better carry..Much to be made of this scenario of imagined pro and cons.....its just another way to skin a cat..both work well enough. I don't use a sling to shoot so I mostly use the barrel mounted sling swivels, but either works for me..

RayAtkinson said:

The stock mounted swivel is more suited for target shooting IMO...The barrel band swivel allows your barrel to ride lower in the thick stuff, so its a better carry..Much to be made of this scenario of imagined pro and cons.....its just another way to skin a cat..both work well enough. I don't use a sling to shoot so I mostly use the barrel mounted sling swivels, but either works for me..

Click to expand...

@RayAtkinson
I have seen the sling swivel mounted on the pistol grip and forend, this gives a really low carry.
Bob

One Day... said:

You are welcome

View attachment 354695
Talley front swivel barrel band installed with Red Loctite on a CZ 550 .270 Win barrel, with a Bell & Carlson stock purposefully ordered "without front swivel stud".

1. With barrels of typical taper, measure the diameter of the barrel 2" ahead of the forearm. Once the inside of the barrel band is tapered to match the barrel taper, it will seat ~1" to 1.5" ahead of the forearm.
2. Purchase a barrel band of appropriate inside diameter (https://www.talleymanufacturing.com/product/id-barrel-band/ or https://www.newenglandcustomgun.com/proddetail.php?prod=4720). For typical barrels I use Talley. They are 1/2 price of NECG and just as good, although NECG offer wider diameters for .500 barrels or really heavy contour .450 barrels).
3. Taper the inside of the barrel band to match the taper of the barrel (a Dremel with a 180 grit drum sander works great if carefully used in a regular rotating motion inside the band with a slight angle).
4. Take the time to mate closely the internal band surface to the barrel surface. The micro grooves cut by the sandpaper in both surfaces will act as micro threads and will hold the band solidly in place on the barrel just by themselves.
5. Blue the barrel band external surfaces (Birchwood Casey Super Blue is not perfect, but it sure beats trying to do hot blue at home, and it works well enough if you apply it a dozen times or so).
   
6. Once the band is ready and you know where it fits on the barrel, carefully remove the bluing and rough up the polish of the barrel with a 1/2 inch wide strip of 180 grit sandpaper. Remove only enough finish (~1/2" ring) to be covered by the 5/8" band when installed.
   
7. Apply Loctite Red 263 (works on all metals) or 272 (doe not work on stainless steel) high strength to both band and barrel surfaces in an even film on the entire surfaces.
8. Position and lock the band on the barrel with a gentle tap of a wood mallet, making sure the swivel stud is vertical.
9. Promptly wipe out any Loctite smeared on the barrel when sliding the band and adjusting it.
10. Let cure for 24 hours.

Cost & Time: $30 / 1 to 2 hours.


PS: of course, if you get into a seriously tight sling - which it needs to be to be effective - and you pull hard on the barrel, a barrel band front swivel WILL affect your point of impact. But, truth be told, unless you have a very sturdy heavy stock and a generously free floated barrel, any serious sling tension (as in "prone match" sling tension) will also affect point of impact on most typical hunting rifles by pulling both forearm and barrel. For hunting, I prefer the sticks to the sling myself...

Click to expand...

Before starting on my CZ 550, I decided to first do one on a Tikka 30-06. Above is after 3 or four applications of the Super Blue. I waited a few days and did three more - back to back - and called it good.

My off hand position is forward of the sticks, and I really like the sling swivel out of the way.

It will deflect the barrel to some extent. But the rifles that have a barrel band swivel are usually heavy game rifles that aren't often shot from slung-up positions and rarely at range far enough that the deflection will matter. But it is fun to sling up every now and again if for no reason other than it seems a rather lost art in these days of the tactical hunting bipod and hat's off to anyone who wants to do it!

Bert said "But it is fun to sling up every now and again.." Indeed it is!
First time out with my pre 64 M70 .308 after it was Magnaported, I was standing backed into a cedar tree for cover when along came 4 hogs that stopped to feed forty yards out. With left arm in the sling, I took careful aim on the head of the larger hog and squeezed off a shot. Miracle of miracle, the lack of muzzle rise allowed me to see exactly what happened when the bullet whacked the hog's head - never lost sight of any of the action. Without missing a beat, another hog turned to look at the now dead hog and I shot it in the back of the head. Woo Hoo! On a roll.
A few minutes later, another hog came trotting down the fence line from my left - once again , sling up, track pig in scope , squeeze trigger and Bang flop! Three pigs in 30 minutes and I love my M70 even more with no muzzle flip or rise at the shot.

I killed two deer slung up in a 1907 style sling 300 WM Encore. The trotted out into the field and I shot the first at 77 yards. I broke the gun open, reloaded from my jacket pocket and shit the second one at 141 yards. There is something to be said for larger shells in the pocket.

Forrest Halley said:

I killed two deer slung up in a 1907 style sling 300 WM Encore. The trotted out into the field and I shot the first at 77 yards. I broke the gun open, reloaded from my jacket pocket and shit the second one at 141 yards. There is something to be said for larger shells in the pocket.

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@Forrest Halley
Forrest I have heard of shitting bricks and watermelons but never heard of any one saying they shit a deer.
I just hope it was a doe. A big 12 point buck would be to painfull especially if the antlers got stuck on the way out.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Bob