Just brain storming....450/400 for AK Brown Bear

Bandera said:

The 450 NE is a different cartridge than the 450-400 NE
The 450-400 NE has three lengths the 2 3/8, 3” and 3 1/4 lengths.
Most common these days is 450-400 3”.
The 450-400 uses a .411 dia. bullet.
The 450 NE uses a .458 dia. bullet.

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Thanks for posting this, you beat me to it. Big differences in 450 NE and 450/400.

I would take a bolt action even then a 100 yard charge is like 3 seconds super quick .I lived in Alaska 12 years and Grizzlies are a differnt animal than blackbears they keep biting even through they are dead on their feet .A guy I knew was in the book Alaska Bear tales which you should read .A kodiak attacked him after being shot with a 375 hh .The bear was on top of him biting him and his friend shot and hit the bear and his friend with 340 weatherby .It shattered his leg in many places then he shot the besr in the head .Another friend of mine was an assitant guide and he and the client got charged and the bear was shot 3 times with 358 norma mag and 3 times with 416 taylor with 400 gr barnes x bullets .It went 100 yards in a few seconds shot 6 times died at their feet .It was a 10 foot coastal bear huge .My taxidermist went and shot a 10 foot 6 bear with a 375 hh three times at 20 years almost got him .I would not hunt Ak with a single shot !

Watch the youtube from the channel stuckintherut they shot a giz at i think 700 yards twice then their 338 ulra mag jammed from a blown primer .The bear stalked them and they had to shoot it point blank with a 454 pistol 5 or 6ntimes .It almost got both of them griz keep bitimg after dead on their feet .

Muskox said:

there are dudes that kill them with sharpened sticks. by comparison your rifle is a howitzer.

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I’m sure Native Americans killed hibernating brown bear in their dens while they slumbered but ain’t no one killing a fully awake brown bear or grizzly with a spear!

TheDoubleD said:

I have a Ruger 1 in 450/40-3"NE. I have worked up loads with RL15 and Barnes 300 TSX bullet. I have not chronographed these load-yet, but 100 yard accuracy is under one inch.

I have taken one medium size Canada black bear with this combination. Side by side full penetration, including passing through one rib and heart. Entrance wound was large enough to bleed. Exit wound was much larger and drained lots of blood. Bear ran straight ahead and dropped in 20 yards.

But Black bear is a Brown bear.

Would these 300 grain bullets be adequate for Alaska Brown bear? What velocity would be optimal for AK Brown Bear with this bullet?

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I would highly recommend the 400Gr Barnes TSX at a velocity of 2100 FPS. Excellent brown bear medicine.

Back when I hunted my first Alaskan Kodiak bear in 1973, the standard Alaskan bear caliber was the .338 Winchester Magnum. Always employing the old 300Gr Winchester Power Point cartridge.

dgr416 said:

Watch the youtube from the channel stuckintherut they shot a giz at i think 700 yards twice then their 338 ulra mag jammed from a blown primer .The bear stalked them and they had to shoot it point blank with a 454 pistol 5 or 6ntimes .It almost got both of them griz keep bitimg after dead on their feet .

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700 yard shots at a grizzly? WTF? That’s what they get for pulling a ridiculous dumb ass stunt. People like those idiots shouldn’t be hunting at all.

Hififile324 said:

I also might ad, Roy R. Lindsley harvested a world-record Alaska brown bear on Kodiak Island in 1952, using a .30-06 and Winchester Power Point cartridges!

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power points or SilverTips?

With constant rain and coastal (salty) conditions being a good possibility, a weather resistant rifle in 30-06 to .338wm would be more sensible but your rig would work.

The 450-400, 3" is a nice little DG cartridge. Loaded up a bit with a good bullet, like you have done, brings the best out in it.
Definitely a lion and brown bear cartridge, although I have never hunted either.
I am a cape buffalo hunter and consider the cartridge in factory loading to be a bit over rated for cape buffalo, mostly because of that Hornady bullet.
A .410 cal. bullet has much superior terminal performance to a .30 cal bullet on a big tough animal, all other factors being equal. ( No offence to the good old 300 WM.)

You can really get "high performance" out of your Ruger No.1, 450-400 NE with your 300 grain bullet. As with most strong single shots you can extend the throat and seat your good monolithic bullet out a ways, increasing the room for more powder. ( Higher velocity with out increasing the pressure, usually.) I am guessing that you can reach 2,600 fps with your 300 grain bullet, but that is just speculation from me, and I don't think that you "need" that increased power for North America.

For comparison, the .375HH, 300 grains 2,500 fps MV.
The .45-70 loaded warm will push the 300 grain bullet at 2,500 fps. And that is a .458 cal bullet!

If I had your rifle and cartridge, I might just extend the throat for personal satisfaction and load either NorthFork or CEB bullets. ( They have very impressive terminal ballistics.)
Regardless You are "good to go" on Alaskan brow bears with what you have.

Also, it is proven that one can learn to reload a single shot quickly. I usually use a single shot for cape buffalo in 500 or .577NE. I like single shots for cape buffalo which is for me, close range work.
ou know that a single shot is usually a few inches shoter that a bolt action with the sam barrel length.
My .50-110 TC Encore is only 40 inches oal. same as a 30-30 saddle gun, I believe.

Good hunting, Brian

TheDoubleD said:

I don't know, I have never hunted Brown Bear, I have no experience. That's why I asked?

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Its all about where you but the hole at the end of the day thats more important than how big it is.

Your cartridge will be more than sufficient

I agree, but the quality of the bullet is very important too.

dlmac said:

Shot a Russian brown bear with a 338 federal, not advised. Shot several big black bears with a 308 win and no problems. Like many said the range would be the issue. I did not know that the 450-400 was also AKA 450 NE.

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It is not two different calibers with the 450 being at the bottom of a stopping caliber and the 450-400 below that

dgr416 said:

I would take a bolt action even then a 100 yard charge is like 3 seconds super quick .I lived in Alaska 12 years and Grizzlies are a differnt animal than blackbears they keep biting even through they are dead on their feet .A guy I knew was in the book Alaska Bear tales which you should read .A kodiak attacked him after being shot with a 375 hh .The bear was on top of him biting him and his friend shot and hit the bear and his friend with 340 weatherby .It shattered his leg in many places then he shot the besr in the head .Another friend of mine was an assitant guide and he and the client got charged and the bear was shot 3 times with 358 norma mag and 3 times with 416 taylor with 400 gr barnes x bullets .It went 100 yards in a few seconds shot 6 times died at their feet .It was a 10 foot coastal bear huge .My taxidermist went and shot a 10 foot 6 bear with a 375 hh three times at 20 years almost got him .I would not hunt Ak with a single shot !

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yeah. i have a couple of larry kanuits books. all true stories and nothing i would ever want to happen. the problem with griz, like cape buffalo, is they just dont know they are dead even if u put a perfect shot in the boiler room if their “blood is up.”. the issue with both is: 1) an extra large adrenal gland keeps them in the fight even if mortally wounded. 2) very low heart rate. as long as there is oxygen in the brain, the body keeps going. hence people getting torn to shreds by an animal that has taken one through the boiler room and doesnt know hes dead yet. 3) just very grumpy animals to begin with, that hold grudges. both animals have been known to circle back on their own tracks to ambush anyone/anything stalking them. 4) both can cover a lot of ground in a hurry. bears can cover 100 yds in 6 seconds.

i cant load a single shot fast enough to be comfortable hunting something that will happily hunt u back, much less have to go into the thick stuff to finish things off.

my humble 2 cents gents

DLSJR said:

700 yard shots at a grizzly? WTF? That’s what they get for pulling a ridiculous dumb ass stunt. People like those idiots shouldn’t be hunting at all.

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shooting at range defeats the purpose of dangerous game hunting. I saw that video. Complete morons that were lucky that he had a back up sidearm because that bear was coming to get em.

The cartridge and bullet will be more than sufficient if you keep ranges moderate. The single shot rifle could be a handicap, I have shot some grizzlies and one Kodiak bear. All received multiple shots, not because the first shot didnt or wouldnt kill it, but because I dont want to dig a bear out of the alders or willows. I was hunting without a guide as a resident, having a guide could change things, but he may be shooting if the bear is heading for cover and you are not able to get repeat hits in a timely manner. My Kodiak bear took a 270 TSX through the chest from a .375 H&H at 230 yards and headed for an alder patch. I hit it twice more before it reached the alders stopping it. The first shot was fatal, but I dont relish going into thick coastal brush after a bear.

I've got a stainless/synthetic .338 Win Mag and a .340 Weatherby Mag (scoped bolt actions) to use when I have a chance at a coastal grizzly, however, I believe your choice of rifle/cartridge should be just fine.

Get your guide's input.


My black bear succumbed to an arrow within 30 yards of where I shot it.

dgr416 said:

Watch the youtube from the channel stuckintherut they shot a giz at i think 700 yards twice then their 338 ulra mag jammed from a blown primer .The bear stalked them and they had to shoot it point blank with a 454 pistol 5 or 6ntimes .It almost got both of them griz keep bitimg after dead on their feet .

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They botched a lot of stuff. Not exactly a "how you do it" video...

Bullet construction, shot placement, personal restraint.

To me the cartridge would do the job within reasonable distance for it. Assuming you are going with a guide who can back you up with a second shot that part is covered as well. Definitely talk to your guide and find out typical shot distances and his thoughts on you bringing it. Is the rifle stainless? If you're hunting coastal areas or into September be prepared for it to be wet. Possibly very wet if coastal.

My best friend Lyod was attacked by a griz on the 4vwheeler once .He had taken 7 moose with 7 shots using my 338 win mag stainless model 70 .The bear jumped on the back of his 4 wheeler and bit the seat and tried to knock him off of it .He took off with his soninlaw and turned around after sbout 200 yards .They figired they better kill the bear or someone would get killed .They went back and it charged them full force at 100 yards .They both shot 7 times both with 338 win mags .The bear only had one eye and was just 350 pounds but 7 foot .The bears lumgs and heart were jelly but it kept coming .Loyd would not hunt that area again after that .I also had friends that shot grizzlies with shotgun slugs and had to shoot them 10 times crazy .Yep I wouldnt use a single shot on them for sure .I bought 416 rem mag bolt actions just for bears in Alaska used them 12 years best indurance policy i ever bought .

My dad and I took our Russian brown bears with a .30-06. It was not our preferred caliber for such an endeavor, but it was the rifle that was available to us. The bullets were whatever the outfitter happened to have on hand. With proper shot placement all of the bears were clearly well-hurt with our first shots, but the guides highly encouraged us with much shouting to put 2-4 additional shots into each bear as insurance. Ranges were <50-70 yards. I personally would prefer a bolt action in order to have additional shots on tap in the case that they are needed. The bears squared out from about 8' 6" to 9' 7". I probably could have stretched my 9' 7" bear to 10' for the measuring tape but I don't care about size (that much). I haven't hunted Alaska so can't comment on typical encounter ranges or circumstances of engagement. As with any game, shot placement is the #1 factor.