Safari Rifle Market-Have we reached the point of no return on cost?

[RETD16]

Respectfully, in 15 or so years of looking for LH guns (shotguns, lever, bolt, etc) I've never seen a LH model go for less than 130% of a equal specification RH model.
As far as the not selling well, I would probably agree since most LH shooters give up looking for what they want and settle for a compromise (RH model, different caliber, finish) or just give up looking altogether.
Now all that being said: Hunters are a relatively small portion of the population. African hunters, a smaller percentage of that. Dangerous game? The numbers reduce further. Add Left handed to this and it's understandable why there are few options for southpaws.
However; we apparently are supposed to keep 4-$20,000 readily available for years and hopefully be in the right place at the right time when a DG weapon CLOSE to what we want becomes available.
We have become a meme by those who can go buy what they want when they want it for less money. JM .02

I agree with you 100%!!! I look at several venues including auctions to find LH rifles. The last LH 375 H&H that I saw was a Winchester Model 70 Super Express for $4600 on GB. That rifle was priced about $2000 too high, or I’d have bought it!!!

 

[sgt_zim]

I agree with you 100%!!! I look at several venues including auctions to find LH rifles. The last LH 375 H&H that I saw was a Winchester Model 70 Super Express for $4600 on GB. That rifle was priced about $2000 too high, or I’d have bought it!!!

Got the missus a 375 H&H Ruger #1 when we got back from our safari last year, we're both lefties.

"But I wanted a magazine rifle..."

She doesn't understand how difficult and expensive it is to buy LH DG rifles.

If somebody gave me a Ruger #1 in something like 450-400 or 458 or 416, I'd feel forever indebted to them.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

Respectfully, in 15 or so years of looking for LH guns (shotguns, lever, bolt, etc) I've never seen a LH model go for less than 130% of a equal specification RH model.
As far as the not selling well, I would probably agree since most LH shooters give up looking for what they want and settle for a compromise (RH model, different caliber, finish) or just give up looking altogether.
Now all that being said: Hunters are a relatively small portion of the population. African hunters, a smaller percentage of that. Dangerous game? The numbers reduce further. Add Left handed to this and it's understandable why there are few options for southpaws.
However; we apparently are supposed to keep 4-$20,000 readily available for years and hopefully be in the right place at the right time when a DG weapon CLOSE to what we want becomes available.
We have become a meme by those who can go buy what they want when they want it for less money. JM .02

When it comes to LH guns you need to find out if its store owned or if it's on consignment. Many LH gun owners, as you've demonstrated "over value" the guns because there are "so few" out there or have emotional attachment and they sit. A LGS owner knows they don't move quick and often pennies on the dollar, offer to only do consignment, or outright pass on the purchase/trade. I see it daily. Conversely, there are certain LH guns that move extremely fast and do command a premium, think LH Citori, Silver Pigeon, Rem 700BDL in a common caliber, etc. They're typically current production guns in the $1500-4K range new, but not produced often as a LH. However when they're DG Calibers, obscure calibers/builds, or bespoke guns, the odds are more in your favor. Look for dust on them or a consignee that's been there forever.

I'd bet @rookhawk is probably pretty close on how many used LH guns you could get by lowballing every used LH rifle on GB and GI offering 20-40% of asking price. My dad is RH shooter who went blind in his right eye and had to learn to shoot LH. I've bought him several LH guns over the years employing this same lowball tactic, especially when I see dust on them.

 

[fourfive8]

As posted earlier, I have never spent over $2000 for any hunting rifle, DG, PG or otherwise. Therefore I get no vote in the poll HAH! Also, I’m not sure what a “safari rifle” is any way. The least spent for any of my “DG rifles” has been $900 and the most spent $1800. With my go to DG rifle for $1500, a late New Haven Win 70 in 416 Rem, I get the failsafe Win 70 original design trigger and the safety by which all bolt action safeties are judged at no extra cost, both as standard! Additionally, all Win 70s since 1968 have the commonly overlooked anti-bind bolt feature - the slot in the right side lug …

 

[Badjer]

When it comes to LH guns you need to find out if its store owned or if it's on consignment. Many LH gun owners, as you've demonstrated "over value" the guns because there are "so few" out there or have emotional attachment and they sit. A LGS owner knows they don't move quick and often pennies on the dollar, offer to only do consignment, or outright pass on the purchase/trade. I see it daily. Conversely, there are certain LH guns that move extremely fast and do command a premium, think LH Citori, Silver Pigeon, Rem 700BDL in a common caliber, etc. They're typically current production guns in the $1500-4K range new, but not produced often as a LH. However when they're DG Calibers, obscure calibers/builds, or bespoke guns, the odds are more in your favor. Look for dust on them or a consignee that's been there forever.

I'd bet @rookhawk is probably pretty close on how many used LH guns you could get by lowballing every used LH rifle on GB and GI offering 20-40% of asking price. My dad is RH shooter who went blind in his right eye and had to learn to shoot LH. I've bought him several LH guns over the years employing this same lowball tactic, especially when I see dust on them.

honest question --- so if there is a "Buy It Now" price, you ignore it and contact the seller with a low offer?

 

[Badjer]

I looked at this fine rifle every time I went to my FFL to pick up a rifle. It was spectacular and seemingly at around a 50% discount due to being left handed. It lingered forever.

J

Thread 'For Sale Frederick Beesley Left-hand 416 Rigby With Scope'

Aug 19, 2020

FREDERICK BEESLEY LEFT-HAND BOLT ACTION RIFLE
. 416 Rigby caliber
23 1/2" barrel
weight 13 lbs with scope & sling
44 3/4" overall
LOP 14" over 7/8" leather covered recoil pad
raised blade front sight & quarter rib 50 yard rear 'V' sight
trigger currently set at a 3 lb 8 oz pull.
EAW quick release bases carrying a Leupold 1.5-5x scope

The gloss blue barrel is marked with "Frederick Beesley (Formerly of St. James Street, London) Amersham" on top, the scimitar proof and "416 Rigby LP/96" on the right side of the chamber and the London "Crown/GP" on the right side of the receiver. The blued...

• JMM
• Replies: 48
• Forum: Classifieds

• 
• 

J

Thread 'For Sale Frederick Beesley Left-hand 416 Rigby With Scope'

Aug 19, 2020

FREDERICK BEESLEY LEFT-HAND BOLT ACTION RIFLE
. 416 Rigby caliber
23 1/2" barrel
weight 13 lbs with scope & sling
44 3/4" overall
LOP 14" over 7/8" leather covered recoil pad
raised blade front sight & quarter rib 50 yard rear 'V' sight
trigger currently set at a 3 lb 8 oz pull.
EAW quick release bases carrying a Leupold 1.5-5x scope

The gloss blue barrel is marked with "Frederick Beesley (Formerly of St. James Street, London) Amersham" on top, the scimitar proof and "416 Rigby LP/96" on the right side of the chamber and the London "Crown/GP" on the right side of the receiver. The blued...

• JMM
• Replies: 48
• Forum: Classifieds

• 
• 

I looked at this fine rifle every time I went to my FFL to pick up a rifle. It was spectacular and seemingly at around a 50% discount due to being left handed. It lingered forever.

J

Thread 'For Sale Frederick Beesley Left-hand 416 Rigby With Scope'

Aug 19, 2020

FREDERICK BEESLEY LEFT-HAND BOLT ACTION RIFLE
. 416 Rigby caliber
23 1/2" barrel
weight 13 lbs with scope & sling
44 3/4" overall
LOP 14" over 7/8" leather covered recoil pad
raised blade front sight & quarter rib 50 yard rear 'V' sight
trigger currently set at a 3 lb 8 oz pull.
EAW quick release bases carrying a Leupold 1.5-5x scope

The gloss blue barrel is marked with "Frederick Beesley (Formerly of St. James Street, London) Amersham" on top, the scimitar proof and "416 Rigby LP/96" on the right side of the chamber and the London "Crown/GP" on the right side of the receiver. The blued...

• JMM
• Replies: 48
• Forum: Classifieds

• 
• 

I agree. This will be a great rifle for a lefty who has hunted or has plans to hunt DG many times. Personally, I have not hunted DG, yet... So I can't justify cost if I don't have multiple DG hunts planned. (I did look at this gun for a long time though))

 

[Badjer]

Lefties, here's a gift.

Go insultingly low-ball on these. The Cabelas rifle is a good one and it is already discounted, indicating it has languished. I bet you'd get them to take $2800 for a Champlin built custom rifle.

CHAMPLIN ARMS ~ CUSTOM RIFLE ~ LH ~ .25-06 REMINGTON for sale

CHAMPLIN ARMS ~ CUSTOM RIFLE ~ LH ~ .25-06 REMINGTON for sale online.

www.gunsinternational.com

Left hand Biesen custom .338 Winchester Magnum made for family member, integral brake, highly refined, tremendous wood, provenance, 98%, layaway for sale

Left hand Biesen custom .338 Winchester Magnum made for family member, integral brake, highly refined, tremendous wood, provenance, 98%, layaway for sale online.

www.gunsinternational.com

Awesome Custom Rifle. for sale

Awesome Custom Rifle. for sale online.

www.gunsinternational.com

AL BEISEN CUSTOM BOLT RIFLE 7MM WEATHERBY MAGNUM 24" BARREL **LEFT HANDED** for sale

AL BEISEN CUSTOM BOLT RIFLE 7MM WEATHERBY MAGNUM 24" BARREL **LEFT HANDED** for sale online.

www.gunsinternational.com

For shotguns, call Orvis Sandanona in Mill Brook, NY and talk to Greg in the gun room. If they have lefty shotguns in stock on consignment, you'll mop up great deals because they NEVER sell and the consignees get desperate/frustrated.

--I like all of the posts including the falling block, but it kind of proves my point. Leftys largely can't shop for what they want, they have to settle for what's available.
--I first noticed this back in 2008 when I wanted to buy a LH with the latest (at the time) technological advances. I even contacted two manufacturers directly, asking when these features would be available on LH rifles.. They both told me build a custom. I was mad a RH could buy a gun off the shelf for under $1k what a LH would have to pay $2k or more and have to wait months for.
--Myself, being right-handed and left eye dominant, I just shot LH from first picking up a gun. The first 25 years of gun hunting I used RH rifles. It was easier and the animals weren't dangerous. I own 6 LH now. 2 are what I wanted, 3 were compromises to what I wanted, and the most recent is an upgrade to one of the 3 compromises.
--Not faulting or trying to start arguments. LH hunting rifles can be found, much easier than they used to be. LH DG are more rare. It's just plain supply and demand.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

honest question --- so if there is a "Buy It Now" price, you ignore it and contact the seller with a low offer?

All the time.

The “Buy It Now” Price will always be higher than the starting bid.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

--I like all of the posts including the falling block, but it kind of proves my point. Leftys largely can't shop for what they want, they have to settle for what's available.
--I first noticed this back in 2008 when I wanted to buy a LH with the latest (at the time) technological advances. I even contacted two manufacturers directly, asking when these features would be available on LH rifles.. They both told me build a custom. I was mad a RH could buy a gun off the shelf for under $1k what a LH would have to pay $2k or more and have to wait months for.
--Myself, being right-handed and left eye dominant, I just shot LH from first picking up a gun. The first 25 years of gun hunting I used RH rifles. It was easier and the animals weren't dangerous. I own 6 LH now. 2 are what I wanted, 3 were compromises to what I wanted, and the most recent is an upgrade to one of the 3 compromises.
--Not faulting or trying to start arguments. LH hunting rifles can be found, much easier than they used to be. LH DG are more rare. It's just plain supply and demand.

I’m sure you understand the manufacturer’s decision to not make a LH model and direct you to a custom route, is tied to their costs and ROI to maintain profitability.

DG rifles are an EXTREMELY small segment of the hunting rifle market, and hunting rifles themselves are one of the smaller segments of the firearms market. The number of Handguns, AR’s, and Shotguns sold, each dwarfs the number of Centerfire hunting rifles in a year. Most companies aren’t around to just “exist”, and are instead around to make a profit, with the ownership/management team leading that which sometimes involves making a decision to not do or move forward with a product because of the low turn rate.

 

[Badjer]

I’m sure you understand the manufacturer’s decision to not make a LH model and direct you to a custom route, is tied to their costs and ROI to maintain profitability.

DG rifles are an EXTREMELY small segment of the hunting rifle market, and hunting rifles themselves are one of the smaller segments of the firearms market. The number of Handguns, AR’s, and Shotguns sold, each dwarfs the number of Centerfire hunting rifles in a year. Most companies aren’t around to just “exist”, and are instead around to make a profit, with the ownership/management team leading that which sometimes involves making a decision to not do or move forward with a product because of the low turn rate.

I agree completely.. Like I said in my original post make it a LH DG rifle and the market is probably one of the smallest worldwide. I was just adding my .02 about supply vs cost not reaching all segments of safari rifles. At least for the entry level LH DG hunter

 

[rookhawk]

I agree completely.. Like I said in my original post make it a LH DG rifle and the market is probably one of the smallest worldwide. I was just adding my .02 about supply vs cost not reaching all segments of safari rifles. At least for the entry level LH DG hunter

There is more supply than demand. A brand new Parkwest will set you back $13,000. An original Dakota in LH config in 416 Rigby has been on the market for a coons age at $8000.

The problem is that lefties do not think like righties. Clinically, that might be true, but I'm speaking practically and behaviorally.

A righty sees a nice gun and buys it for many reasons. 1.) That's a neat collectible, I just want it!, 2.) Heck, it seems like a great gun, maybe I'll enjoy it awhile and use it as barter fodder to swap into a better gun later. 3.) It's a solid gun I'm going to enjoy using, but if I ever change my mind or need fast liquidity, I can easily sell it any month I want. 4.) Even if I don't use it much, the heirs will surely enjoy it as much as I did.

None of those things apply to the lefty. 1.) There is no such thing as a collector lefty gun. 2.) You can't barter lefty guns, the demand is micro-tiny and the odds of you finding another lefty that wants to barter is statistically near zero. 3.) There is no such thing as liquidity in lefty guns of good to excellent quality. I've posted many examples until I'm blue in the face, yet they don't get purchased. 4.) The odds of heirs being also lefty is statistically low.

And for all of these points, that's why it sounds so absurd when lefties moan and complain that manufacturers need to make more lefty guns for them. Lefties don't spend anywhere near as much on average as righties for points 1-4 above. Its incredible expense to tool up to make lefty weapons that people just won't buy. I've seen gun collections of hundreds or even thousands of best guns, but I've never seen a "collection" of lefty guns. It's a financial dead-end for the manufacturer.

 

[Whit]

J

Thread 'For Sale Frederick Beesley Left-hand 416 Rigby With Scope'

Aug 19, 2020

FREDERICK BEESLEY LEFT-HAND BOLT ACTION RIFLE
. 416 Rigby caliber
23 1/2" barrel
weight 13 lbs with scope & sling
44 3/4" overall
LOP 14" over 7/8" leather covered recoil pad
raised blade front sight & quarter rib 50 yard rear 'V' sight
trigger currently set at a 3 lb 8 oz pull.
EAW quick release bases carrying a Leupold 1.5-5x scope

The gloss blue barrel is marked with "Frederick Beesley (Formerly of St. James Street, London) Amersham" on top, the scimitar proof and "416 Rigby LP/96" on the right side of the chamber and the London "Crown/GP" on the right side of the receiver. The blued...

• JMM
• Replies: 48
• Forum: Classifieds

• 
• 

I agree. This will be a great rifle for a lefty who has hunted or has plans to hunt DG many times. Personally, I have not hunted DG, yet... So I can't justify cost if I don't have multiple DG hunts planned. (I did look at this gun for a long time though))

I think this rifle has been since sold. Someone got a deal.

 

[Whit]

There is more supply than demand. A brand new Parkwest will set you back $13,000. An original Dakota in LH config in 416 Rigby has been on the market for a coons age at $8000.

$8500, but close enough: https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...-inch-95-percent-layaway.cfm?gun_id=103312175

 

[Badjer]

There is more supply than demand. A brand new Parkwest will set you back $13,000. An original Dakota in LH config in 416 Rigby has been on the market for a coons age at $8000.

The problem is that lefties do not think like righties. Clinically, that might be true, but I'm speaking practically and behaviorally.

A righty sees a nice gun and buys it for many reasons. 1.) That's a neat collectible, I just want it!, 2.) Heck, it seems like a great gun, maybe I'll enjoy it awhile and use it as barter fodder to swap into a better gun later. 3.) It's a solid gun I'm going to enjoy using, but if I ever change my mind or need fast liquidity, I can easily sell it any month I want. 4.) Even if I don't use it much, the heirs will surely enjoy it as much as I did.

None of those things apply to the lefty. 1.) There is no such thing as a collector lefty gun. 2.) You can't barter lefty guns, the demand is micro-tiny and the odds of you finding another lefty that wants to barter is statistically near zero. 3.) There is no such thing as liquidity in lefty guns of good to excellent quality. I've posted many examples until I'm blue in the face, yet they don't get purchased. 4.) The odds of heirs being also lefty is statistically low.

And for all of these points, that's why it sounds so absurd when lefties moan and complain that manufacturers need to make more lefty guns for them. Lefties don't spend anywhere near as much on average as righties for points 1-4 above. Its incredible expense to tool up to make lefty weapons that people just won't buy. I've seen gun collections of hundreds or even thousands of best guns, but I've never seen a "collection" of lefty guns. It's a financial dead-end for the manufacturer.

I'm with you. I'm no longer one of the moaners... After my 2008 direct dealings with gun makers I had a reality check. As I said to Mtn Infantry, there are lots more lefty guns now than there used to be. Thanks for your explanation