7x64 or .30-06

Thank you for your responses. As much as I'd like the Sauer 7x64 (very good condition and very lightly used), I think a .30-06 may be more pragmatic, not least because of the wider availability of factory ammunition in the UK and the heavier bullet weights. I'll also check whether a .300winmag would be an option, although it might be a challenge to get permission to buy one.

Slim01 said:

I live and mainly hunt in the UK for roe deer and red deer. I've also hunted plains game in Namibia and plan to do so again within the next few years. I currently own two Tikka T3X's; a 6.5x55 and a 270win, and am authorised to own a .30-06.
I've seen a Sauer 202 for sale in 7x64 and am tempted to buy this rather than a .30-06. My think is that although similar in many ways to a .270win, it will enable be to use heavier bullets for Eland etc. This was originally going to be the role of the .30-06.
I'd welcome your thoughts on which would be most suitable.

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I'm not a 270 caliber fan, there are limited bullet size options for the .277" compared to the vastly better options for the .284". A 7x64 is far more versatile of a rifle than a 270.

A 7mm will penetrate better than a 30 caliber, so even though I own both 30-06s, 7x57s, and 7x64s, I prefer the latter two to the former.

As to 7x64 for eland, that's a bad idea. My son made a perfect heart shot and the barnes TTSX was in the valves when we recovered the animal, but recovery was exhausting and it penetrated no further than the vitals. If I was hunting Eland a 375HH is perfect, a 300HH would be minimum viable in my opinion.

txtrout75218 said:

I would also suggest considering something bigger such as a 35 Whelen, need to get Bob here @Bob Nelson 35Whelen.

In all seriousness, I agree with @grand veneur and would consider something with greater diameter, such as a 358 or 9.3 based cartridge. A 270 and 35/9.3 Africa travel combo would cover just about anything outside of DG, and only because of government regulations in some African countries more than science.

My new plains game travel setup is a 7-08 and a 35 Whelen. Mostly because we have several 708s and the 35 since I already have one. If I didn't already have the 35W I'd go 9.3x62 with you being in Europe.

If you want to ever hunt DG, then make the jump to 375 to avoid having to get another permission slip later. And I like the 9.3 over the 375.

And I have a preference for 7mm cartridges, but there is always the aspects of practically, or rules on what you can have/use..

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@txtrout75218
The Whelen in standard form is a grand old cartridge but for years has been screaming to be loaded to its full potential.
Loaded to its full potential it is an awesome cartridge that I would take on all game including buffalo. Yes I know it may be marginal but I personally think it would be fine in the right hands. But that's me.
375 300grainer @2,500 fps
9.3 320 grainer @ 2,300 fps
35 310 grainer @2,450 fps
I personally don't think a buffalo hit in the lungs with any of these will tell the difference.
If you want to step the penetration up a notch with the Whelen load up a Woodleigh 225 gn hydro to 2,900fps and ream him out from backside to breakfast. Yes there will be naysayers that will say they are marginal at best but they were getting the job done years ago ( maybe not the Whelen but the 350 Rigby did)
They are NOT STOPPING rounds but they will kill and kill well in the hands of a shooter that is willing to pick their shots.
Bob

Slim01 said:

I live and mainly hunt in the UK for roe deer and red deer. I've also hunted plains game in Namibia and plan to do so again within the next few years. I currently own two Tikka T3X's; a 6.5x55 and a 270win, and am authorised to own a .30-06.
I've seen a Sauer 202 for sale in 7x64 and am tempted to buy this rather than a .30-06. My think is that although similar in many ways to a .270win, it will enable be to use heavier bullets for Eland etc. This was originally going to be the role of the .30-06.
I'd welcome your thoughts on which would be most suitable.

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The thing about the 30-06 is that it has without question the greatest diversity in bullets of any caliber from 110 grain up to 220 grain no other caliber has this which is why i will always have a 30-06

Since we are in Europe, one should also bear in mind that soon only lead-free bullets will be permitted for hunting. Not every firearm shoots them well because of the throat and rifling of the barrel, and consequently much lighter shorter bullets often have to be used, a factor that could be disadvantageous for 7mm calibers.

Greetings Slim01,

You already have a 6.5x55 caliber rifle and a .270 Winchester one as well.
Those are both very good ones but they are generally speaking, mostly suitable for hunting the same size animals, one caliber to the other.
Those two do not have the exact same ballistics but close enough that you could possibly sell one or the other and put that money toward a larger caliber rifle.
With that thought, even though the .30-06 is a favorite of mine and can use a heavier bullet than either 6.5 or the .270 cartridge nonetheless, I think you should think about a caliber that can use even heavier bullets than .30 caliber rifles can use.

And so, I agree with those who have already suggested that you consider applying for the permit to buy a 9.3x62 Mauser caliber rifle or, a .375 H&H caliber rifle.
If you think you might ever hunt dangerous game in any country that requires the .375 as their legal minimum then, it is definitely the best choice.

However, if dangerous game hunting in any “.375 Minimum” jurisdiction is definitely not in your future plans but, your plans for returning to Africa remain serious, for eland, possibly waterbuck, zebra and other large non-dangerous African animals then, the 9.3x62 seems like the best choice for your plans.
Also to be considered is that, since you live in Europe and hunt deers plus boar there, maybe a permit for the 9.3x62 caliber might be more acceptable than the .375 Caliber would be to the Police ? (or whichever official department reviews those applications).

I suspect the 9.3x62 would be a fine red deer and large wild boar getter.
Plus, I expect it would be less destructive on meat and skins of the delicious little roe deer than the .270 / 130 grain bullet and the .30-06 / 150 grain bullet.

Best Regards,
Velo Dog.

Get the 30.06 and never worry again. It's been around a long, long time and there is a reason. It works on everything with the exception of dangerous game. Though I am reading Capstick's, The Last Ivory Hunter and Wally (who the book is about) was shooting elephants with his and even lions. Before anyone gets too upset, no you shouldn't do that. But the point is that it can do its job. With the 180-grain bullets that are much better than those Wally was shooting, you can't go wrong. And because this caliber has been around so long you can always get ammo. This doesn't mean that the other caliber won't work, it just means that the 30.06 is the standard for a reason.

Every person that calls himself a real hunter should have one, even if it only to pass along.

Slim01 said:

Thank you for your responses. As much as I'd like the Sauer 7x64 (very good condition and very lightly used), I think a .30-06 may be more pragmatic, not least because of the wider availability of factory ammunition in the UK and the heavier bullet weights. I'll also check whether a .300winmag would be an option, although it might be a challenge to get permission to buy one.

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The ability to use heavy bullets in the 30-06, not just the wide availability of ‘06 ammunition, is what favors that cartridge.

In loaded ammunition you can source 30-06 ammo with 200grn and 220grn bullets. But projectiles of 200grns, 220grns and, I believe, even 230grns (Woodleigh?) can be handloaded.

Thank you again for all of your replies to my post. The UK police require you to demonstrate good reason for each rifle you wish to acquire, so a dangerous game calibre is probably not feasible until at present, although a cape buffalo has long been on my bucket list. I understand it's also becoming hard to obtain permission to own .300winmags and similar, due to much of the UK being densely populated.
The 30.06 which I'm considering is a used Sako 85 Finnlight, so I will have a look at it and see how it feels and functions.

rookhawk said:

I'm not a 270 caliber fan, there are limited bullet size options for the .277" compared to the vastly better options for the .284". A 7x64 is far more versatile of a rifle than a 270.

A 7mm will penetrate better than a 30 caliber, so even though I own both 30-06s, 7x57s, and 7x64s, I prefer the latter two to the former.

As to 7x64 for eland, that's a bad idea. My son made a perfect heart shot and the barnes TTSX was in the valves when we recovered the animal, but recovery was exhausting and it penetrated no further than the vitals. If I was hunting Eland a 375HH is perfect, a 300HH would be minimum viable in my opinion.

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Do you think that a 7mm 175 grain a frame with a SD of .310 would penetrate enough more than a 30 caliber 200 grain a frame with a SD of .301 to notice the difference.
Both the 7x64 and 30-06 show loads with their respective bullets at 2650, but I’m guessing that 2550 would be more realistic.
The added bullet weight and cross section will make up that difference in penetration (if there is any) in my opinion.
The 7mm should achieve the same penetration with less recoil however, but the overall horsepower will be less.

Here is my take:

1. you live in the UK, so in theory:
a. stags on the hill
b. stags in English parks
c. roe locally and on the hill
d. muntjac and chinks locally
e. fallow and sika wherever they live
f. some possible exotics in the UK Pere David's, Sambar, Hog Deer, Chital

2. You can drive across the creek and visit us and those in the East
a. ibex in Spain and the Alps
b. Chamois
c. more roe
d. more sika and fallow
e. big bodied wild stags in Central European forest
f. moose and bison up north or in the east
g. driven hunts

3. Africa

So the real question isn't if you should get a 30-06 so you can load those wonderful 180-220 grain heavy for caliber bullets for big exotics, driven hunts and big stags, it's does the 30-06 offer enough over the 270 for you to grab it first.

On driven hunts I would personally rather have a 30-06 than a 7x64. For two reasons and maybe they are not want you think.
1st. I actually don't want a super high velocity long range bullet situation when there are so many people around. The 30-06 is slightly tamer with heavy bullets.
2nd. No central or eastern guides are going to question you on the 30-06 with the right bullets on big animals. I don't know if a wisent is on the menu, but I'd rather have a 220 grain heavy bullet.

I love 7x64, and we are splitting hairs, but the 30-06 is more. You have the 270 for the primary reason I would lean on the 7x64.

Actually the 6.5x55 Swede is very close to the 7x64 on penetration in heavy for caliber bullets if not beating it.

I will say one conflicting thought.
Now that you are stuck with lead free ammunition in the UK and we are leaning heavily that way in mainland Europe. The 7x64 might be better as the speed is higher. Lead free bullets love speed to work.

Slim01 said:

Thank you again for all of your replies to my post. The UK police require you to demonstrate good reason for each rifle you wish to acquire, so a dangerous game calibre is probably not feasible until at present, although a cape buffalo has long been on my bucket list. I understand it's also becoming hard to obtain permission to own .300winmags and similar, due to much of the UK being densely populated.
The 30.06 which I'm considering is a used Sako 85 Finnlight, so I will have a look at it and see how it feels and functions.

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IF a cape buffalo in in your thinking take the 30.06 idea out. The smallest thing they will let you use is a 375.

Muskox said:

Here is my take:

1. you live in the UK, so in theory:
a. stags on the hill
b. stags in English parks
c. roe locally and on the hill
d. muntjac and chinks locally
e. fallow and sika wherever they live
f. some possible exotics in the UK Pere David's, Sambar, Hog Deer, Chital

2. You can drive across the creek and visit us and those in the East
a. ibex in Spain and the Alps
b. Chamois
c. more roe
d. more sika and fallow
e. big bodied wild stags in Central European forest
f. moose and bison up north or in the east
g. driven hunts

3. Africa

So the real question isn't if you should get a 30-06 so you can load those wonderful 180-220 grain heavy for caliber bullets for big exotics, driven hunts and big stags, it's does the 30-06 offer enough over the 270 for you to grab it first.

On driven hunts I would personally rather have a 30-06 than a 7x64. For two reasons and maybe they are not want you think.
1st. I actually don't want a super high velocity long range bullet situation when there are so many people around. The 30-06 is slightly tamer with heavy bullets.
2nd. No central or eastern guides are going to question you on the 30-06 with the right bullets on big animals. I don't know if a wisent is on the menu, but I'd rather have a 220 grain heavy bullet.

I love 7x64, and we are splitting hairs, but the 30-06 is more. You have the 270 for the primary reason I would lean on the 7x64.

Actually the 6.5x55 Swede is very close to the 7x64 on penetration in heavy for caliber bullets if not beating it.

I will say one conflicting thought.
Now that you are stuck with lead free ammunition in the UK and we are leaning heavily that way in mainland Europe. The 7x64 might be better as the speed is higher. Lead free bullets love speed to work.

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Use the Barnes TSX bullets. They are great for anything the 30.06 can harvest. It's an all copper bullet. The only problem is that you will need to reload. I don't know if you can but a commercial version.

Dhutson said:

IF a cape buffalo in in your thinking take the 30.06 idea out. The smallest thing they will let you use is a 375.

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Sorry, I should have been clearer. I'll apply for a .375 or similar if/when I book a cape buffalo; I can then demonstrate good reason to the police for owning such a calibre.

Wyatt Smith said:

Do you think that a 7mm 175 grain a frame with a SD of .310 would penetrate enough more than a 30 caliber 200 grain a frame with a SD of .301 to notice the difference.
Both the 7x64 and 30-06 show loads with their respective bullets at 2650, but I’m guessing that 2550 would be more realistic.
The added bullet weight and cross section will make up that difference in penetration (if there is any) in my opinion.
The 7mm should achieve the same penetration with less recoil however, but the overall horsepower will be less.

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Hard to say. I don’t hate any of the options, I just know I’ve had great luck with the 7mm versatility whether 175gr or 140gr, it opens up many options with excellent BCs. I’ve never played with the 125s but they are great too. The 30-06 doesn’t have the lighter grain flexibility for smaller animals because of the larger diameter making for worse BCs. On the heavy side, the 30-06 has them beat but one is probably better off with a 300HH if they want a powerful 220gr-240gr load for heavy game.

I’m strongly biased in favor of 6.5x55, 7x57, and 7x64/7x65r for medium sized game calibers. I like 300HH for bigger stuff, and 375HH for one do all Africa rifle. The 270 and ‘06 don’t seem to have a defining niche that works better for me than the calibers on opposite sides of them.

Sorry to be so specific, but if i was going to buy a 30-06, one of the most versatile cartridges on earth, and routinely the favorite of African PH's I have met. I would buy the following rigle that i will pass on to my son- Winchester 30-06 Model 70 Super Grade in Curly/Tiger Stripe Maple.

Dhutson said:

Use the Barnes TSX bullets. They are great for anything the 30.06 can harvest. It's an all copper bullet. The only problem is that you will need to reload. I don't know if you can but a commercial version.

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There is zero need to reload 7x64 if you live in Europe.

On line here in Germany at one retailer I found the following 13 of them are in stock in lead free.

Barnes
Blaser
Brenneke
Federal Ammunition
Geco
Hornady
Lapua
Norma
RWS
Sellier & Bellot

In Britain all the bigger firearm stores can order him a case of any of those.

Europeans pay through the nose for ammunition.

I bought two boxes of 6.5 CM Hornady ELD-X and it was 150 Euros or about $175 for the privilege.

Blaser, Brenneke, RWS, Norma and Lapua are similar prices $80-150 a box depending on cartridge

Geco and smelly belly are $62usd for a box

Federal, barnes, 80$ usd for a box

The Sauer 202 is discontinued, but it has several barrels to swap with , since it is system weapon , stocks and scopemounts of many types . So in one action both 7mm , 30, up to 9,3 you can have and below 7mm also .