How to be polite, but honest, about trophy quality?

The only time I will point out something that may be perceived to be “negative” is when I see people having smoke blown by their PH. All of us make mistakes – including PHs. I try to own my mistakes and laugh at them when I can. When a PH believes an animal to be mature, and upon walking up on it, it obviously is not, I believe they should own it rather than double down. If the hunt was a good hunt, it should not detract from the experience much, if at all. Perhaps he can offer that animal at a reduced price or try to work something else out. What does detract from it is when the hunter eventually learns that the guy he hunted with did not accurately represent the age of the animal(s) killed. Size is not something I am hung up on, but if you tell me to shoot a soft buffalo (which I hope I would not), and then tell me it is an awesome trophy and a mature buffalo, that is not going to be received well. An explanation, a cold Castle, and nervous laugh would be welcomed—BS is not!
 
ranger92xi said:
Let me clarify - my issue is certainly not with the hunters, who rightly should be proud of their trophies. A fully mature 19inch impala is worth every bit as much as a 24-incher and I know not everyone is obsessive about measurements.

My issue is with those outfitters (and I understand it is likely a minority of outfitters), who seem to habitually harvest immature or poor-quality trophies, often with first or second time hunters.
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Thanks for clarifying! I too did not like your initial post. However now I see your clear meaning and better understand.
 
K-man said:
If someone had asked for a trophy assessment, that is far different than offering an opinion about trophy age or quality. I have taken many trophies that don’t necessarily score well but have age or other meaning to me and me alone. I look back at some white tails I had mounted 20 or 25 years ago and I realize I let those walk for another year or two now. I would not ever offer an opinion as a scorer I would simply let the tape measure speak for itself. As others have said trophy quality is in the eye of the shooter. The outfitters that tout the trophy quality of an immature animal will be rated by pictures quite quickly.
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Yeah, I have mounted things that at the time I was over the moon about. Also, at the time adrenaline made them look like King Kong, but ground shrinkage catches up with us all. I still don't know if I can think objectively in the heat of the moment, lol.
 
If it’s a good friend of mine, I will usually say something like “that looks like a kudu, only smaller.”
 
RR 314 said:
The only time I will point out something that may be perceived to be “negative” is when I see people having smoke blown by their PH. All of us make mistakes – including PHs. I try to own my mistakes and laugh at them when I can. When a PH believes an animal to be mature, and upon walking up on it, it obviously is not, I believe they should own it rather than double down. If the hunt was a good hunt, it should not detract from the experience much, if at all. Perhaps he can offer that animal at a reduced price or try to work something else out. What does detract from it is when the hunter eventually learns that the guy he hunted with did not accurately represent the age of the animal(s) killed. Size is not something I am hung up on, but if you tell me to shoot a soft buffalo (which I hope I would not), and then tell me it is an awesome trophy and a mature buffalo, that is not going to be received well. An explanation, a cold Castle, and nervous laugh would be welcomed—BS is not!
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This is a perfect way to frame things. Mistakes happen, anyone who hunts enough will misjudge something eventually, but as you say, transparency and honesty is the way forward.
 
Rare Breed said:
Thanks for clarifying! I too did not like your initial post. However now I see your clear meaning and better understand.
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I'm glad I was able to clarify things, reading back, that OP could have been clearer, but hopefully people see where the thread is heading, towards a constructive discussion.
 
For me, trophies are not measured in inches.

Hunting equals conversation and shooting an old specimen that has passed his genetics and will provide protein that was hunted the right way will always be a trophy.

Nothing wrong with telling someone that their beautiful trophy won't make the books.
 
ranger92xi said:
I have a dilemma of sorts. A lot of friends and clients of mine show me their hunting photos from African safaris, and are very proud of them. I also see a lot of people showing off photos on this forum, and whilst some are lucky and shoot some beautiful animals, others come back with animals which, sooner or later, they will realise they should never have been charged trophy price for.

I have done 17+ safaris of my own, and I am an official SCI measurer, and so I know what good trophies, great trophies, and sub-par/immature animals look like.

So here is the question...how do we balance honesty with protecting people's feelings? How do we support hunters who have made the journey to Africa and come back with animals that they are happy with (at least for now), whilst also calling out the PHs and outfitters who pass off immature, substandard animals as trophies?

I know we cannot expect all hunters to know the record books, or be able to age animals through binoculars, and I know that sometimes, a client's age, impatience or lack of mobility, or even the weather, means shooting a marginal animal becomes a necessity, but there must be a way forward. Maybe PHASA should publish a minimum trophy standard, like NAPHA do in Namibia?

Very curious to hear everyone's thoughts.
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Unless they specifically ask just go with it’s a nice representative trophy and leave it at that. No one will appreciate you saying
Anything ill of their trophy.
 
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From my limited experience, a PH can exaggerate the quality of the animal. I shot an impala and the PH asked if he could measure it. I said sure. He told me it was 25." When I got it back from the taxidermist, as a curiosity, I measured it. No matter how I twisted or turned the tape I never got it over 23.5." I am still proud of it but he obviously stretched it.
 
Speedster said:
From my limited experience, a PH can exaggerate the quality of the animal. I shot an impala and the PH asked if he could measure it. I said sure. He told me it was 25." When I got it back from the taxidermist, as a curiosity, I measured it. No matter how I twisted or turned the tape I never got it over 23.5." I am still proud of it but he obviously stretched it.
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Imean you ever see alot of folks range estimate. Way off.

But coukd it be shrinkage after drying?
 
Another thread on this forum sometime back discussed the value or lack of value in the client understanding the trophy quality of what they were pursuing and the majority seemed in the camp of trust the PH. For the sake of clarity, when I say “trophy quality” I’m strictly speaking of scoring not someone’s personal measure of what a trophy is.
It’s important to me to be able to reasonably evaluate an animal. I know it helps to recognize the animal the PH is pointing out amongst others. I also believe a trophy is completely wasted on someone who has to be told they have a magnificent animal.
As far as mounts or pics of poor quality specimens, I keep my thoughts to myself and focus on what was their experience like.
 
ranger92xi said:
Let me clarify - my issue is certainly not with the hunters, who rightly should be proud of their trophies. A fully mature 19inch impala is worth every bit as much as a 24-incher and I know not everyone is obsessive about measurements.

My issue is with those outfitters (and I understand it is likely a minority of outfitters), who seem to habitually harvest immature or poor-quality trophies, often with first or second time hunters.
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Well… this is the issue yes.
All of us with experience have seen this many times, including hunt reports here as example.
1) if the hunter is happy (and honestly blissfully ignorant) I would not say a word. It’s like telling someone their Baby is ugly. I’ve seen a lot of ugly babies…I bite my tongue (and probably say to my wife….Damn that Baby is ugly)
2) to your point here about outfitter? Say what to who? I’m not sure… yeah there are a bunch of outfitters that shoot a bunch of rat animals. They deal with high volume operations dealing primarily with first timers and less educated hunting clientele. If they were educated… they wouldn’t hunt with these outfitters.

It’s generally a “South African thing” IMO.
Everyone has to start somewhere and honestly how many people really know the difference or care? Not that many
 
If some one is happy about the animals they take why does TROPHIES matter?

I have had the chance to take a really good for fl buck but took the smaller one because it was strange rack. I was completely happy

Took people hog hunting they have take smaller hogs with less tooth why because they like the color or markings on it and were completely happy

Had a buddy that took a smaller red phase black bear over a really good black black bear.

Now if the ph is telling some one a animal is trophy range animal . And the hunter wants a true trophy of that animal. And they don’t know it’s best to just tell them what the ph did.
 
Why? Unless they are pressuring you to provide an honest trophy/score assessment I think the comment should be “very nice, tell me about the hunt”.
 
ranger92xi said:
I have a dilemma of sorts. A lot of friends and clients of mine show me their hunting photos from African safaris, and are very proud of them. I also see a lot of people showing off photos on this forum, and whilst some are lucky and shoot some beautiful animals, others come back with animals which, sooner or later, they will realise they should never have been charged trophy price for.

I have done 17+ safaris of my own, and I am an official SCI measurer, and so I know what good trophies, great trophies, and sub-par/immature animals look like.

So here is the question...how do we balance honesty with protecting people's feelings? How do we support hunters who have made the journey to Africa and come back with animals that they are happy with (at least for now), whilst also calling out the PHs and outfitters who pass off immature, substandard animals as trophies?

I know we cannot expect all hunters to know the record books, or be able to age animals through binoculars, and I know that sometimes, a client's age, impatience or lack of mobility, or even the weather, means shooting a marginal animal becomes a necessity, but there must be a way forward. Maybe PHASA should publish a minimum trophy standard, like NAPHA do in Namibia?

Very curious to hear everyone's thoughts.
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I don’t know how to answer your question. But I’ve got a funny story about such a topic.

Around 30 years ago I was visiting a friend, Bob, who also Hunts. I had my 4 year old son with me. We walked into Bob’s lounge room and my son immediately saw a Chamois mount on the wall. My young bloke immediately yells out “Hey Dad, a chamois!”. Bob looks at me and says “bloody hell, that kid of yours is one of the few people that have even known what it is. Most people think it’s a goat.”
My young bloke continues to give the chamois a through inspection. Then, with disappointment in his voice he declares “ but it’s only a small one.”

Bob, has never forgotten nor forgiven.

And the truth is. In size it’s small. But in what matters, in real and emotional terms it’s a fantastic irreplaceable trophy.

My son is no diplomat.

My son with the last chamois he shot with me present. My first comment to him was “it’s bigger than Bob’s!” We both laughed and know that’s all that matters.

IMG_1013.jpeg
 
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Rumrunner said:
Why? Unless they are pressuring you to provide an honest trophy/score assessment I think the comment should be “very nice, tell me about the hunt”.
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Exactly (y)
 
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