Get experience first? Or, hunt dangerous game right away?

You’re planning your first safari. Which route did/would you take on your journey?

  • Go on a plains game hunt first. Get experience with the game and take a few choice trophies.

    Votes: 46 39.3%

  • Go “all in”. Take choice plains game trophies at the same time as the bush provide

    Votes: 71 60.7%
  • Total voters
    117
1) Build up to dangerous game - enjoy the journey. BTW - the Swahili word for "Journey" is Safari...
2) A PH taking a newbie client on a dangerous game hunt is a very different dangerous game hunt than that same PH taking someone with a lot more experience with a gun, in the bush, around other people, around wild animals - ie, you'll pay for a dangerous game hunt but not get the dangerous game experience.
3) There's a Social Media hunter (who's name I won't mention) that is doing everything "early" without really earning it or even understanding it. During his quest for the waterfowl slam, he actually posted pictures of himself with a Mexican Duck while calling it a Black Duck, and a hen scaup calling it a hen ring-necked duck. This "hunter" is basically proving that he's chasing someone else's dream not his own. The Dunning-Kruger curve really applies here...
4) In duck hunting terms enjoy the teal first, then the canvasback will mean so much more.

This is just my opinion because I'm retired and had the time to post a response. It's your money do what you want with it. Good Luck and send pictures.
 
Chris Burger said:
Brian — that's a rare thing to put into words, and you've done it beautifully. "Through fear and out the other side" is exactly right. I've watched that same change come over a man in the last ten minutes of a stalk more times than I can count: the wobble goes, the world slows, and the sights just settle. You call it "deadly focused" — I've always thought of it as the animal finally having your full, undivided attention, the way almost nothing in ordinary life ever does.

The Anthony Hopkins line fits perfectly. There's something about a creature that can look back at you — and end you — that strips away everything unimportant and leaves you more awake than you've been in years. I've come to think that's the real reason men keep coming back for buffalo; it isn't the horns, it's those ten minutes.

Nineteen buffalo and still welcoming that flicker — that's a man who understands what he's doing out there. Thank you for sharing it; posts like this are why the thread's worth reading. Here's to the next stalk, and that satisfying shove of the .577. — Chris
Click to expand...
Kindred spirits! I am booked for 10 Australia water buffalo in July of 2027 with A.J. Corbett, Australian Outback Buffalo Safaris. This will be my first time in Australia.

A big thing about this hunt is the location in Arnhem Land in the "Top End" of Northern Territory, Australia. It is characterized as being similar to remote places in Africa, a hundred years ago. The fly-in camp is in a very remote area on the eastern side of Kakadu National Park. It is ancient Aboriginal land.

I will be using my 50-110 Winchester, TC Encore single-shot with CEB bullets at about 2,150 fps.
I know that they really fold up cape buffalo so they are probably A-1 on the bigger Australian water buffalo.

Happy hunting, Brian
 
I say hunt whatever excites you most. At 70 I took my first trip to Africa and it was to Botswana for bull elephant. It turned out to be the most wonderful and exciting hunt of my life. At my age I don't feel I have time to start with the PG and work my way up to DG, not that I will or will not die soon, but the health problems keep adding up and who knows how many good years I have left. I was born and raised on a farm and began killing things when I was old enough to throw rocks, I am a natural born hunter with real world common sense and see no reason to work my way up the ladder of hunting by starting out with PG . I love hunting the big stuff , always have.
 
Tanks said:
The most notable hunter that got killed this year was hunting PG with a shotgun when they ran into a group of cow elephants with calves.

Now, I don't know the details, in Zimbabwe in DG country the PH always has a stopping rifle, not sure if his PH did. After I was done with elephant and buffalo and switched to my .300 RUM, for PG, from my .500 my PH still carried his .470. Heck, we came across lion tracks, heard elephants in the bush etc., so it was the right thing to do.
Click to expand...
Reportedly the PH did have a rifle but the attack was sudden and the PH was thrown clear of his rifle and injured by one of the animals at the onset of the attack.
 
Brian said:
The 458 Lott is great choice. You have a good plan and a great attitude ! I like your way of taking older animals. The last year that i hunted plains game i asked the PH to just show me the old set animals in the herds. Man, I did some walking on that hunt. Those old animals are smart!

There are lots of good lead bullets, what makes will you be using for Buffalo? I am always interested in the bullets. Brian
Click to expand...
Hello Brian
I am leaning to the BIGGER is better for all DG with lead bullets.
I will cast my own bullets for this safari .
Here is my first choice 705 gr lead bullet 30 BHN LEAD MIX 7% TIN 6% ANTIMONY 87% LEAD in the 458 lott which will put me above the 500 nitro class for stopping power on paper L.O.L.

458 lott 705 gr lead bullet at 2150 fps will give a Taylor knock out 99.4 and 7234.9 foot pounds
I may not need 2150 fps may be 2000 fps will do well.

The 500 nitro factory load 3 and 3.25 inch 570 gr bullet at 2150 fps will give a Taylor knock out of 89.3 and 5849.49 foot pounds

Waiting on my two 458 lott to arrive in August.
One is a full custom ordered CZ 550
The other is a cabala’s CF model 70 458 win mag being converted to 458 lott
The work on the rifles is by Tim at Matrix Gunsmithing in Colorado

For PG and Lion I am going old school 350 or 450 gr lead bullet in the 2300 fps range
20 to 1 lead mix 5% tin 95% lead this was the standard lead mix back in the 1800’s


705 gr 458 lott.JPG
 
You are going to a have a wonderful time. In fact you already are! I was the same on my second cape buffalo hunt. I made my own cast bullets, 700 grain, 577 NE. Three cows, on shot each.

Like you, I had a ball preparing for the hunt. My rifle was, no laughing please, a H&R 10 ga. with stub barrel conversion to .577 NE.

Much of the excitement and satisfaction of our adventures is in the preparation. I admire you for putting effort and thought into your preparation. I went back and read your original post in this thread and definitely get the impression that you are going to enjoy and appreciate ever part of you hunt. Good man! You are doing it right. Brian
 
Brian said:
You are going to a have a wonderful time. In fact you already are! I was the same on my second cape buffalo hunt. I made my own cast bullets, 700 grain, 577 NE. Three cows, on shot each.

Like you, I had a ball preparing for the hunt. My rifle was, no laughing please, a H&R 10 ga. with stub barrel conversion to .577 NE.

Much of the excitement and satisfaction of our adventures is in the preparation. I admire you for putting effort and thought into your preparation. I went back and read your original post in this thread and definitely get the impression that you are going to enjoy and appreciate ever part of you hunt. Good man! You are doing it right. Brian
Click to expand...
The 10 gage makes a lot of sense ,I have one setting in the safe I do not hunt gees any more .
It has a 36 inch barrel on it .
The 577 NE is a interesting caliber
THINKING
I did pick up a mold the other day for the 577
 
David jr said:
The 10 gage makes a lot of sense ,I have one setting in the safe I do not hunt gees any more .
It has a 36 inch barrel on it .
The 577 NE is a interesting caliber
THINKING
I did pick up a mold the other day for the 577
Click to expand...
Oh-0h! Now I have done it!

I can see you moving through the cast bullet phase of your life some day like I did. I am not saying that you should pass through it, I just happening eventually for many DG bullet casters.

Someday, if you haven't already, You may come across Michael McCourry's bullet R&D work. He is know as Michael458 here. You see his stuff at B&M Rifle and Cartridges and occasionally here on africahunting.com His innovative design work came to a peak over a decade ago in the development of the Raptor and #13 Solid bullet that is now manufactured by Cutting Edge Bullets. Michael and his pal, Sam Rose basically "invented a better mouse trap." in both the Raptor and the #13 Solid. It was so unconventional at the time that it has taken over a decade for the typically traditionally minded hunter to get used to it.

I could tell you how well it kills cape buffalo but generally speaking the Safari Raptor in a 458 cal or bigger cal. kills a cape buffalo so efficiently that you have to see it to believe it. At least that has been my experience with the PH's response to it's outstanding terminal ballistics. I have used this Raptor bullet in .500 cal and bigger, and it has been a long time since I had to hit a buffalo twice.

My experience with casting my own bullets for hunting cape buffalo was the high-water mark of my hunting career at the time. I an thankful that I did it. I am not suggesting that you should do anything other than what you are doing now, casting your own DG Bullets. But if you get to that fork in the road where you are looking for something new, as I did, then CEB bullets are one of the things to check out. Meanwhile you are now miles ahead of most hunters. Very few people cast their own hard-cast DG bullets. And I thing your bullets, as you show them, will fold up dangerous game. ( I should mention that the only DG I have hunted are cape buffalo.)

Thanks for telling us about your experience, I definitely appreciate. Please keep us posted. You are an outstanding loader and hunter. Happy Hunting, Brian
 
Brian, that's beautifully put — and it matches what I've watched from a step behind the shooter more times than I can count. There's a stillness that settles over the right hunter in those last few yards: the fidgeting stops, the breathing drops, the man goes quiet inside. The ones who find that place almost always make the shot; the ones who can't, don't — and no rifle saves them.

I've come to think guiding buffalo is a strange privilege for exactly that reason — you get to stand at the edge of that "spiritual space" you describe, over and over, in other men, and feel it second-hand every time. And the Anthony Hopkins line is perfect: ten minutes that hold more life than most people get in years.

"Get close, use good bullets, and enjoy every second" — I might have that put on a sign at the gate. Well said, Brian.
 
My first antelope hunt was a gruesome experience. I'll spare the details but I had to shoot him multiple times at very close range to finish him off. Extremely tough to watch him struggle for what seemed like an eternity but was probably 20 minutes. Luckily, a couple weekends later I made a great shot on my first mule deer buck and he was dead within seconds. I think that really helped me deal with that screw up on the antelope. Can't tell you what to do, but getting back on the horse and working through it helped me for sure. Thanks for sharing.
 
Brian said:
Oh-0h! Now I have done it!

I can see you moving through the cast bullet phase of your life some day like I did. I am not saying that you should pass through it, I just happening eventually for many DG bullet casters.

Someday, if you haven't already, You may come across Michael McCourry's bullet R&D work. He is know as Michael458 here. You see his stuff at B&M Rifle and Cartridges and occasionally here on africahunting.com His innovative design work came to a peak over a decade ago in the development of the Raptor and #13 Solid bullet that is now manufactured by Cutting Edge Bullets. Michael and his pal, Sam Rose basically "invented a better mouse trap." in both the Raptor and the #13 Solid. It was so unconventional at the time that it has taken over a decade for the typically traditionally minded hunter to get used to it.

I could tell you how well it kills cape buffalo but generally speaking the Safari Raptor in a 458 cal or bigger cal. kills a cape buffalo so efficiently that you have to see it to believe it. At least that has been my experience with the PH's response to it's outstanding terminal ballistics. I have used this Raptor bullet in .500 cal and bigger, and it has been a long time since I had to hit a buffalo twice.

My experience with casting my own bullets for hunting cape buffalo was the high-water mark of my hunting career at the time. I an thankful that I did it. I am not suggesting that you should do anything other than what you are doing now, casting your own DG Bullets. But if you get to that fork in the road where you are looking for something new, as I did, then CEB bullets are one of the things to check out. Meanwhile you are now miles ahead of most hunters. Very few people cast their own hard-cast DG bullets. And I thing your bullets, as you show them, will fold up dangerous game. ( I should mention that the only DG I have hunted are cape buffalo.)

Thanks for telling us about your experience, I definitely appreciate. Please keep us posted. You are an outstanding loader and hunter. Happy Hunting, Brian
Click to expand...

Thank you for the encouraging words and understand what I am doing with lead on DG and PG .
I am not new to lead bullets I Founded Hunters Supply cast bullets and have given the company to my daughter to run and I have retired .
Now I have the time to really get into what is needed in the lead bullets for DG I have found the 7% tin 6% antimony and 87 % lead is what the caster is needing this lead mix will be a 30 BHN and will not shatter like lanotype and this lead mix is working very well with high speed high pressure for lead . I have used this lead up to 2800 fps without leading with the palmer coating and gas check and modern smokeless bullet lube . This is the time to be casting bullets , every thing is on the market and easily acquired .
Yes I do know CEB bullets and Yes his 450 solid 458 is what I am using for setting my test parameters . for the lead bullet to meet or beat I think the 705 gr 458 LEAD BULLET will beat The CEB 450 458 in penetration .Yes the CEB 450 gr 458 solid will go through 80 inches of 20% gel blocks but I believe the 705 lead 458 will equal this The nose is the same as the CEB 450 gr
Look what I was able to do with the tiny 450 bush master in the what I did you reload today section.
I made a baby 458 L.O.L. with a 50 Taylor knock out ,above the 375 and just under the great 416 Rigby I have a friend using this rifle and bullet 450 BM on some wild bulls as I right this for real world testing .
Keep a eye on my elephant head testing on here
Keep in touch we have a lot to discus .
David Jr
 
David jr said:
Thank you for the encouraging words and understand what I am doing with lead on DG and PG .
I am not new to lead bullets I Founded Hunters Supply cast bullets and have given the company to my daughter to run and I have retired .
Now I have the time to really get into what is needed in the lead bullets for DG I have found the 7% tin 6% antimony and 87 % lead is what the caster is needing this lead mix will be a 30 BHN and will not shatter like lanotype and this lead mix is working very well with high speed high pressure for lead . I have used this lead up to 2800 fps without leading with the palmer coating and gas check and modern smokeless bullet lube . This is the time to be casting bullets , every thing is on the market and easily acquired .
Yes I do know CEB bullets and Yes his 450 solid 458 is what I am using for setting my test parameters . for the lead bullet to meet or beat I think the 705 gr 458 LEAD BULLET will beat The CEB 450 458 in penetration .Yes the CEB 450 gr 458 solid will go through 80 inches of 20% gel blocks but I believe the 705 lead 458 will equal this The nose is the same as the CEB 450 gr
Look what I was able to do with the tiny 450 bush master in the what I did you reload today section.
I made a baby 458 L.O.L. with a 50 Taylor knock out ,above the 375 and just under the great 416 Rigby I have a friend using this rifle and bullet 450 BM on some wild bulls as I right this for real world testing .
Keep a eye on my elephant head testing on here
Keep in touch we have a lot to discus .
David Jr
Click to expand...
Man, I apologize, I was preaching to the choir. You are way ahead of me on bullets. Can I take most of what I said in my last post back?

My bullets that I cast for that one hunt with my 577NE were 22 BHN and they worked ok but not perfectl on cape buffalo at terminal velocity of about 1,800 fps.Your 30 BHN with no shattering is awesome. Yes, that flat nose of the CEB #13 Solid, 67% of bullet diameter is thought to be ideal. ( Most of what I know about terminal ballistics I learned from Michael458.)


Can you tell if your bullets are doing that cavitation thing, (air space on the sides of the bullet.) that is said to be a big factor in deep straight line penetration? I am just curious.
Also, please tell me about the palmer coating. I want to do bit more casting for my 500 S&W (TC encore) for my grandson.

Yes sir, David I am going to follow your work with great interest! Thanks again for your posts. I am also going to google Hunter Supply cast bullets. I think that you are probably one of the few truly knowledgable bullet aficionados on here. I am a real bullet nerd but I am not in your league at all. I have already learned from you, and I love learning things. Like you, I think, I am fortunate to not be the sort of hunter that just soaks up the bullet marketing dogma. I am excited to meet independent thinking researchers, and innovators like you.

Your 705 grain 458 lead bullet will be a hammer.
Also, I will whip over to "What did you reload today" to check out you work with the 450 Bush master.

Thanks again for speaking up. Brian
 
Helo Brian
go to Michael 458 and me posting on

Cast Lead vs Monolithic Solids for Serious Work....................​

you will get a lot out of it and see how I have done a lot with lead
 
David jr said:
Helo Brian
go to Michael 458 and me posting on

Cast Lead vs Monolithic Solids for Serious Work....................​

you will get a lot out of it and see how I have done a lot with lead
Click to expand...
Thanks for the "heads up" I will go there, Brian
 
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