Politics

[Pheroze]

I think the problem in both the UK and in Canada is leadership..

Hard to have a revolution (whether we are talking and armed one, a cultural one, or any other sort) without leaders..

Were it not for George Washington and a handful of others.. the world would probably look very different today.. I'd guess the US would all still be British subjects.. and many of the countries that fought for their own independence that were inspired by what happened in the US wouldnt have made a move either..

The masses may be displeased.. they may even be willing to fight (physically, economically, etc).. but until someone steps up and leads them (and, that person needs to be a GREAT leader that surrounds themselves with other subordinate great leaders) there will be little to no effectiveness..

So the question becomes... who is that guy in Canada (or the UK)? does he even exist?

Until someone steps forward that has the ability to unite the pissed off masses and get them moving in the same direction.. things will just continue to get worse, not better...

Things got pretty damn bad in the US, and had been pretty damn bad for decades, before Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Madison, Jay, Franklin, Hamilton, et al finally had enough of it and were willing to risk their lives, their fortunes (most of the founding fathers were wealthy and prospering greatly under British rule), their families, etc to right all of the wrongs they were seeing..

Im not sure things have gotten bad enough for the Canadians or the Brits yet...

and.. we live in an age of great mobility these days.. 250 years ago you didnt have a whole lot of options.. you either lived with your situation, or you fought.. picking up and moving somewhere else took years of planning, years of saving, etc.. and then often times years to execute..

today, the frustrated can pack up their shit and be living in another country within a matter of weeks.. even if they are on the lower end of middle class...

theyre not forced to endure.. they actually have the option to just leave..

I wonder about the difference between leadership and the skill of governance. What I mean is that a leader can incite a group to act in a coordinated manner - like we have seen with leadership on both sides of the political spectrum- but the skill of governance I believe has a longer lasting benefit on the institution. We have seen the leadership of the left displaced by leadership on the right and yet both leaders just take a machete to whatever the ones before have done. However, a leader who is skilled in governance can look after the democratic process we need for a few hundred years more while moving their agenda.

I think if Trudeau had engaged the concerns of the west more while trying to achieve a “green” future, Canada would be better off and I suspect his legacy would be one of success for his ideology. Eventually the democrats will regain power and it will take a strong person with a good sense of governance to not wholesale destroy what Trump is trying to achieve. Trump is creating some important law on executive power, but that opens the door to others. We need for our elected officials to show more skill and less ideology, which is good governance.

 

[spike.t]

Unfortunately in the "west" the rights that each individual has makes it very difficult to remove folks from each country. I have no idea what "British" law is or was. I suspect neither does their native population either any longer.

While I am not advocating this, folks that refuse to assimilate need to be removed. Governments that fail to do this risk failing. The UK is about to fail and the EU is not far behind. If a video I watch earlier today is any indication Canada may go before the EU does. Some of our founding father had a dim view of a certain religion, and unfortunately our leaders failed at history and are repeating it. Look what it took to have Christianity throughout Europe.

OK as I asked previously how do you remove them?.....and the European court of human rights fks it up anytime anything just about is tried....one of the things that should have been done as soon as brexit happened was to leave it....

 

[mdwest]

I wonder about the difference between leadership and the skill of governance. What I mean is that a leader can incite a group to act in a coordinated manner - like we have seen with leadership on both sides of the political spectrum- but the skill of governance I believe has a longer lasting benefit on the institution. We have seen the leadership of the left displaced by leadership on the right and yet both leaders just take a machete to whatever the ones before have done. However, a leader who is skilled in governance can look after the democratic process we need for a few hundred years more while moving their agenda.

I think if Trudeau had engaged the concerns of the west more while trying to achieve a “green” future, Canada would be better off and I suspect his legacy would be one of success for his ideology. Eventually the democrats will regain power and it will take a strong person with a good sense of governance to not wholesale destroy what Trump is trying to achieve. Trump is creating some important law on executive power, but that opens the door to others. We need for our elected officials to show more skill and less ideology, which is good governance.

I think that is all very much spot on...

One of the things that I think made the US founding fathers different was.. very few of them actually wanted power or to govern.. all they wanted was a better "America"...

Washington could have very easily become King George I of America.. he instead chose to go home to his farm once the war was over.. it wasnt until 6 years after the revolutionary war ended that he took on the role as President (after it became pretty apparent that the Articles of Confederation and a Congress alone wasnt creating good governance for the US.. My understanding of history was that even then he was reluctant.. but he put his country before himself and took on the job regardless of not wanting it..

I think far too many politicians (all over the world) are motivated by power, fame, money, and/or a lot of things other than actually having a desire to improve their country.... even those with good first intentions all seem to change over time and it becomes far more about themselves than it does the people they serve... that in and of itself kills any chance of true good governance..

What we (all countries) need are people to take positions in government that truly see it as a burden, not a privilege.. they do it because they know its the right thing to do, and for no other reason...

THEN we'll see leaders that care more about the future of their nation, the people that live within their borders, etc..

Sadly.. I dont think many of those people exist in the world anymore.. and the few that might be out there lack the money and/or prominence and the connections to ever get themselves into a senior leadership position in government..

 

[steve white]

Out of interest what would you suggest the citizens of Canada or UK...France.. Germany...etc etc do?....doubt changing the governments would make any difference, as what exactly or how exactly do they do to remove hundreds of thousands...or millions of people....which is the only way to do it....I am all for it but as I said please explain how...

EN MASS threaten to boycott federal income tax and then by God, do it! I've been shot down on this forum years ago for suggesting it, but there it is. Will there be penal casualties--yes, but they won't cost you your life, if it comes to that at all. Funny we say it is impossible to cast out millions of illegals, yet somehow think it is possible to jail millions of tax protestors. And taxes should not be paid until every liberal professor is out of a job, with 50% conservative parity being a first move. THEY are the ones who fomented most of our troubles. Ditto for getting rid of welfare for any and all illegals and all Muslims--yes I am picking on them as a group, since even Switzerland is seeing them deliberately bankrupt the system through overloaded welfare with all their kids!
If Islamics start trouble, they should be met with greater deadly force. If a mosque is involved it should be torn down.
I say this though I just pheasant hunted with a very pleasant fellow named Aziz who came from Afghanistan to Rockwall, Tx. Sorry, this is our country. There is no where else to run to. All muslim immigration should cease, especially for family members of those already here.
All Islamic schools should be banned. I don't want new jihadis being indoctrinated, or Jews taught to be descended from monkeys and pigs. No, I'm not Jewish. And would you want communist schools of indoctrination? Same thing. Islam is a militant movement disguised as a religion.
If there is ever a declared civil war, those liberal professors will be the first I would target, with a worthy list to follow. Cut off the head of the snake.
Even if you are not winning, a northern Irish type resistance might be justified. Seems the Irish are getting ready to do just that again, only this time directed to the Muslims. At least they have balls.

In a nutshell, I don't envision Islam doing anything but trying to conquer us. Deal with it on that basis or see their promise to sell your sons on the slave market and break all your crosses come to fruition. It took a Jan Sobieski to free Vienna--not an RLD style lawyer, though I perhaps should not have lowered myself by calling him an asshole. He should stay in his lane. And his lane, despite his self delusion is NOT one of moral high ground. (most liberals think they occupy moral high ground)
I am one of the Black Robe Brigade....those who took off their ecclesiastical black robes to reveal a Continental army uniform and lead their congregants to fight the British. And I am pretty close to ready to literally fight.
Any person living in a Muslim country lives under Dhimmi status. Their head must not be higher than the head of a muslim. They have to pay a special tax. They cannot rebuild a church once damaged, etc., etc. YOU will someday be treated like that is what was once your own country. Check out how Christians are treated in the Middle East. Get ready to live that way if you are passive.
Every man will be Patrick Henry--give me liberty or give me death--or will surrender and die out, just as the once Christian North Africa did. Choose.

I may need bail money some day....

 

[steve white]

I think the problem in both the UK and in Canada is leadership..

Hard to have a revolution (whether we are talking and armed one, a cultural one, or any other sort) without leaders..

Were it not for George Washington and a handful of others.. the world would probably look very different today.. I'd guess the US would all still be British subjects.. and many of the countries that fought for their own independence that were inspired by what happened in the US wouldnt have made a move either..

The masses may be displeased.. they may even be willing to fight (physically, economically, etc).. but until someone steps up and leads them (and, that person needs to be a GREAT leader that surrounds themselves with other subordinate great leaders) there will be little to no effectiveness..

So the question becomes... who is that guy in Canada (or the UK)? does he even exist?

Until someone steps forward that has the ability to unite the pissed off masses and get them moving in the same direction.. things will just continue to get worse, not better...

Things got pretty damn bad in the US, and had been pretty damn bad for decades, before Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Madison, Jay, Franklin, Hamilton, et al finally had enough of it and were willing to risk their lives, their fortunes (most of the founding fathers were wealthy and prospering greatly under British rule), their families, etc to right all of the wrongs they were seeing..

Im not sure things have gotten bad enough for the Canadians or the Brits yet...

and.. we live in an age of great mobility these days.. 250 years ago you didnt have a whole lot of options.. you either lived with your situation, or you fought.. picking up and moving somewhere else took years of planning, years of saving, etc.. and then often times years to execute..

today, the frustrated can pack up their shit and be living in another country within a matter of weeks.. even if they are on the lower end of middle class...

theyre not forced to endure.. they actually have the option to just leave..

Haven't we run out of places to go?....

 

[mdwest]

OK as I asked previously how do you remove them?.....and the European court of human rights fks it up anytime anything just about is tried....one of the things that should have been done as soon as brexit happened was to leave it....

As an outsider looking in (so I admit I may be completely wrong.. I dont have the insiders vantage point or understanding).. I think the EU has to be killed before anything substantial can happen in Europe...

As long as the leaders in Germany, France, Belgium, etc.. etc.. have to subordinate to an unaligned leader sitting on the throne in Brussels.. the leaders in the various EU countries really cant put their own country "first".. they are always going to have to consider their impacts on other countries economies, population, immigration, etc..etc.. with the decisions they make and have to ultimately put the best interest of the EU first, or suffer consequences for not doing that..

I get the initial concept of the EU.. but, IMO, it has failed all of its member states rather than benefit them..

Perhaps the poorer, less developed countries have benefitted.. but of all the Austrians, Germans, Brits, French, Dutch, etc. I have talked to over the last 30 years.. none seem to think their countries are better today than they were prior to the EU being formed..

Many of them dont put blame on the EU (either entirely or even in part).. but I dont find it coincidental that they all agree that their countries have been on a downhill slide for decades... and that the timeline for starting that downhill momentum coincides with the formation of the EU..

 

[steve white]

I think that is all very much spot on...

One of the things that I think made the US founding fathers different was.. very few of them actually wanted power or to govern.. all they wanted was a better "America"...

Washington could have very easily become King George I of America.. he instead chose to go home to his farm once the war was over.. it wasnt until 6 years after the revolutionary war ended that he took on the role as President (after it became pretty apparent that the Articles of Confederation and a Congress alone wasnt creating good governance for the US.. My understanding of history was that even then he was reluctant.. but he put his country before himself and took on the job regardless of not wanting it..

I think far too many politicians (all over the world) are motivated by power, fame, money, and/or a lot of things other than actually having a desire to improve their country.... even those with good first intentions all seem to change over time and it becomes far more about themselves than it does the people they serve... that in and of itself kills any chance of true good governance..

What we (all countries) need are people to take positions in government that truly see it as a burden, not a privilege.. they do it because they know its the right thing to do, and for no other reason...

THEN we'll see leaders that care more about the future of their nation, the people that live within their borders, etc..

Sadly.. I dont think many of those people exist in the world anymore.. and the few that might be out there lack the money and/or prominence and the connections to ever get themselves into a senior leadership position in government..

It's called Statesmanship. It is sorely lacking, now that the people have discovered that "they can vote for themselves largesse."

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

And will you be gentlemanly passive as you watch it all give way?...

The fundamental difference between Canada and the United States is that our forefathers were politicals and yours were fighting men. One of the few things I envy about America is your constitution and the rights it guarantees you. Where as here I have to worry if a strongly worded email to an m.p. And former acquaintance could garner me a visit from the rcmp and result in my firearms being seized for several years until I prove that I didn’t utter threats.

Like what @mdwest said it will take a leader to start correcting the corse we are on otherwise the actions of individuals are too easily dismissed as racism or right wing extremism and I am in no way qualified to lead anyone.
to answer your question about what I will do the answer is unfortunately wait and pray. It is very easy for all of us to sit and judge from behind the safety of our screens it’s another to throw the dice and risk everything that generations of your family have worked and built and if history has taught us anything once those dice are cast there is no going back.

 

[mdwest]

Haven't we run out of places to go?....

it depends on your perspective I think..

for example, a lot of guys in the military organization I belonged to years ago become expats..

as part of their training they obtain foreign language skills, are trained on foreign culture issues, etc.. and become very comfortable living/working in other places..

they can retire from the military on an E8's pay while still in their late 30's to early 40's.. and literally live like kings somewhere like Thailand, Colombia, Kenya, etc...

Do they give up some rights and freedoms? absolutely...

Is it worth it to them? in many cases.. yes... again.. youve got a guy thats 42 years old that never has to work again, that lives an upper middle class lifestyle for the rest of his days.. and all he has to do is get a residency visa for Thailand and go buy a house on the beach a few miles outside of Phuket..

My wife works in the hospitality industry... that industry is FULL of european expats... one hotel in particular Im thinking about has a belgian, a ukranian, and a brit all on their leadership team...

They all come to the US because wages are better, the cost of living is better, etc.. they gain a much better lifestyle..

But every single one of them laments the loss of all of their european social welfare programs.. All they do is bitch about the US, how its run and managed, etc... they are all hugely supportive of democrat candidates, all absolutely hate Trump, etc..etc.. (thankfully none of them can vote)...

There are plenty of places a Canadian can go... its not hard for them to come to the US... most developing countries will hand them a residency visa within a matter of just a few weeks after applying.. They can escape the collapsing economy, the cultural shift, etc with very little effort at all.. and actually see a net benefit to their standard of living (if they are retired their pensions/retirement accounts will go a whole lot further in the developing countries.. and if they are not retired they will earn a lot more money and pay less to live by coming to the US)...

The problem is they didnt experience enough pain prior to escaping.. so they often bring all of their bullshit with them.. they seem to think they can have all of the good and all of the benefits of the new locale, AND also have all of the things they liked that they left behind..

I think thats why we see a stark contrast when you talk to Cuban or Haitian immigrants that came to the US in the 80's.. you see the contrast quite a bit with the Vietnamese immigrants that came over at the close of the Vietnam war as well.. .

They did in fact experience A LOT of pain and suffering.. they know all of the problems associated with socialist or communist ideals.. they understand what its like to live somewhere that the government doesnt give a shit about the people.. it only cares about itself.. etc.. and they generally reject those concepts..

 

[mdwest]

It's called Statesmanship. It is sorely lacking, now that the people have discovered that "they can vote for themselves largesse."

Franklin warned us about that explicitly....

 

[Wheels]

OK as I asked previously how do you remove them?.....and the European court of human rights fks it up anytime anything just about is tried....one of the things that should have been done as soon as brexit happened was to leave it....

As an outsider looking in (only been to around 20 European countries) the European Common Market was probably a good thing. The expansion to the EU was the beginning of the downfall. Europe is stuck with unelected bureaucrats in Brussels making policy and decisions who are accountable to no one. Until countries leave the EU or until the EU is broken up things will only get worse for the citizens of those countries since the EU will not allow immigrants to be removed and are forcing more to be accepted in.

In the case of the UK, the people voted out the EU and the politicians basically ignored them. Who are the Robert Fitzwalters or William Marshalls in the UK today that will force a Runnymede type moment. I don’t see any. Don’t look for a Nigel Farge to do it. If it happens it will probably be a Tommy Robinson type person with leadership qualities who comes out of nowhere. With all of his faults, America found Trump to enforce immigration laws, so it can be done. The question is will the UK do it.

 

[Wheels]

As an outsider looking in (so I admit I may be completely wrong.. I dont have the insiders vantage point or understanding).. I think the EU has to be killed before anything substantial can happen in Europe...

As long as the leaders in Germany, France, Belgium, etc.. etc.. have to subordinate to an unaligned leader sitting on the throne in Brussels.. the leaders in the various EU countries really cant put their own country "first".. they are always going to have to consider their impacts on other countries economies, population, immigration, etc..etc.. with the decisions they make and have to ultimately put the best interest of the EU first, or suffer consequences for not doing that..

I get the initial concept of the EU.. but, IMO, it has failed all of its member states rather than benefit them..

Perhaps the poorer, less developed countries have benefitted.. but of all the Austrians, Germans, Brits, French, Dutch, etc. I have talked to over the last 30 years.. none seem to think their countries are better today than they were prior to the EU being formed..

Many of them dont put blame on the EU (either entirely or even in part).. but I dont find it coincidental that they all agree that their countries have been on a downhill slide for decades... and that the timeline for starting that downhill momentum coincides with the formation of the EU..

I should have ready all the posts prior to writing mine. I even started mine the same way you did

 

[Aaron N]

It’s happening here on the east coast of Canada as well , you can no longer find a fast food restaurant that isn’t completely run by foreigners. The housing market is out of control because they buy up properties then live in them way over capacity until they can buy another and repeat. It’s sad to watch the Canadian identity erode away.

I’m a xenophobic as the best of them, but I can’t fault people for playing the game better than us.

Western pride (or entitlement) has created this issue. There’s no reason why we couldn’t be playing the same game except for our own egos.

A) Housing - What’s stopping the average Canadian family from living three generations deep in a house, pooling money to build a real estate empire? Absolutely nothing but our own desires for privacy. Even the idea of legal suites as rentals is a no-go for the majority of us. Or what about having kids share bedrooms?

B) Small Businesses - Why didn’t these Cape Breton business owners’ children take over these businesses? It’s simple, your average Subway, liquor store, or gas station really doesn’t generate that much revenue at the end of the year. This means you have to actively be working at those businesses for them to be economically viable. Your average caper would rather hop a plane west working 14/14 driving a rock truck for Ledcor for 120k+ than to have to say that they are a “sandwich artist” and take home 40k in wages and maybe another 40k in business profit on their subway. Im also not singling out Cape Bretoners, this is the cross Canadian reality. Immigrants are willing to make sacrifices to get ahead that seem beneath us locals.

If we want less immigrants, then we have to get back to having 4-6 kids and cramming them all in a house, which again few westerners are comfortable doing anymore.

 

[CJW]

Well your entitled to your opinion..but if that's the case then most traditional historical things are pointless in this day and age....and time of rewritten history.....and yes as I said most of those pictured wearing it won't follow my sentiments... that am sure a lot of people in uk also have for the traditions of the country..... they don't need to be in the UK to mock anything to do with uk...usa or the west in general......how many mosques do you have in usa?.....I read Houston by itself has 209 mosques or learning centres.....am sure they aren't praising your country or your fellow countrymen.....how it is in the west and other places like Australia..NZ ..etc etc etc....it's an undeclared war....or as is the case some in these countries are calling out loud for it to be war against the places they have moved to ..whether legally or illegally....and infiltrating the system.....so be careful as you aren't immune from it...and are in the firing line over there as well.....regardless of what the Donald comes up with......

I've never denied any problems here in the US and I've never said only the UK has problems. I've been pretty open about my thoughts of Islam and the danger it poses everywhere and how it works as well as middle east culture in general. I think you know that by now. There's no need to take it as a solely UK personal attack. You yourself have said that the UK is finished. Please see my prior posts, most recently the state of NYC and it's aggressive economic scum sucking immigrants who I would gladly set free on rafts in the middle of the Atlantic, free to find the rest of their way home.

That said, it's no secret that the entire world is now laughing at the UK and feeling sorry for the defenseless children while the adults are too scared to even speak or now post pictures of themselves while in other countries. It isn't the country that most of us would have picked to be in such a shambles so quickly, including you I'm assuming.

Unfortunately you have too many boomer era folks denying all responsibility and getting offended when they're told how bad things actually are. Others just giving up and telling kids to give up as well and move abroad. America is their best option, but the world will REALLY suck when there's only one good option left. Though maybe Poland?

The problem we have as Americans is that we not only have our own natural born lunatics the same as every country, we also have our imported 6th century problems AND the people who share our culture but are giving up and fleeing their countries when they're no longer liveable. Then just choosing to keep up the same thought processes.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Class until the end eh Stever? That kind of contribution to a discussion is worth it's weight in gold. Does the hood cut down your vision much? Hard to breath in there? Hypoxia is a real thing man, whether it be from too tight hoods or Trump's genitals wedged in your throat.

I guess even discussing religion scares members of the MAGA hoard. Anything that is not hate literature is outside your range it appears.

Of all the stupid comments I've read.lately RLD, yours is right there at the top. Where did you get such ignorant ideas about conservative people?

 

[RLD]

Of all the stupid comments I've read.lately RLD, yours is right there at the top. Where did you get such ignorant ideas about conservative people?

I can't imagine where that came from.

But, allow me to quibble with the premise of your question. I don't think that most MAGA folks really are conservative. Not in the usual sense of the word anyways.

 

[RLD]

A) Housing - What’s stopping the average Canadian family from living three generations deep in a house, pooling money to build a real estate empire? Absolutely nothing but our own desires for privacy. Even the idea of legal suites as rentals is a no-go for the majority of us. Or what about having kids share bedrooms?

B) Small Businesses - Why didn’t these Cape Breton business owners’ children take over these businesses? It’s simple, your average Subway, liquor store, or gas station really doesn’t generate that much revenue at the end of the year. This means you have to actively be working at those businesses for them to be economically viable. Your average caper would rather hop a plane west working 14/14 driving a rock truck for Ledcor for 120k+ than to have to say that they are a “sandwich artist” and take home 40k in wages and maybe another 40k in business profit on their subway. Im also not singling out Cape Bretoners, this is the cross Canadian reality. Immigrants are willing to make sacrifices to get ahead that seem beneath us locals.

This is so bang on. Many of these immigrants are "hard", as in willing to endure hardship, to achieve success. Many people born and raised here are not.

 

[Red Leg]

Oh good Lord. And we are collectively complaining about the heavy handedness of European social media surveillance? I can't wait to see the form the blowback will take with regard to this nonsense. I wonder how many on this thread would survive British or French scrutiny.

Trust Trump. If there isn't a crisis with a traditional ally, he'll find a way to create one. I am beginning to have concerns that what we saw with the Biden administration, where subordinate "true believers" were running amok, isn't starting to take root in Trump's.

Tourists — including those from Britain, Australia, France, and Japan — will be mandated to provide five years of their social media history as part of their applications to visit the U.S., according to a notice posted by U.S. Customs and Border Protection, or CBP, on Wednesday.

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/12/10/us-to-inspect-tourists-social-media-history-from-past-5-years-.html

 

[mdwest]

I wonder how many on this thread would survive British or French scrutiny.

The French didnt like me before social media existed.. (thats not entirely true.. MySpace was just getting started I think)..

Im sure they absolutely hate me now

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

I’m a xenophobic as the best of them, but I can’t fault people for playing the game better than us.

Western pride (or entitlement) has created this issue. There’s no reason why we couldn’t be playing the same game except for our own egos.

A) Housing - What’s stopping the average Canadian family from living three generations deep in a house, pooling money to build a real estate empire? Absolutely nothing but our own desires for privacy. Even the idea of legal suites as rentals is a no-go for the majority of us. Or what about having kids share bedrooms?

B) Small Businesses - Why didn’t these Cape Breton business owners’ children take over these businesses? It’s simple, your average Subway, liquor store, or gas station really doesn’t generate that much revenue at the end of the year. This means you have to actively be working at those businesses for them to be economically viable. Your average caper would rather hop a plane west working 14/14 driving a rock truck for Ledcor for 120k+ than to have to say that they are a “sandwich artist” and take home 40k in wages and maybe another 40k in business profit on their subway. Im also not singling out Cape Bretoners, this is the cross Canadian reality. Immigrants are willing to make sacrifices to get ahead that seem beneath us locals.

If we want less immigrants, then we have to get back to having 4-6 kids and cramming them all in a house, which again few westerners are comfortable doing anymore.

I’m down the other end of the province but I agree with the sentiment, your completely right it is hard to fault them for being willing to endure what we no longer are willing to as a culture to get ahead. We have lost our tribe mentality when I was a kid every little village was basically just one extended family now most people don’t know there neighbours. Houses here no longer pass down through generations same as lobster rigs everyone just sells out and cashes out.