My thoughts on recoil

Tdsmith517 · Aug 30, 2026

If you’re are getting hit by your scope, I don’t think your eye relief is correct.

Gomer · Aug 30, 2026

matt85 said:
My Win M70 chambered in 416 RM is a fantastic gun! But one of the worst rifles I've ever shot was stock Win M70 in 458 WM. I'm not sure if it is the stock shape, balance, or weight, but that gun is no fun.

I’ve always thought factory M70s recoiled more noticeably than other brands. I have an M700 in 300 Win Mag that has less felt recoil than my M70 in 30-06. But once I put the barreled action into an Edge, it felt noticeably more comfortable while being 11 oz lighter.

mms45 · Aug 30, 2026

I can tell you I found my limit today 2 reasons,

One I don’t know what I was doing wrong by my 470 was hitting me in the cheek. Changed nothing about the gun from the last time I shot today it was hitting me not sure why. I even took the red dot off and shot open site it wasn’t as bad but still coming up more than usual. Stopped at 6rd my cheek couldn’t handle anymore

2) shot about 25rd of 33 nosler off the bench between those 2 guns I stopped when I felt my form going to crap.

dgr416 · Aug 30, 2026

I dont like cheek pieces on hard kicking guns .My 416s without cheek pieces are way smoother to shoot .The kevelar stocked one I have has a little cheek piece wish it had none .It kicks way less than my model 70 in 416 rem mag and weighs 2 pounds less .

matt85 · Aug 30, 2026

My Win M70 in 416 RM is one of my favorite guns. But I have never compared it to another 416 RM side by side.

@mms45 If your 470 is hitting you in the cheek then something is off. Either the fit is very poor for you or you're holding the rifle in a very odd way (since you said it didn't normally do that). I recommend shouldering the rifle and having someone take pictures of your hold.

mms45 · Aug 30, 2026

matt85 said:
My Win M70 in 416 RM is one of my favorite guns. But I have never compared it to another 416 RM side by side.

@mms45 If your 470 is hitting you in the cheek then something is off. Either the fit is very poor for you or you're holding the rifle in a very odd way (since you said it didn't normally do that). I recommend shouldering the rifle and having someone take pictures of your hold.

yea I don’t know what happened or changed I will shoot it again next week see what I did different. It fits me fine shoulders well

Miletic · Aug 30, 2026

matt85 said:
I often see people talking about recoil and if bigger guns are worth recoil. So, i decided to start a thread to share my thoughts on the subject.

First, most modern guns are way too light for their cartridge! Modern guns trade weight for recoil. This often leads to less practice, which in turn leads to poor shooting. Instead of "how much recoil can I handle?", The real question should be "how much weight can I carry?". Anyone can shoot a 577 NE well as long as the gun is of proper weight and they put in the effort to learn how to shoot the gun. A light gun is easier to carry... But no fun to shoot.

Second, too many people treat large bore guns the same way they treat small bore guns. I see it like treating a shotgun similar to a rifle. A 470 NE double is nothing like a bolt action 300 WM! Medium bore guns tend to bridge this gap, explaining why they are so popular. If you know how to shoot a 30-06 then you know how to shoot a 375 H&H or even a 416 RM. But once you start getting into .458"+ bullets weighing 480gr+ moving at 2000fps+, the game starts to change. These are relatively short range tools meant to be fired from a standing or possibly kneeling position. Pin point accuracy isnt as important as being able to shoot a moving target off hand or from sticks. Recoil management becomes just as important of a skill as precision and follow up shots. Shooting these big guns from a bench rest like a small bore rifle will do more damage to your shooting technique then it will help! I wont even sight a scope in on a bench with a large bore gun.

Third, your personal weight has little to nothing to do with your ability to shoot large bore guns. A small guy will be able to deal with the recoil at least as good (if not better) than a big guy. If anything being big is a problem because it will be harder the get the stock firmly against your shoulder bone. The only problem ive seen is with people who dont have much upper body strength. It can be difficult to pull a heavy gun into your shoulder without support (aka shooting sticks).

Recoil management is a skill that anyone can learn. Assuming your gun is properly made (most modern guns aren't) then with a bit of practice you can easily fire some if the largest guns in the world with relative ease. Example: last year I had a friend come visit from out of town. He had no experience with guns bigger than his 300 wm. By the end of our first shooting session I had him reliably hitting an 10" gong at around 35 yards with full house 8-bore hunting loads! Those loads were pushing a 1200gr bullet at over 1300fps. Now at that range, it was no proof of marksmanship, but it was proof he had learned to deal with the guns recoil! He had the courage and the drive to learn to shoot that gun. You can do it as well!

My basic strategy:

1. Hold on firmly with both hands. You don't need to white knuckle it, but you should act like someone is going to take it from you.

2. Pull the gun tightly into your shoulder. Your bones should be taking the recoil not your flesh. This is a common mistake new shooters make with large rifles.

3. Put your center of gravity over your forward foot. Pretend your trying to push something heavy up a hill.

4. Focus on the front sight and your target, while slowly squeezing the trigger. This is a single step on purpose. Squeezing the trigger is not a step, it is a background action to focusing on the important things. Focusing on the trigger can cause a flinch.

5. Find your front sight and reacquire your target.

6. (Repeat step 4)

7. Begin your reload while attempting to keep your eyes on the target. We all goof this one up... Especially me.

That is enough rambling out of me. Good shooting and good hunting to you all!

Yes, I agree. The rifle should be held firmly and firmly in the shoulder. Shoulder and neck must be one and follow each other. Nothing terrible, it's even interesting to shoot with large calibers. Of course, this only applies if shooting with red dot or mechanical sights. The situation changes completely when there is an optical sights on the rifle. He can seriously injure a man if he does not know how to accept the recoil. I'm one of those people who never tighten the gun, I hold it very softly in order to hit as well as possible. No matter what, when I take the big caliber and rest the rifle on my shoulder, at that moment I hold it firmly, but as I pull the trigger, I relax and the grip loosens. I shoot a lot in training all the time, but it's this laxity that bothers me, because I can never learn to grip the rifle tightly enough. For this reason, everything above .375 I shoot only with mechanics or red dot. I can adjust an optical sight on a larger caliber than .375 at the shooting range, but in hunting, a larger rifle would most likely break my eye.

Ontario Hunter · Aug 30, 2026

Tdsmith517 said:
If you’re are getting hit by your scope, I don’t think your eye relief is correct.

Two things: First, as I said, the LOP on my 404's stock is a bit short for me. And second, I have deepset eyes and very prominent brow. Scope eye relief is measured as distance between ocular lens on scope and lens in the eye. Someone like me can have a scope with a lot of eye relief that doesn't have enough eyebrow relief. A person with flat facial features likey would not have as much trouble getting kissed by scopes on heavy recoiling rifles.

C.W. Richter · Aug 30, 2026

Many valid points above re: stock configuration. Art Alphin of A-Square fame had it right with his "Coil-Chek" huge surface area butt stocks. He is absolutely correct in that his gen 1. 338(-378 Wby) A-Sq firing 250 grain bullets and over 100 gr of powder feels like shooting a 7 mag. Now, his stock designs were all function and less form (some were nice), but on custom DG rigs I do see some larger surface area butts and THAT purely and physically reduces felt recoil better than anything!!!

For those of you familar with equipment, standard stock butts are akin to the surface area (contact patch) of tires, whereas the surface area of a larger butt stock is akin to treadles (like a bulldozer or trackhoe)-the (much larger surface area) treadles exert ~10x less psi than tires. Probably also why some of the old guns feature a mushroom shaped recoil pad (larger than the actual butt), in addition to not wanting to mess up a fine piece of wood (probably pre-dated masking tape!) lol

SStomcat said:
Wow, that must be massive! With the amount of smoke it generates, it makes me wonder how the hunters of yesteryear managed to take quick follow-up shots on dangerous game.

The reason F. C. Selous moved from those big bore muzzleloaders to .264! It literally crippled him. And, with his beloved 6.5s (with the accompanying high SD/BC with minimal recoil-working smarter, not harder and not bragging about anything which actually damages you) he killed Everything like Bell and many others prior and even today! A 6.5 buried him where he rests today under that blessed tamarind tree in Tanzania, in a NP area that is now known as the Selous...

matt85 · Aug 30, 2026

C.W. Richter said:
The reason F. C. Selous moved from those big bore muzzleloaders to .264! It literally crippled him. And, with his beloved 6.5s (with the accompanying high SD/BC with minimal recoil-working smarter, not harder and not bragging about anything which actually damages you) he killed Everything like Bell and many others prior and even today! A 6.5 buried him where he rests today under that blessed tamarind tree in Tanzania, in a NP area that is now known as the Selous...

I'm still waiting for my old bore rifle to damage me. If what Ive read about these old guns is true... my retinas should detach any day now!

Just today I fired the gun 10 times with the right and left barrel being fired in relatively short order. I'll be sore tomorrow for sure, but give it a couple days and I'll be ready for another round of target shooting.

BTP-KennethWRoyce · Aug 30, 2026

deewayne2003 said:
@BTP-KennethWRoyce
If you’re referring to the girl, her name is Hannah and she graduated from Alabama a couple years ago and now works in marketing for the Dallas Cowboys.

Yes, who else would I have meant?

I've taught many students, over half of them women with little/no gun experience.
Hannah's innate ability is exceptional. On her first day, a .300 Win Mag, 3 shots/100yds/2"?
Savant, right there. I hope she kept up her interest in rifle work!

Pole Pole · Aug 31, 2026

Tanks, what does the gun weigh

Nyati · Aug 31, 2026

mms45 said:
I can tell you I found my limit today 2 reasons,

One I don’t know what I was doing wrong by my 470 was hitting me in the cheek. Changed nothing about the gun from the last time I shot today it was hitting me not sure why. I even took the red dot off and shot open site it wasn’t as bad but still coming up more than usual. Stopped at 6rd my cheek couldn’t handle anymore

2) shot about 25rd of 33 nosler off the bench between those 2 guns I stopped when I felt my form going to crap.

Have you lost/gained weight ?

mms45 · Aug 31, 2026

Nyati said:
Have you lost/gained weight ?

lost 10lbs not enough to matter I would think. i think it was me coming off the bench with the 338 hopping over to the 470 standing i think i wasnt hold my front hand enough thinking back.

C.W. Richter · Sep 1, 2026

THIS is the one the old timers complained about (and did they EVER welcome the centerfires!!!) A true 4-bore muzzleloader ball is a massive lead sphere measuring approximately 1.052 inches in diameter and weighing a full quarter-pound (1,750 grains). He was breaking the old-style stock pistol grips so he/his gunsmith in the UK fashioned these "Selous Plates" out of copper for added strength (and they are found on some commercially available guns of that period.) The last pic IS Selous' .461 w/ plates sold at auction years back...

matt85 · Sep 1, 2026

C.W. Richter said:
THIS is the one the old timers complained about (and did they EVER welcome the centerfires!!!) A true 4-bore muzzleloader ball is a massive lead sphere measuring approximately 1.052 inches in diameter and weighing a full quarter-pound (1,750 grains). He was breaking the old-style stock pistol grips so he/his gunsmith in the UK fashioned these "Selous Plates" out of copper for added strength (and they are found on some commercially available guns of that period.) The last pic IS Selous' .461 w/ plates sold at auction years back...

Yes sir, I have had the privilege to fire two of those. Both a single shot and a double.

According to what I've read, the average caliber is normally around 94-98 caliber. I believe the last example I shot was a 94 caliber fully rifled double gun firing a ball of around 1450gr (rough numbers based on memory). The gun weighed in at around 24 pounds (if memory serves). The recoil was considerable! But like I was saying, not so much that it would seriously injure a shooter who knew what they were doing.

My own bore rifle is an original made in 1895, it has a 0.847" bore and weighs 16.5 pounds. It uses either a 900gr ball or a 1200gr conical. The original load is 10 drams of black powder, but I have taken to using Blue Dot to both reduce recoil and reduce the risk of corrosion in the old gun.

I personally prefer the 8-bore with a heavy conical bullet over a 4-bore with balls. This is primarily down to me being out of shape and struggling to shoulder/carry a 20-25lb rifle.

Grumpy gumpy · Sep 1, 2026

From memory Selous was injured by his bore rifle when it was double charged by his porter, I bet that would have killed at both ends
Gumpy

SStomcat · Sep 1, 2026

matt85 said:
My own bore rifle is an original made in 1895, it has a 0.847" bore and weighs 16.5 pounds. It uses either a 900gr ball or a 1200gr conical. The original load is 10 drams of black powder, but I have taken to using Blue Dot to both reduce recoil and reduce the risk of corrosion in the old gun.

I personally prefer the 8-bore with a heavy conical bullet over a 4-bore with balls. This is primarily down to me being out of shape and struggling to shoulder/carry a 20-25lb rifle.

That is some weight to shoulder and carry throughout the day specially on the hot African sun. HAve you hunted with these rifles in Africa?

matt85 · Sep 1, 2026

SStomcat said:
That is some weight to shoulder and carry throughout the day specially on the hot African sun. HAve you hunted with these rifles in Africa?

No, but that is a dream of mine!

I have thought of a few solutions to carrying the gun. I would have a custom QD sling made for the gun with two straps to enable the rifle to be worn like a backpack. I have also thought about hiring a gun bearer to carry the rifle while I carried a lighter gun (the way it used to be done). Either way, if i can find the money and time to go back to Africa... I will find a way to carry the rifle.

@Grumpy gumpy that is something I hadn't thought about. I have read it was a common problem with soldiers durring the age of muskets. I could easily see it happening in the bush while surrounded by angry elephants! Either the bearer forgets if he has loaded powder, resulting in a double charge. Or equally bad (if not worse), he loads an entire second load of powder and ball ontop of the initial load.

skydiver386 · Sep 2, 2026

matt85 said:
No, but that is a dream of mine!

I have thought of a few solutions to carrying the gun. I would have a custom QD sling made for the gun with two straps to enable the rifle to be worn like a backpack. I have also thought about hiring a gun bearer to carry the rifle while I carried a lighter gun (the way it used to be done). Either way, if i can find the money and time to go back to Africa... I will find a way to carry the rifle.

@Grumpy gumpy that is something I hadn't thought about. I have read it was a common problem with soldiers durring the age of muskets. I could easily see it happening in the bush while surrounded by angry elephants! Either the bearer forgets if he has loaded powder, resulting in a double charge. Or equally bad (if not worse), he loads an entire second load of powder and ball ontop of the initial load.

The rifle slings used by Biathlon shooters would be a good place for inspiration. The issue with the Olympic style is they were never meant for a rifle weight like the ones you'd like to hunt with. They lack any real padding and are purposely stiff so they can be slung and unslung rapidly during competition.

Some of the Tactical type might be worth a look.

Biathlon Sling 2.0

A long standing and widely used favorite, the TAB Gear Biathlon Sling has now been upgraded to afford the same comfortable carry while also allowing the shooter to more readily utilize the sling as a positional aid. The addition of two metal Quick Adjust Buckles now allows the sling to be...

www.tabgear.com

My thoughts on recoil

Tdsmith517

Gomer

mms45

dgr416

matt85

mms45

Miletic

Ontario Hunter

C.W. Richter

matt85

BTP-KennethWRoyce

Pole Pole

Nyati

mms45

C.W. Richter

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matt85

Grumpy gumpy

SStomcat

matt85

skydiver386

Biathlon Sling 2.0

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