1899 Rigby keyhole wobble

1r4rc said:
The crown and bore may be bad for accuracy but the keyholing suggests it's not stabilizing the bullet. As noted above, Id slug the bore to see what you're dealing with, and drop to lighter bullet (maybe step down to 160 before going to 140). Even bad bore and crown usually hits paper w/o keyholing. I wasnt sure whether the velocity you gave was factory or chrony, but if bore is oversize, you may be losing pressure and velocity, which would compound problems stabilizing heavier bullets and keyholing There are a few bullet makers like Hawk that could custom size bullets if necessary.
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Yeah that's been my thoughts. I'd be totally happy with this rifle even if it's not great accuracy. But the keyholing has to stop.

That speed was factory I don't have a chrono but will be buying one. And going to slug it tonight to see the measurements.
 
Adam Stevens said:
Yeah that's been my thoughts. I'd be totally happy with this rifle even if it's not great accuracy. But the keyholing has to stop.

That speed was factory I don't have a chrono but will be buying one. And going to slug it tonight to see the measurements.
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Slugging the barrel is a great idea. And I’ve done it several times. But just keep in mind that it’s going to show you the tightest spot in the barrel. So pay attention to how the slug feels as you push it thru the barrel.
 
LeftySixgun said:
Slugging the barrel is a great idea. And I’ve done it several times. But just keep in mind that it’s going to show you the tightest spot in the barrel. So pay attention to how the slug feels as you push it thru the barrel.
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Slugged it, found a perfect 30cal sized old lead line sinker I used. Oiled it up and tapped it through with brass rods. Can see alittle of the rifling on it. As for force or tight spots. Once in the barrel, tight at first 1-2" then it was constant all the way till it loosened at the throat by my measurements.

IMG_0970.jpeg


Found digital caliper, and bore sections on the slug were .284 exactly. Going around "I think it's 4 lands sections" or flatter ones you could tell. But they were .278-.280. Technically Rigby said these early ones were listed as .276. Obviously the barrels been worn.


IMG_0972.jpeg


BUT I'm hoping it's the last 2" of the barrel they do appear the most worn part of it with the crown. When I first tapped in the slug I pulled it back to make sure it was working correctly, and turning it while slightly in the hole it was getting gaps or wobbly.

It's so tough with my phone to get a good image of the inside bore. Might have to get my bigger cameras out to try.


IMG_0971.jpeg
 
Neat rifle.

As you suggested, the bullets are not stable and I will theorize that the issue is a combination of things.

Can you confirm the twist rate of the barrel?

If it was me, I'd pick up another brand of ammo just to see what happens.

You can pick up an inexpensive bore scope off of Amazon to have a very good look at the barrel internals. I picked one up for around $50usd and it works fine. The barrel doesn't have to have perfect rifling to produce good results. However, that rifling looks bad from what I can see for the length of the barrel.

And I'd start considering if I wanted to spend the money on a a new barrel so I could use it, or, am I willing to take a hit and take my losses and recover what I can buy selling it for someone else to deal with.

I suspect that you are going to have to spend a fair amount of money to have a usable rifle. This is coming from someone who tends to end up with projects...
 
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If you decide to counter bore, please post your results. I have a rifle with very good rifling except the last 4 inches to the muzzle. I am considering counter boring it.
Mike
 
Found some S&B to try this weekend, 173gr spce and 140gr both going slow enough for safe pressures in this intermediate action. Be neat to see if any changes.


txtrout75218 said:
Neat rifle.

As you suggested, the bullets are not stable and I will theorize that the issue is a combination of things.

Can you confirm the twist rate of the barrel?

If it was me, I'd pick up another brand of ammo just to see what happens.
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it should be the 1 in 8.66 faster rate, to regulate the 173gr

if all goes poorly, oct 1st Im dropping off at the gunsmiths while I head to deer camp for the week. I was originally planning to use this Rigby for 'any buck' season but it'll be at the gunsmiths.
 
A happier update!

Got setup at 25 yards again 'to make sure I could see what it's hitting'

140gr Sellier and Belliot fmj going 2600fps. First bullet "click" oh great, wait a min and check, not dented primer. I remembered when I cleaned the rifle and had bolt out, it dropped onto bench but it had rotated. I twisted the internal mechanism 180degree and it bottomed out perfectly.

Reloaded and fired. PERFECT SIDEWAYS haaaaa. Another shot for fun. Two sideways 140gr bullets.

Figured what the heck let's put the S&B 173gr spce 2390fps bullets in. First two shots almost perfect and above bullseye. Moved back to 50-60 yards. Two more perfect in same spot tighter pattern and better hole too.

Might of found a decent factory load for this barrel. Going to shoot some more groupings tomorrow with this 173gr but I'm quite hopeful now. I keep laughing at these perfect sideways bullet imprints lol

IMG_1093.jpeg
 
Seems arse about. I would of thought the lighter faster bullets would stabilise the best. Huummm. Just out of curiosity could you measure the diameter of the 140 and 173 grain bullets. I know they are sustainably from the same manufacturer so should be the same.
 
Rule 303 said:
Seems arse about. I would have thought the lighter faster bullets would stabilise the best. Huummm. Just out of curiosity could you measure the diameter of the 140 and 173 grain bullets. I know they are sustainably from the same manufacturer so should be the same.
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Yes I had the same thoughts and actually measured them before firing.

The Rigby/hornady 140gr and federal 175gr rnsp they were also exactly .284

And today both S&B 140gr fmj and 173gr spce were the same aswell

The 140gr fmj I'm guessing could have been slight boat tail potentially, so less surface area potentially?

And looking at the spce 173gr, potentially it has a longer distance of the bullet at the .284 diameter. So more meat to accept the rotation of what's left of the rifling.



IMG_1102.jpeg
 
I’ve always handloaded for my 7x57, but I have a couple boxes of that S&B SPCE, I need to try them and see how they shoot.
 
LeftySixgun said:
Wow, seems strange. Did check velocity with a chronograph?
Are you able to easily get the S&B 173s?
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I don't own one unfortunately. On my list to buy as I know I'll be reloading more.

It would be neat to see if gasses were getting past some of the bullets and loosing speed.

Luckily they are very prevalent in Canada. I could easily stock up on that if that's what works.

I almost want to pull a bullet from each brand I have to fully measure and check differences or why the spce is working well compared to the 175gr federal rnsp
 
Adam Stevens said:
I don't own one unfortunately. On my list to buy as I know I'll be reloading more.

It would be neat to see if gasses were getting past some of the bullets and loosing speed.

Luckily they are very prevalent in Canada. I could easily stock up on that if that's what works.

I almost want to pull a bullet from each brand I have to fully measure and check differences or why the spce is working well compared to the 175gr federal rnsp
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If one of the bullets has a boat tail of any sort then if the crown is damaged they will go askew before the straight flat base. That is the deviation will be greater with the BT, so I have been told.
 
Looked into these spce bullets more and quickly found a lot of older rifles k98 and others it patterns well in old worn barrels.

It's a gilded steel jacket which some think under the pressure of being fired swells outwards and fills/seals the bore, helping exactly with what I need with this barrel. And this bullet has a very large surface bearing area compared to other, to accept as much rifling as it can get on a worn barrels
 
Interesting problem and solution.
Congrats on sorting it out. Enjoy the rifle. Thanks for posting.
 
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