Question for long-time alaskans

I've shot Buffalo Bore ammo. It's overpriced. The 10 in quick succession were that level or higher. Not often a person needs to shoot that many +P+ rounds in a short time.
.45-70 is the lightest 458 caliber I own.
Now 458 Lott? That's a beast. Didn't take me 10 rounds to decide I didn't need that rifle anymore...:oops::ROFLMAO:
It is expensive but its a good hunting bullet and load for bear over bait (what I’ve used it for) more then needed for close deer and Hornady LeverEvolution is plenty for that. It is a limitied application rifle load but i like it for certain close hunting areas
 
I've been in Anchorage many times and ran and biked on the coastal trail a lot.
It's where most animals attacks happen and I remember a runner being killed by a black bear some years ago.
However it's far fetched to call Anchorage a place attacks happen frequently and you need to carry a gun at all times.
You need a gun in Anchorage to deal with the crazy homeless. And the bear attacks in Anchorage are brown bear attacks.
 
To answer OP: I've lived in AK for almost 30 years, 5 of those in the Alaska Bush. I also practice law in Alaska and I've represented more than a few people charged with fish and game violations for a wide variety of offenses, so I have a pretty decent idea of what is a DLP (defense of life and property) shooting is. Finally, I live about 5 minutes down the road from Sutton and have for more than a decade.

Based on all of that, I would say that they should get a firearm but with the proviso that they are going to practice. There's a free range out off Maude roade that is about 15 minutes from their house. To be responsible gun owners, they need to practice. They don't need a concealed carry permit legally but the training from those courses is really valuable. I've taught the legal portion of CCW courses for several years and I would heartily recommend a newbie gun owner go through the course even if they don't obtain a CCW.

With that said, a newbie gun owner is going to want a firearm with the following characteristics: 1) reliable; 2) sufficient impact to deter large wildlife such a bears and moose*; 3) easy to operate; 4) easy to carry; and 5) have ammo that is readily available and comparatively inexpensive. No single factor will dominate and economists are fond of saying "There are no solutions, only tradeoffs." Yes, a .470NE will do more to stop a bear than a .223. But which is likely to be shot more? Which is easier to carry? How easy is it to get ammo for the .470 v. the .223? This doesn't mean that I recommend the .223 but you get my point. A .460 that never used because of the recoil or cost of shells does no good.

Given all of those factors, I would recommend a Glock 20. Glocks are like Toyotas: they just run and they are infinitely customizable. Recoil can be a bit stout but its manageable, in roughly .357 territory. 10mm ammo is much cheaper than .460 and the gun is far easier to be carried that a really large pistol or a shotgun, which means it is far more likely to be carried than a large pistol or shotgun. A Kenai chest holster from Gun Fighters Inc. can't be beat. It goes on over most clothes; its kydex so its not affected by weather; firearms 'click' into place and do not come out unless actively pulled out. While I haven't submerged mine, I wear my Kenai chest holster while I'm fishing and I've stumbled a time or two on slippery rocks. Gun doesn't even budge. And its extremely accessible. Also, a Glock 20 is pretty reasonably priced, far more reasonably priced than most other options. (I have used a different 10mm for years and just got an FM510 and want to see how that does but that's just me.)

As far as shots 50-100 yards away, when it's your home and you're dealing with a DLP situation - don't. Just don't, at least in these circumstances.** First off, at 50-100 yards away, the animal is not likely to seriously damage your home, particularly if you're 'bear aware' in terms of how you get rid of your garbage. DLP generally means that you are facing an 'imminent' threat to life or limb and that is way too far. Alaska juries deal with these animals all the time and they will be less than impressed by your sudden need to protect your life from a bear that's 100 yards away. One nice thing about a firearm is that loud noises can scare bears away. Unlike bear spray, you still have rounds left and can defend yourself. Dealing with animals is about the only time I would recommend firing a warning shot but then only when the muzzle is pointed in a safe direction, like, into the ground or the river (if you're fishing). Moose eating prize apple trees is likewise not really sufficient to justify killing the moose. Most locals view that as the cost of doing business. Don't want moose eating your trees? Put fences or other moose deterrent around them. Any local nursery will know how to do this.

One nice thing about the 10mm - if they have to deal with 2 legged intruders, you know the cartridge will penetrate the many layers those intruders may well have on because of the Alaska winter. I don't have a lot of confidence in the 9mm having much ooomph after going through a parka, Arctic Carhartt bibs, a thick flannel shirt and other layers of fleece before reaching vitals. If you ever have to fire on a 2 legged intruder: 1) aim for center mass; 2) fire until the intruder goes down then stop; 3) call 9-1-1 and say that there is an introducer WITHOUT SAYING MORE; 4) when the cops get there, say that guy was on yoru property and you believed he was going to seriously injure or kill you and you shot to stop him and then say, and I quote, "NOW I WANT TO TALK TO MY LAWYER. DO NOT TALK TO ME ANYMORE WITHOUT MY LAWYER." Then contact a lawyer from USCCA or Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network or LawShield or a similar organization and SHUT UP. If I emphasize keeping your mouth shut, its because I've never seen someone talk themselves out of trouble but I have seen lots of people talk themselves into trouble.

Again, this is my 2¢. Your mileage may vary. I've found when it comes to guns and protection and bears and self defense, the discussions involve a lot more heat than light. Just remember that opinions are like assholes - everybody has one and they usually stink.

*Sutton is one place where brown and black bear populations converge. Frankly, I would be more concerned about black bears than brown bears most of the time because brownies don't consider humans food. If you leave brownies alone, they generally leave you alone. Same can't be said for black bears. I say this as someone who's chased brown bears out of my yard and my boat and made sure they didn't come into my camp.

** we have chickens and there's a fox that sometimes steals my chickens. That fox is about 75 yards away and I want to eradicate the fox but so far it's been pretty elusive. I also have a pretty good setup - AR 15 in .300HAMR w/ red dot sight and a suppressor to not disturb the (few) neighbors. That setup, though, is not very newbie friendly, nor is it particularly pocket book friendly when compared to the Glock 20.
 
This was a nice, well thought out, and experienced response. Have had a couple others. The only thought about 100 yds is the 6 year old daughter tends to roam all over the yard as 6 year olds are wont to do. I thought I had made that clear a couple of times but que sera sera.
I'm still thinking a .30-30 is probably the best way to go for a long gun for them, to provide more precision than their shotgun.
 
Yes, I would agree. Defensive use can certainly be at longer range if you are protecting a child, livestock or a pet. As I stated, I keep a 30-06 loaded and ready, and can have 100+ yard shots. Here is the Alaska Defense of Life and Property code:

(a) Nothing in 5 AAC prohibits a person from taking game in defense of life or property if(1) the necessity for the taking is not brought about by harassment or provocation of the animal, or by an unreasonable invasion of the animal's habitat;(2) the necessity for the taking is not brought about by the improper disposal of garbage or a similar attractive nuisance; and(3) all other practicable means to protect life and property are exhausted before the game is taken.(b) Game taken in defense of life or property is the property of the state. A person taking game under this subsection shall immediately(1) salvage and surrender to the department the(A) hide and skull of a bear, completely removed from the carcass, and including all attached claws;(B) hide and skull of fur animals or furbearers;(C) meat and antlers or horns of ungulates;(D) meat of all other game not specified in (A) - (C) of this paragraph;(2) notify the department of the taking; and(3) submit to the department a completed questionnaire concerning the circumstances of taking of the game within 15 days after taking the game.(c) As used in this section, "property" means(1) a dwelling, permanent or temporary;(2) an aircraft, boat, automobile, or other conveyance;(3) a domesticated animal;(4) other property of substantial value necessary for the livelihood or survival of the owner.
5 AAC 92.410

Not only that, for much of the year the critters that may pose a threat are in season, and can be legally shot without meeting the above with a hunting/trapping license. Here in the Fairbanks area black bears are probably the most likely to cause problems, and are in season year round, no closed season. Wolves and Brown (grizzly) bears are in season most of the year. Even if you are not a hunter, it would behoove an individual to have a hunting license, just to avoid the scrutiny of a DLP shooting. I carry a handgun as well, but it seems a bit foolish to me to not have a rifle readily accessible around the house.
 
A child that is 6 years old needs to be taught about animals and to stay close to the house and not to wander.

Yes they will wander around and explore but they will learn what to do and what not to
 
In that direction, I've only heard good things about the 338 Fed in an AR10. I wish they offered the SFAR in more calibers.
338 federal unless you handload and convert 308 brass necked up, you’re getting into a fairly hard to find factory load and you’re getting a heavy AR, 10 rifle, in my opinion and AR 15 platform is much lighter and more flexible, just buy a three or $400 upper Complete And you can shoot 50 Beowulf which is factory loaded, easy to hand load, with 300, 350, 400, and 500 grain projectiles, 338 federal is an awesome cartridge but by the same token so is 358 Winchester, both are expensive yes 50 is but not uncommon it all comes down to a 12 gauge shotgun with slugs unless you’re shooting past 50 yards cheers, Tony
 
AKrifleman, every firearm is easy to operate “after proper training” and while you and I see the ease of an AR - new shooters might need more training with them then a revolver or pump & lever rifles….just a thought. I wouldnt rule out a double action revolver - they are simple, easy to load & learn how to shoot and “rarely jam” - much less on average then a semi auto and especially in bad weather conditions (cold/snow/dirt/dust). The power of the revolver can be matched to a shooters tolerance and a .357 is adequate for Bear defense (NOT Bear hunting, Not moose hunting) we are talking defense - deter or turn the attack. Handguns carry easy - rifles are great from a house or cabin/camp. Caliber is the least important and there is an excellent study that covered 70+ actual Bear attacks that were defended over a 20 year period — even 9mm was effective 80% and .44 mag 100%. I will try to google the name, title of the study but it was eye opening,,,,,even .22 LR was effective in several cases.

Your trying to argue with the wrong person. Read my previous posts, and you'll see I called out training as a priority above all else. Everyone else is getting religious about platform and caliber, which I've pointed out the fallacies of using absolute statements as fact.
 
338 federal unless you handload and convert 308 brass necked up, you’re getting into a fairly hard to find factory load and you’re getting a heavy AR, 10 rifle, in my opinion and AR 15 platform is much lighter and more flexible, just buy a three or $400 upper Complete And you can shoot 50 Beowulf which is factory loaded, easy to hand load, with 300, 350, 400, and 500 grain projectiles, 338 federal is an awesome cartridge but by the same token so is 358 Winchester, both are expensive yes 50 is but not uncommon it all comes down to a 12 gauge shotgun with slugs unless you’re shooting past 50 yards cheers, Tony

True, but that was my personal wish of a SFAR in 338 Federal, as I mentioned, and I exclusively handload. As a point of great importance is, the SFAR is a small frame AR. If you look up DPMS Gen2 compatible, or SFAR, F4 SF10 and the so forth, you'll find they are not heavy AR10s, but AR15 hybrids that are usually between 8lbs and 6lbs and change. That means its not "much lighter". As far as flexibility goes, having access to the entire .473 library vs the .378 library suggests more flexible to me. That is my preference, and I agreed both are valid options, but I'll not go AR15 myself. Oh, and I own a Savage Model 99 in 358 Win, so I'm a happy camper ;-)
 
Your trying to argue with the wrong person. Read my previous posts, and you'll see I called out training as a priority above all else. Everyone else is getting religious about platform and caliber, which I've pointed out the fallacies of using absolute statements as fact.
AKrifleman, there’s No argument anywhere, just a couple different thoughts - also Non religious.…sort of “more then one way to skin (or shoot) a Cat”
 
AKrifleman, there’s No argument anywhere, just a couple different thoughts - also Non religious.…sort of “more then one way to skin (or shoot) a Cat”
Amen. F&@k, was that religious? If it isn't agnostic, my bad lol That was my point from the top of the hour, so to speak ;-) Obviously not looking your way, but it seems a few folks need a lot of validation for their absolutes.
 
You are wrong about the bear.

I was thinking about this race in particular:


Appears from the article that this was from longer ago than I remember. Bad issue with getting old. Here's another guy attacked while riding a bike:


There's also this relatively recent attack:


Further, the article that you cite relates to a race that was south of Anchorage and I wasn't really thinking of that one because locals would say that was in Indian/Girdwood, which is definitely closer to Anchorage but would not be considered 'in' Anchorage. Maybe a semantic difference but that one just didn't stick in my mind as an 'Anchorage' attack, although I'd think of Eagle River as an Anchorage attack. A friend who's lived in Chugiak for >25 years has seen numerous brown bear but not black bear, although they are reported to be in that area.

Say what you want but I think it's kind of cool to work in a modern American city where there are large predators that are roaming.
 
If I'm them, for the situation you describe I want something I can get a few shots off quickly and something with some punch that has the capability to take out something bigger.

My recommendation is a semi auto in a bigger caliber. My choice would be a Benelli R1 chambered in 338 win mag. I don't believe you'll find a larger caliber in semi auto. The semi auto action will reduce the felt recoil down to a 30-06 in a bolt. If they already own a shotgun, that will be no problem. My shoulder would rather shoot my 338 any day over a 12 gauge.

338 will take down anything that wanders in. And I can tell you it's as accurate as any bolt action 30 caliber I own as well.
 
@Namagiqa very well said. And I agree it’s kinda cool to have big game in our biggest city. Like everything else in Alaska it’s real. Without a doubt the most important reason I live in Alaska (although as I’m getting older I’m spending less of the winter there).
 

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