Bullet tip deformation under recoil - lesson learned

deewayne2003

deewayne2003

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This deer season I have been using my BRNO 602 .375H&H and while hunting I continued to top off the magazine after putting down several deer and pigs, this weekend when I went to unload the magazine I notice something off about the tip of the last bullet in the magazine.

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I've read before about bullet tip deformation in the magazine box as the cartridges move forward under recoil, but this is the first time I've experienced it; I estimate that this cartridge had been in the magazine for roughly 7 shots.

Granted these are not premium bullets - these are Midway factory seconds that I ordered hundreds of to use in practice as well as pig/deer hunting.
 
deewayne2003 said:
This deer season I have been using my BRNO 602 .375H&H and while hunting I continued to top off the magazine after putting down several deer and pigs, this weekend when I went to unload the magazine I notice something off about the tip of the last bullet in the magazine.

View attachment 731403

View attachment 731404
I've read before about bullet tip deformation in the magazine box as the cartridges move forward under recoil, but this is the first time I've experienced it; I estimate that this cartridge had been in the magazine for roughly 7 shots.

Granted these are not premium bullets - these are Midway factory seconds that I ordered hundreds of to use in practice as well as pig/deer hunting.
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How's your overall length? Are you seating the bullets too deeply? Check the magazine internal length. Might be too much space at the forward end. May need to add a spacer to keep cartridges at back of the box.
 
lol, yeah I have been there done that, with my .300wm , shoot, kill, top off, the bottom bullet went 10-15 times on the bottom, but it didn’t seem to effect the performance, hell I don’t know what to say about that
 
I’ve seen this before with less expensive hunting ammunition. Does anyone have a clue what the impact on precision will be out to let’s say 200m? Perhaps the impact is so little that we should not worry too much about it? Or perhaps there is a big baboon out there alive because of this :)
 
VertigoBE said:
I’ve seen this before with less expensive hunting ammunition. Does anyone have a clue what the impact on precision will be out to let’s say 200m? Perhaps the impact is so little that we should not worry too much about it? Or perhaps there is a big baboon out there alive because of this :)
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My 6mm with the federal 80gr factory load will do that after 3 shots to the last cartridge in the mag.
On the ranger to 100yds it made no difference for my stuff.
 
I’ve often wondered if this might be the cause of Barnes bullets “penciling” through.
 
I have experienced this a lot w old nosler or sierra soft points in my dad's old 30-06. Cant remember which. Green paper box.

No noticeable POI change under 100 yards. I usually scrape off the grossly deformed bit with a knife and keep hunting.

It'll happen inside the plastic storage boxes as well unless you put a light piece of foam in the inside of the lid.
 
lhook7 said:
I’ve often wondered if this might be the cause of Barnes bullets “penciling” through.
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Yes. Any hollow point can have it's performance severely reduced by bending the bullet nose inward. The older TSX in small calibers were probably more susceptible to this than the larger calibers, thus the introduction of the TTSX.
 
It will happen to the plastic tips on bullets like the accubond etc. I don't think there is any performance impact until you get to pretty long ranges.
 
Happens to all rounds in the magazine with one shot with my .35 Whelen and 250 grain Nosler Partitions. Not quite to that extent, but pretty common in my experience. I imagine by shot 7 they would look like that. I would be more concerned about the fact that it appears that the bullet has been driven deeper in the case. Seating depth variations are apt to cause more issues than a deformed tip.
 
I'd be more concerned that the bullet seems to have a fair bit of setback vs the left one. Common issue with high recoil, I've been fighting this with my .338, even with heavy crimps.

Far as the tip being boogerd up, sand the excess off and use it. It won't hurt anything. That little bit of exposed lead at the tip doesn't do anything.
 
Ontario Hunter said:
How's your overall length? Are you seating the bullets too deeply? Check the magazine internal length. Might be too much space at the forward end. May need to add a spacer to keep cartridges at back of the box.
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Guess I missed your photos. If anything, it appears you are seating the bullets long as the case rim is not reaching the bullet's cannelure. A bit of deformation is not unusual for my 30-06 but that is pretty extreme. The cartridges must be moving around in the magazine box quite a bit. Manufacturers don't make mag boxes specific for each caliber, but rather one size box for several calibers. Obviously this is a magnum action and therefore mag box is likely made to fit many of the larger longer cartridges and accept oversize blunt nose DGR solid loads. Caliper the length of the mag box at top and then at bottom. If you have a hinged floorplate (likely), the opening for mag box may have been machined from the bottom. There could be "drift" or wider dimension opening at bottom than top. Then cartridges in the bottom of the box would be more prone to movement during recoil. If I encountered this issue I'd look at shrinking the length of box opening at the front with a shim. Hardwood should do the trick. Drill a couple of holes through the shim to help anchor it to mag box guts with epoxy. Once the slop has been eliminated the cartridges won't have enough room to develop inertia from recoil and smash bullet tips.
 
I have the same issue with several of my magnums and with ELD-Ms and Xs, I have yet to see a difference in impact even shooting out to 800yds.
 
Choupique said:
I'd be more concerned that the bullet seems to have a fair bit of setback vs the left one. Common issue with high recoil, I've been fighting this with my .338, even with heavy crimps.

Far as the tip being boogerd up, sand the excess off and use it. It won't hurt anything. That little bit of exposed lead at the tip doesn't do anything.
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The set back is actually difference in placement of the ring, hence why factory seconds.

These were heavily crimped with Lee FCD and I did keep my eye on it, these bullets will not be going on safari but for the berm and pigs/deer their actually quite good.
 
Ontario Hunter said:
Guess I missed your photos. If anything, it appears you are seating the bullets long as the case rim is not reaching the bullet's cannelure. A bit of deformation is not unusual for my 30-06 but that is pretty extreme. The cartridges must be moving around in the magazine box quite a bit. Manufacturers don't make mag boxes specific for each caliber, but rather one size box for several calibers. Obviously this is a magnum action and therefore mag box is likely made to fit many of the larger longer cartridges and accept oversize blunt nose DGR solid loads. Caliper the length of the mag box at top and then at bottom. If you have a hinged floorplate (likely), the opening for mag box may have been machined from the bottom. There could be "drift" or wider dimension opening at bottom than top. Then cartridges in the bottom of the box would be more prone to movement during recoil. If I encountered this issue I'd look at shrinking the length of box opening at the front with a shim. Hardwood should do the trick. Drill a couple of holes through the shim to help anchor it to mag box guts with epoxy. Once the slop has been eliminated the cartridges won't have enough room to develop inertia from recoil and smash bullet tips.
Click to expand...
Putting a hardwood shim at the front of the mag box is not a good idea ! The bullets will batter the wood in short order causing debris in your action and potentially even get stuck in the wood leading to feeding issues. I had the STEEL front of the mag box on my Mauser .375 H&H deformed by bullet battering, I welded in a piece of hardened power hacksaw blade to the front of the mag box to eliminate the problem. A hardwood spacer at the rear of the mag box would work better, but I would prefer a steel or aluminum spacer if you determine shortening the box is warranted. Bullet battering and tip deformation goes with the territory to a certain extent with hard kickers. The key points are a sturdy magazine box, especially at the front, and a crimp and or loading density that prevents bullet setback. Reducing mag box length can help, but if you do go this route do it the right way.
 
Very common with exposed lead tipped bullets. The deformation is cosmetic and has little effect on performance and ballistics. The biggest concern is bullet set back. Easy to check by marking bullet shank at mouth with knife point scratch mark or sharp pencil. Keep marked loaded round in magazine while shooting a few at the range. Check mark for set back. One reason for adequate neck tension and good crimp in groove.
 
One of the coincidentally interesting things I noticed when I bought my blaser r8 is that the inside front of the magazine box has a 3-4mm thick layer of rubber.

I assume it's for just this purpose.
I'm impressed they were that thorough in the design.
 
Being young and on my first safari with minimal big game hunting experience, I did the same thing. I topped off the magazine on my 375 wanting a "good" bullet for my first shot each time. I have no idea how many times the bottom round was battered but when I finally pulled it out of the rifle, the bullet was seated noticeably deeper. Maybe a good quarter inch are more. I did not fire that round as I was concerned about pressure.
 
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