Any of you stop a charge with a handgun?

This is a video of one of Alaskas best master guides Charles Allen of Knifes of Alaska fame.

This video should be mandatory viewing for all Alaska a-guides for many reasons. Watch how fast that sow closes the distance focused solely on Charlie. I know he carries a backup. He uses his rifle. There’s a lifetime of professional experience gifted to the world in the first three minutes of the video.

 
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So, you're going to tell us that in a charge you will calmly fire controlled, aimed shots with a revolver? Good luck with that.

Try watching videos of LEO's in a fire fight with an armed criminal. With pistols most shots are misses. When rifles are an option they go to those. Something to be learned there. Hunting with a handgun is one thing (and fun) but the question was about stopping a DG charge.

While I have seen a PH carry a 9mm in case of bad guys, I have never seen one carry a big bore revolver in Africa. That should tell you something as well. I will admit that it might be different when leopard hunting with dogs, but I have never done that.
Do not compare most cops with a well trained or seasoned handgun hunter.
Most cops can’t shoot there not gun people and only shoot there require qualification some that only 1 a year
And you can miss here 10 shots and a hit is anywhere in the target outline and it starts at 3 feet. And only 6 shots are at 25 yds everything else is 15 and under.

I have shot multiple hogs charging in the head
Most with the first round
And I am not the only one multiple people have.

I don’t consider myself a grate shot just average
 
Your handicap with a revolver isn’t accuracy. Frankly, what some of you guys can do with a wheel gun is amazing. Your real handicap is power. You simply can’t pack the power of
even a modest rifle like a .375 into a wheelgun, and I doubt anyone on this forum would tout a .375 as a stopping caliber.

As far as accurate, fast shooting with a bolt gun chambered in an appropriate caliber, I can assure from experience that this is possible and effective.
No one is mentioning using a revolver as a main #1 primary weapon in pursuit of a wounded DG...

For me personally, I would prefer a double barrel rifle in 577 Nitro Express in my hands in pursuit of wounded DG...

What is really dumbfounding some, is those who do not want any revolver on them as a backup sidearm in case their rifle malfunctions and they're on the ground on their knees, back or side...

Hypothetical situation below...

You're hunting DG, a cape buffalo or lion. The animal is presenting you a quartering shot, you take the shot and it misses the heart/lung zone and now it's wounded and takes off into the thick brush. You take a second shot as it's running away and it's a miss. You wait for a while and then you and your armed group go in pursuit as the Ph and guide is ahead of you. You're walking through thick brush and trees and it charges at a close distance, you fire your bolt-action rifle for the third time and it's a miss and it's coming for you...

You can either try to rack the bolt again and fire off another shot but, what if you forgot to reload and you're out of ammo or you can't rack that bolt in time like in videos above. Under duress in high stress situations many people have forgotten to reload. You can take out the revolver in a chest holster and shoot or you don't have a backup revolver and have to rely on others to save you.

If you're on the ground in a awkward position is where the handgun is more maneuverable and quicker and only requires one hand. And, a S&W 500 or 500 Linebaugh with solid brass monolithic is what I want in my hands if my rifle malfunctions, I can't work the bolt in time or I forgot to reload.

Bear guides and hunters in Alaska, most of them have sidearms as a backup in brown bear country and many go out there by themselves alone like Phil Shoemaker who's pursued wounded coastal brown bears by himself, not with a team. It's almost mandatory to have a sidearm on them. But, there's something strange with many African hunters where they're allergic to sidearms and it violates their made up theology they created in their heads. It's as if Africa is this romanticized place where you have to be Teddy Roosevelt with just a rifle or something like that. Or, they think that they're fast enough with their rifle but, they're not as fast as those animals. Or, because they don't have to pursue DG by themselves alone, they got a team around them.

Hunters in North America, not all but some especially in Alaska, because of their allowed independence where they can hunt alone they know the importance of a sidearm as a backup. They also don't cry and whine about how heavy their sidearm is when they're out there for days hiking through mountains and forests by themselves carrying all their gear, backpacks by themselves. They also pack all that meat with them with their rifle and sidearm on them all by themselves alone in the middle of no where.

Some of these African hunters here truly think a S&W 500 or 500 Linebaugh solid brass monolithic will just bounce off DG and have no effect and the animal won't even flinch or feel anything. Or simply, if their rifle fails, their Ph and guides will take care of the mess for them.

I'd like to see African hunters pursue DG alone by themselves and then see what they bring as weapons.
 
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Do not compare most cops with a well trained or seasoned handgun hunter.
Most cops can’t shoot there not gun people and only shoot there require qualification some that only 1 a year
And you can miss here 10 shots and a hit is anywhere in the target outline and it starts at 3 feet. And only 6 shots are at 25 yds everything else is 15 and under.

I have shot multiple hogs charging in the head
Most with the first round
And I am not the only one multiple people have.

I don’t consider myself a grate shot just average
Killed a lot of the big five while charging? Just curious.
 
Killed a lot of the big five while charging? Just curious.
Nope never been in Africa.
But if you can make a head shot on a much smaller animal that charging it stand to reason you can make a head shot on something bigger.

And if you can stay calm going through a door with armed people on the other side.
There nothing much more dangerous than that.
 
Killed a lot of the big five while charging? Just curious.
Hell I am not even saying a handgun round would be all that effective on the biggest like elephant, hippo or rino.
I could see it maybe on leopard and lion
The ? Is buff. I really don’t know never saw a cape buff in person.
But hell it’s a souped up cow. And a 300gr jsp will drop a charging river swamp bull.
I have no idea how much thicker a cb skull is.
But if your rifle ant working a would rather the 44 than a case or a poke in its eye.
 
Hell I am not even saying a handgun round would be all that effective on the biggest like elephant, hippo or rino.
I could see it maybe on leopard and lion
The ? Is buff. I really don’t know never saw a cape buff in person.
But hell it’s a souped up cow. And a 300gr jsp will drop a charging river swamp bull.
I have no idea how much thicker a cb skull is.
But if your rifle ant working a would rather the 44 than a case or a poke in its eye.
You raise some good points but, don't limit yourself to a 44 mag. Plenty of handgun calibers that are FAR more powerful like 454 Casull, 480 Ruger, 475 Linebaugh, 500 JRH/500 S&W, 500 Wyoming Express, 500 Linebaugh. You can also get revolvers chambered in 45/70 like the Magnum Research BFR...

Also, you do NOT want to use any soft expanding bullets especially in handgun calibers. Stick to solid monolithic brass/copper or hard cast lead to break bones.
 
Do not compare most cops with a well trained or seasoned handgun hunter.
Most cops can’t shoot there not gun people and only shoot there require qualification some that only 1 a year
And you can miss here 10 shots and a hit is anywhere in the target outline and it starts at 3 feet. And only 6 shots are at 25 yds everything else is 15 and under.

I have shot multiple hogs charging in the head
Most with the first round
And I am not the only one multiple people have.

I don’t consider myself a grate shot just average
A great many cops are also competitive shooters. Granted a lot of them only shoot when they are forced to qualify, but I don't see that as typical. Having had to qualify myself every year while I worked in prisons, I can tell you that your knowledge of the requirements is a little lacking. Yes it starts at 3 Yards (not feet) as that is a common distance for a gun fight. You are expected to get off 2 quick shots into the area the instructor calls (right eye, center chest, groin, etc.). They work their way out from there. We went out to 25 yards with pistols, but you had to get a minimum score in the kill zone. Yes, they stop at 25 yards, it's gunfighting not hunting. There were more than 6 shots fired at each distance. Bullets landing outside of the kill zone didn't count.

It is true that most cops aren't really gun people, and even fewer are hunters, but that does not mean they aren't decent shots. I am a gun guy and a hunter and my shooting was always better than acceptable. I have even shot a 2 inch 3 shot group at 50 yards with my .44 Mag, and have shot a wild hog in California and two warthogs in Zimbabwe with a revolver, but I have no fantasies about stopping a charging cape buffalo or any other heavy dangerous game with a handgun. Period.
 
but I have no fantasies about stopping a charging cape buffalo or any other heavy dangerous game with a handgun. Period.
No one said anything about having a fantasy of trying to stop a DG animal with a handgun...

The question is, what if your primary rifle fails, then what? Going out there with no backup?

Again, in Alaska, hunters have saved their lives with a sidearm against a coastal brown bear or polar bear when their rifle failed or they couldn't deploy their rifle quick enough.

If African hunters were forced to hunt alone by themselves, I think they wouldn't be so confident in having only just a rifle.
 
You raise some good points but, don't limit yourself to a 44 mag. Plenty of handgun calibers that are FAR more powerful like 454 Casull, 480 Ruger, 475 Linebaugh, 500 JRH/500 S&W, 500 Wyoming Express, 500 Linebaugh. You can also get revolvers chambered in 45/70 like the Magnum Research BFR...

Also, you do NOT want to use any soft expanding bullets especially in handgun calibers. Stick to solid monolithic brass/copper or hard cast lead to break bones.
Yes I know.
But for size the 44 bets the bigger guns.
The 5 shot one fits in my overhauls pocket.
Most of my serious use of the hand gun was
years ago before the copper bullet craze
And hardcast were mostly handling options.
That’s why I used jsp

I dont/ am not able to walk enough to really worry about it much anymore
But if I am dressed there a handgun around still.
 
No one said anything about having a fantasy of trying to stop a DG animal with a handgun...

The question is, what if your primary rifle fails, then what? Going out there with no backup?

Again, in Alaska, hunters have saved their lives with a sidearm against a coastal brown bear or polar bear when their rifle failed or they couldn't deploy their rifle quick enough.

If African hunters were forced to hunt alone by themselves, I think they wouldn't be so confident in having only just a rifle.
The PH's often hunt alone. They still don't carry big revolvers.
 
A great many cops are also competitive shooters. Granted a lot of them only shoot when they are forced to qualify, but I don't see that as typical. Having had to qualify myself every year while I worked in prisons, I can tell you that your knowledge of the requirements is a little lacking. Yes it starts at 3 Yards (not feet) as that is a common distance for a gun fight. You are expected to get off 2 quick shots into the area the instructor calls (right eye, center chest, groin, etc.). They work their way out from there. We went out to 25 yards with pistols, but you had to get a minimum score in the kill zone. Yes, they stop at 25 yards, it's gunfighting not hunting. There were more than 6 shots fired at each distance. Bullets landing outside of the kill zone didn't count.

It is true that most cops aren't really gun people, and even fewer are hunters, but that does not mean they aren't decent shots. I am a gun guy and a hunter and my shooting was always better than acceptable. I have even shot a 2 inch 3 shot group at 50 yards with my .44 Mag, and have shot a wild hog in California and two warthogs in Zimbabwe with a revolver, but I have no fantasies about stopping a charging cape buffalo or any other heavy dangerous game with a handgun. Period.
I was going by our old qualification here.
And I would say more than 85% had to do remedial training.
Ours was 6 from 25 yd barricade 3 shots in the targets to go foward
Total of 38 hits. 2 times back to back
Or 3 out of 5.
They could not do it.
They changed to starting at 3 feet (we shot a high hand strike to the target) ( yes we had to hit the target stand before firing)
And moved back it was done to make the 25 yd shots bacilly throw away shots.
And they still had problems .

We used stand black b-27 target any hit in the silhouette was a hit.
It did not matter where if it was on or on the black line it was a hit.
Some of the pd were not any better some worse.
I spent many years doing that and helping our firearms instructor in the annual 40 hr training class
 
A great many cops are also competitive shooters. Granted a lot of them only shoot when they are forced to qualify, but I don't see that as typical. Having had to qualify myself every year while I worked in prisons, I can tell you that your knowledge of the requirements is a little lacking. Yes it starts at 3 Yards (not feet) as that is a common distance for a gun fight. You are expected to get off 2 quick shots into the area the instructor calls (right eye, center chest, groin, etc.). They work their way out from there. We went out to 25 yards with pistols, but you had to get a minimum score in the kill zone. Yes, they stop at 25 yards, it's gunfighting not hunting. There were more than 6 shots fired at each distance. Bullets landing outside of the kill zone didn't count.

It is true that most cops aren't really gun people, and even fewer are hunters, but that does not mean they aren't decent shots. I am a gun guy and a hunter and my shooting was always better than acceptable. I have even shot a 2 inch 3 shot group at 50 yards with my .44 Mag, and have shot a wild hog in California and two warthogs in Zimbabwe with a revolver, but I have no fantasies about stopping a charging cape buffalo or any other heavy dangerous game with a handgun. Period.
And I have not fantasies about stopping charges of a cape buff.
I have stopped hogs, dogs, horses and wild cows . I did not except the hogs even expect to be charged by anything.
They happened and that what was available to use some of the hog were because rifles jamed 742 rem jamomatac and catch dogs nat able to keep a hog Cought

I honestly would never hope to use a handgun again to stop a charge
But would rather have it and never need it than to need it and not have it.

Hell I carry a handgun when dove hunting
Went fishing today yep carry my 44 snubby
 
I think that what you need to do is to book a buffalo hunt over in Africa. Then tell your PH to stay completely out of taking a shot unless his life is threatened. Then with your first shot take a bad one that will likely just make it mad. Put your rifle down and then go into the brush after him with your pistol.

Then if you can come back on here and report the results.

Reading about your list of cartridges is next to a fairy tail. There isn't a cartridge that you listed that you would be able to get off a second aimed shot if you were charged in close quarters. And with using a handgun at a charging animal you would quite likely need two or more shots unless you brained the charging animal.
 
No one is mentioning using a revolver as a main #1 primary weapon in pursuit of a wounded DG...

For me personally, I would prefer a double barrel rifle in 577 Nitro Express in my hands in pursuit of wounded DG...

What is really dumbfounding some, is those who do not want any revolver on them as a backup sidearm in case their rifle malfunctions and they're on the ground on their knees, back or side...

Hypothetical situation below...

You're hunting DG, a cape buffalo or lion. The animal is presenting you a quartering shot, you take the shot and it misses the heart/lung zone and now it's wounded and takes off into the thick brush. You take a second shot as it's running away and it's a miss. You wait for a while and then you and your armed group go in pursuit as the Ph and guide is ahead of you. You're walking through thick brush and trees and it charges at a close distance, you fire your bolt-action rifle for the third time and it's a miss and it's coming for you...

You can either try to rack the bolt again and fire off another shot but, what if you forgot to reload and you're out of ammo or you can't rack that bolt in time like in videos above. Under duress in high stress situations many people have forgotten to reload. You can take out the revolver in a chest holster and shoot or you don't have a backup revolver and have to rely on others to save you.

If you're on the ground in a awkward position is where the handgun is more maneuverable and quicker and only requires one hand. And, a S&W 500 or 500 Linebaugh with solid brass monolithic is what I want in my hands if my rifle malfunctions, I can't work the bolt in time or I forgot to reload.

Bear guides and hunters in Alaska, most of them have sidearms as a backup in brown bear country and many go out there by themselves alone like Phil Shoemaker who's pursued wounded coastal brown bears by himself, not with a team. It's almost mandatory to have a sidearm on them. But, there's something strange with many African hunters where they're allergic to sidearms and it violates their made up theology they created in their heads. It's as if Africa is this romanticized place where you have to be Teddy Roosevelt with just a rifle or something like that. Or, they think that they're fast enough with their rifle but, they're not as fast as those animals. Or, because they don't have to pursue DG by themselves alone, they got a team around them.

Hunters in North America, not all but some especially in Alaska, because of their allowed independence where they can hunt alone they know the importance of a sidearm as a backup. They also don't cry and whine about how heavy their sidearm is when they're out there for days hiking through mountains and forests by themselves carrying all their gear, backpacks by themselves. They also pack all that meat with them with their rifle and sidearm on them all by themselves alone in the middle of no where.

Some of these African hunters here truly think a S&W 500 or 500 Linebaugh solid brass monolithic will just bounce off DG and have no effect and the animal won't even flinch or feel anything. Or simply, if their rifle fails, their Ph and guides will take care of the mess for them.

I'd like to see African hunters pursue DG alone by themselves and then see what they bring as weapons.

What you are saying about hunters in Alaska carrying sidearms as a rule is simply not true. I am sure there are some, but they are the exception not the rule. We rely on our rifles when we are hunting bear.
 
What you are saying about hunters in Alaska carrying sidearms as a rule is simply not true. I am sure there are some, but they are the exception not the rule. We rely on our rifles when we are hunting bear.

Check out the video of my buddy and his son with the charging griz shared earlier in this thread. I don’t even have to watch it to tell you that there is not a sidearm in that adventure, and I assure you, they are two of the best hunters in that state.
 
No one said anything about having a fantasy of trying to stop a DG animal with a handgun...

The question is, what if your primary rifle fails, then what? Going out there with no backup?

Again, in Alaska, hunters have saved their lives with a sidearm against a coastal brown bear or polar bear when their rifle failed or they couldn't deploy their rifle quick enough.

If African hunters were forced to hunt alone by themselves, I think they wouldn't be so confident in having only just a rifle.
Big difference between a domestic cow or semi domestic hog and an angry Cape buffalo. I was not real crazy about culling a cow from a breeding buffalo herd. Sounded to me like shooting farm animals. Both PH and lodge owner laughed. "You don't understand. Buffalo do not like people." The next day proved them right. Besides cranky disposition, buffalo carry significant armor on their head, over their body, and internally. Domestic livestock have been bred to have thinner hides, less bone mass, and no horns, let alone any bosses. All that stuff is discarded at the slaughter house or kitchen. We breed livestock for less waste. Similarly, livestock are bred to be more habituatable to humans. So comparing pistol killing them to buffalo is apples and oranges.

And once again, only a fool would expect to make practical use of a handgun as a backup during a tinfoil hat "what if" situation where 1) his rifle managed to inflict a non mortal wound on a buffalo but then somehow irreparably malfunctioned, 2) the buffalo charges instead of running away, 3) PH and/or his gun fails to stop buffalo, and 4) hunter, when faced with an unprecedented situation of instant eminent threat to life and limb, suddenly has the mental clarity to discard his unexpectedly useless rifle, draw his monster hand cannon from holster and dispatch the fully armored, full tilt running, very close range, angry buffalo before it can reduce him to a steaming bloody pile of mush. Why can't you grasp the silliness of this absurdly improbable scenario?

Someday you may finally get to Africa. I would not want to be your PH!
 
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What you are saying about hunters in Alaska carrying sidearms as a rule is simply not true. I am sure there are some, but they are the exception not the rule. We rely on our rifles when we are hunting bear.
Where are the studies/data of large sample sizes that prove most hunters never have sidearms on them in Alaska? Not some random news story, blogs or anecdotes but, an official government or academic study backed up by math.
 

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