458JCE & the B&M Super Shorts

[458JCE]

Here are some photos from an Asiatic Buffalo hunt in the Northern Territory in 2012 - 458JCE and 350gr North Fork SS (loaded first as too long for the magazine) and 325gr North Fork CPS.
It was the first test for the "Juicer" and I only took Cows with it. I used my custom (Montana 1999) 458 Lott with 450gr North Fork SS and CPS on the Bulls. Simon Kyle-Little was my PH and, like PaulT, he looked askance at my "pistol cartridge". It was my first-ever Buffalo hunt and I had built the Lott specifically for Buffalo in 2009. In retrospect, the 458JCE would have done the job on the Bulls too, but I didn't have enough experience to risk it then.
1. 350gr NF SS recovered from Buffalo Cow - first shot
2. The second, unnecessary, shot with a 325gr NF CPS passed through and took the sapling in front of the cow
3. 223, 458JCE, 458Lott
4. 458JCE with parent WSM case
5. 325gr NF CPS compared with 270gr Atomic29 HP

 

[Riflecrank]

Yep, truly spectacular, that 50 B&M SS Ruger No. 1 !
(Note to self: 22-gr Blue Dot with any bullet from 300-gr to 500-gr
For trial in 50-70 Little Bighorn Rolling Block.
Smokeless version of the original USA centerfire Battle Rifle,
50-70 Govt. Trapdoor load with BP and 450-gr bullet.)

 

[michael458]

In retrospect, the 458JCE would have done the job on the Bulls too,

Yep, Indeed it would have, especially with the NF 325 Ex CPS. Your 458 JCE looks like it has a little sharper shoulder than my 458 Super Short, which is fine, I can't see it making any difference.

Your 350 North Fork looks a lot like the one test I have here with that same bullet.......

The 300 Gr North Forks did very well too......

Not sure if you have access to the Lehigh Extremes, but they are "Extreme"....... There is a 250 gr Lehigh as well, I can't find where I tested it? Regardless, I had a friend that I load for with a 458 B&M, not long ago he took a bison with the 250 gr version at 2900 fps. It was DRT on the spot, and passed through....... I think if I was still shooting buffalo I would have to try these just to see, they test well and tests show Buffalo Capable.

 

[michael458]

Yep, truly spectacular, that 50 B&M SS Ruger No. 1 !
(Note to self: 22-gr Blue Dot with any bullet from 300-gr to 500-gr
For trial in 50-70 Little Bighorn Rolling Block.

Yes indeed, I thought that was insane......... I had the 50 SS out to put a CVLife on it, and got side tracked, and put it on the Ruger #1 in 50 B&M AK instead. Loaded up a bunch of test ammo to sight in with, light stuff as well, mid range around 1600-1800 fps. Looking at brass I had stowed away, and I have a hell of a lot of basic Super Short under the shelf, so now I will order a couple more CVLife and set that Ruger 50 SS up next week with all those light 1200-1400 fps loads, just big fun, and many of those bullets will be quite effective at that velocity as well.........

Funny how all those bullet makers all got to using the BBW#13 FN nose shape
developed at McCourry Institute of Ballistics (MIB) by Michael and Sam.

This 450-gr/.458 bullet progression over time at North Fork is not all inclusive.
The varying drive band structures may not be chronologically ordered here,
but the overall nose shapes are, methinks.
Drive bands had some input from MIB, IIRC, and then the Swedes took over.

John told me while we were doing the #13 Solids and research, that he was working on the North Forks, but did not disclose anything on the design. I think it was 6+ months after we finalized the #13 design that he introduced the North Forks, I laughed my ass off, and promptly ordered new North Forks in .416, .458, and of course the .500s. I loved them and yes, hard to not see some cross over between the two. I think the North Fork may be 12 degrees off the top instead of 13, about the only difference, and a 68% Meplat. It is a far superior design than the old version.......... And, I then had some of my North Fork bands changed too on the 416 and 458s, the two wide bands at the top and the wider band at the bottom........

They give the #13 a run for the money for sure............

The new North Forks really out paced the old designs.......

HEH....... I still refer to the "New North Forks" as NEW.......... Been out 14+ years, hardly new anymore. Maybe because I am OLD??

I never did see the North Fork Flattened RN version, like the Barnes FN Solids...? @Riflecrank must be older than I am........ HEH.........

 

[Riflecrank]

Yep, I got 4 years on you, but I bet you watched the same Mighty Mouse cartoons on Saturday mornings as I did, my fellow Boomer.

 

[Sarg]

Sarg,
What twist are you using on the .510 WSM ?

I’m pretty sure it’s 1-9 or 1-10, I don’t use those A Max slugs, really only want a 700-750gr big cast that looks like the North Fork.
Maker make the most awesome subsonic bullets up to 1000gr but again almost impossible to get here & if you could would probably be $10 a slug ?

I’m actually enjoying these little straight cases, got keen again as been playing with a .450BM & .350 Legend they are something when hand loaded.

 

[michael458]

got keen again as been playing with a .450BM & .350 Legend they are something when hand loaded.

OMG...... Don't even get me started on the 450 BushMaster, I am a big fan of that cartridge, combine that with a few bullets, that you cannot get unfortunately, turns the 450 BM into another animal. Namely, the CEB .452 caliber 160 Raptor. In 16 inches of gun, 2750 fps, it is wicked. My guns feed/function also with the Lehigh Extremes, and the 300 CEB Solids.......I recently ordered 1000 pieces of new Starline brass to fill full of the CEB and Lehighs...... and have been busy doing just that. Once again, LilGun has proven to be very effective in this one as well........... I am side tracking us from the Super Shorts just a bit, but it is worth it, and the 450 BM is damn close to the subject anyway........

OK, back to.....................

 

[458JCE]

Interesting bullets - wish we could get them here

 

[michael458]

Interesting bullets - wish we could get them here

My Friend DownUnder Daryl Lenkic used to be a distributor for CEB, North Fork and says Maker as well. Now it has been a very long time since I touched base with Daryl, but I just went over to his website and it is still active;

Meplat Firearms Services

Projectiles

Meplat Firearm Services matches big game rifles, B&M cartridges and Cutting Edge Bullets hunting projectiles to give you an outstanding hunting combination. We can also import overseas firearm items for you not stocked in Australian shops.

www.meplat.com.au

Daryl is a B&M fan as well, and has a few B&M rifles. He was distributor for B&M in Australia as well, but I think it got too aggravating to import the rifles. And of course there is no one building them anyway.

Maybe touch base with Daryl and see what the deal is on CEB/North Fork and Maker.......................

 

[458JCE]

Awesome - I will contact Darryl

 

[coyote wacker]

OMG...... Don't even get me started on the 450 BushMaster, I am a big fan of that cartridge, combine that with a few bullets, that you cannot get unfortunately, turns the 450 BM into another animal. Namely, the CEB .452 caliber 160 Raptor. In 16 inches of gun, 2750 fps, it is wicked. My guns feed/function also with the Lehigh Extremes, and the 300 CEB Solids.......I recently ordered 1000 pieces of new Starline brass to fill full of the CEB and Lehighs...... and have been busy doing just that. Once again, LilGun has proven to be very effective in this one as well........... I am side tracking us from the Super Shorts just a bit, but it is worth it, and the 450 BM is damn close to the subject anyway........

OK, back to.....................

450 Bushmaster has been a project for me since Michigan changed there shotgun area to Limited Rifle and all straight wall cartridges between 1.16" and 1.8" 35 caliber or larger were legal. First thing I did was call Dan at Cutting Edge Bullets and asked him if he would sell me some of the 160 gr. Raptors with out a sabot to load in 450 Bushmaster. He sent me 200 to work up some loads in a Bushmaster brand rifle. There was no data to even start with so I went to work using LilGun and it worked out OK. A little over 2700 fps in a 20" AR-15. I set out that first season and filled my tags with one shot on each buck. After deer season I got many inquires on CEB bullets and passed my data on. Also loaded for many more friends and relitives using AR-15's. I wanted to use a bolt action that second season and see what could be done to increase velosities in a bolt action, able to take 60'000 psi a great increase from the 38'000 psi allowed in a AR-15 plateform gun.
I used a Savage 10 action very easy for me in my shop to just screw a barrel on a action with a vise, wrench and a gauge. When I had a barrel made I increased the head space so the bullet could be seated much longer than factory length allowing me more case capacity, more powder, more speed. Well I can get just over 3000 fps with the 160 gr Raptor in a bolt action safely using LilGun and 100 fps faster using Enforcer with no sign of high pressure.
I have also done the same with the CEB 250 gr. Raptor getting 2600 fps in a Ruger American 16". Several years ago shooting a 609 lb. dress black bear, it never took a step at the shot.....DRT.....base of bullet not recovered. With this load I wouldn't hesitate to shoot moose size animals.
I've only recovered one CEB bullet base from a 160 gr Raptor and that was in a 227 lb. whitetail buck. Shot center of the chest head on the base was recovered just under the hide in the rear hide quarter.

Sure the 450 BM is a specialize cartridge that I wouldn't have given it a second thought if it wasn't a new requirement and a much better one for deer hunting in Michigans Limited Zone. Plus having some great bullets to use. Theres a few OK bullet that have become avalible in the past couple years and still some garbage bullets still being made. But Cutting Edge Bullets have been so great for over 15 years.

 

[458JCE]

I made contact with Daryl at Meplat. Because he cannot obtain business insurance (insidious restriction of the firearms industry in Australia) he has ceased importing bullets

I wonder how I can get some 160gr Raptors from CEB? I reckon they would get up near 3000fps out of the 458JCE.

 

[Sarg]

I made contact with Daryl at Meplat. Because he cannot obtain business insurance (insidious restriction of the firearms industry in Australia) he has ceased importing bullets

I wonder how I can get some 160gr Raptors from CEB? I reckon they would get up near 3000fps out of the 458JCE.

I thought the opportunity was gone now, laws also changed in Australia “Any” firearm part or ammunition components are movement restricted.

I even lost a couple of spent projectiles dug out of Buffalo then prosecuted for such.

NZ has changed also but components are Ok still, but no one will send from the US & I think if they did the freight would be a killer ?

 

[Fordy]

Gday Farah and 458jce

I thought the opportunity was gone now, laws also changed in Australia “Any” firearm part or ammunition components are movement restricted.

That is correct although we still can import our self which I’ve been doing for years anyway & have quite a bit of experience in this area and fairly simple if this dumb farmer can do it lol

I spoke to ABF late last month ( I’ll keep my contact numbers out of here but glad to offer them privately once i check with them it’s ok to pass on ) as I have every shipment I place prior to sending

I even lost a couple of spent projectiles dug out of Buffalo then prosecuted for such.

Was this on a return flight from a hunting trip & was your important permit issued from the abf or the department of defence ? As usually has a bit to do with it in my experience

NZ has changed also but components are Ok still, but no one will send from the US & I think if they did the freight would be a killer ?

Not aware of nz but I’ve sent some over so goes with your no issues on component’s

freight is pretty terrible my last lot cost 166$ us on my order of 750 projectiles ( I do a couple shipments a month in the high of culling time )
& here is one extremely important piece of information when permits are applied for if one puts bullets you’ll not get to first base but put “projectiles only ( inert ) “the permits have been issued in my state without issues ( I got caught years ago & still received my pill but very delayed )

I made contact with Daryl at Meplat. Because he cannot obtain business insurance (insidious restriction of the firearms industry in Australia) he has ceased importing bullets

Sad as Daryl is a easy going good guy that has helped a lot of people & that’s the thanks he gets for being a honest bloke yep we are so screwed in Aussie in so many ways imo

I wonder how I can get some 160gr Raptors from CEB? I reckon they would get up near 3000fps out of the 458JCE.

If you want I’ll help out the best I can or the other option is contact reloading international as they import into Aussie I’ve been informed from the abf & a few others but that was a while ago so things may have changed I just don’t know sorry but time line was way longer than the process I use these days

Hope that clears up a few things & send me a pm if you want & I can help where I can & a phone call is easier than my typing speed lol but then you’ll have to work out if you can understand taswegian lol

Cheers

 

[458JCE]

Gday Farah and 458jce

That is correct although we still can import our self which I’ve been doing for years anyway & have quite a bit of experience in this area and fairly simple if this dumb farmer can do it lol

I spoke to ABF late last month ( I’ll keep my contact numbers out of here but glad to offer them privately once i check with them it’s ok to pass on ) as I have every shipment I place prior to sending


Was this on a return flight from a hunting trip & was your important permit issued from the abf or the department of defence ? As usually has a bit to do with it in my experience

Not aware of nz but I’ve sent some over so goes with your no issues on component’s

freight is pretty terrible my last lot cost 166$ us on my order of 750 projectiles ( I do a couple shipments a month in the high of culling time )
& here is one extremely important piece of information when permits are applied for if one puts bullets you’ll not get to first base but put “projectiles only ( inert ) “the permits have been issued in my state without issues ( I got caught years ago & still received my pill but very delayed )

Sad as Daryl is a easy going good guy that has helped a lot of people & that’s the thanks he gets for being a honest bloke yep we are so screwed in Aussie in so many ways imo

If you want I’ll help out the best I can or the other option is contact reloading international as they import into Aussie I’ve been informed from the abf & a few others but that was a while ago so things may have changed I just don’t know sorry but time line was way longer than the process I use these days

Hope that clears up a few things & send me a pm if you want & I can help where I can & a phone call is easier than my typing speed lol but then you’ll have to work out if you can understand taswegian lol

Cheers

It looks like Reloading International has gone out of CEB? Plenty of North Fork though......

 

[michael458]

I wonder how I can get some 160gr Raptors from CEB? I reckon they would get up near 3000fps out of the 458JCE

Yeah, but you probably could not hit the side of the barn.... the 160 Raptors are .452 designed for the 450 Bushmaster......

Years ago I had a 458 Super Short built on a AR Olympic upper that was chambered in one of the WSSM cartridges. It worked very well, weak point being those magazines, which were not of the highest quality. I kept pressures to 55000 PSI and was a little disappointed with 250s at or around 2350 fps. In the bolt gun we could easy exceed 2600 fps. Still it was a viable platform regardless.

But, when I discovered the same thing in 450 Bushmaster, and combined with those CEB Raptors, both 160 at over 2750 fps in 16 inches and 2500 fps in 10.5 inches, along with 250 Raptors at 2300+ fps in 16 inches, it impressed me far more than my own 458 SS on a semi gun. In fact, in the last week I pulled the 458 SS apart to use the lower for something else, put the upper on the shelf.

 

[458JCE]

LOL - we can only dream about an AR platform here - they're even taking Blasers away in NSW now

OK - I didn't realise the 160 Raptors were .452 calibre

 

[458JCE]

I had a chat with Fordy tonight - wealth of experience there
Thanks Fordy!

 

[michael458]

I had a chat with Fordy tonight - wealth of experience there
Thanks Fordy!

You are 100% spot on ........... and on top of that, a pretty good chap as I calculate.... consider Fordy a good friend........ Man I have some really good friends down under, Paul T, Daryl, Fordy now Evan, and Sarg too, and I thought the whole bunch of you were a bunch of hooligans before...... HEH HEH.....

 

[458JCE]

You are 100% spot on ........... and on top of that, a pretty good chap as I calculate.... consider Fordy a good friend........ Man I have some really good friends down under, Paul T, Daryl, Fordy now Evan, and Sarg too, and I thought the whole bunch of you were a bunch of hooligans before...... HEH HEH.....

LOL "A bunch of hooligans" probably isn't far off the mark! Speaking only for myself of course.....