Shooting vs Hunting / A Growing Ethical Issue

[Flbt]

Well there is another option if you want regulation. Not on the hunters.
But on advertising long range hunting
Limit the rang that can be shown on hunting shows
Don’t show any kills on hunting shows
Stop forums form talking about distance of shots
Stop YouTube videos showing range or kill shots


No I really am not for regulation of adds and videos
But I don’t want more government interference with hunting either.

But taking away the manufacture and entertainment push for long range shooting
I believe would stop it.
No bragging and appreciation would probably stop it quicker than having government restrictions.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

If it’s leagle it’s is ok.
Ethics are meaningless. What you see as ethical others don’t.
Why do you think you’re ethnics / opinions should be forced on others?

Yeah, we should all be shooting deer in the headlights, dropping bombs on them with drones, baiting, poisoning water holes, etc. Do what you think is right. Only your thoughts matter. Pfffft!

 

[Flbt]

Ethics are only meaningless to a fool. This is a complex issue and goes beyond ethics if you care to read. Regulating equipment to regulate harvest creating more hunting opportunity is more a practical issue than an ethical issue. The same applies to those in defense of long range shooting. It allows them to harvest game where they otherwise couldn’t. A practical issue.

Maybe where that’s a issue
For years you could take 2 deer a day here
Now we are limited to 5 a year
Unless you go and get other permits beyond the normal hunting tags.
And me taking a shot on my farm side what ever the range is not changing your chance
Because you want be hunting here anyway.
Fl has a lot of public land but there none with in a 35 mile ride of me.
Hunting land is limited with out long shots

And I would say the exact opposite on ethics
The man that believes in them with out definition is a fool and a dammed big one and dangerous to have around politics.

I have been to different places hunting around different hunters. No one agrees what ethical hunting is.
How can it have meaning if no one agrees to what it is?

 

[JimP]

What’s open sights supposed to do?
Bill Dixon made a 1500yd shot with a sharps

So there will probably be more wounded game where opens are mandatory.

Bill Dixon was a accomplished shot with that sharps unlike most hunters with a rifle and open sights.

If you look at it 99% of any and all rifles now days carry scopes and even quite of few of that 99% don't even have a option of open sights.

 

[Flbt]

Yeah, we should all be shooting deer in the headlights, dropping bombs on them with drones, baiting, poisoning water holes, etc. Do what you think is right. Only your thoughts matter. Pfffft!

Yes it legal
Hell you can go on air hog hunts now
You can shoot them at night
Hell I have shot deer at night completely legal
It’s called crop damage permit ( because hunting has not controlled the population)
Coon hunting and fox hunting is traditionally done at night

Bombs I not sure on the safety aspect but have seen hogs taken out with tanarit

State of tx has poison them I have heard talk of others looking into it.

We are talking hunting not just deer.
A lot of thing on your list ( not sure if you’re just being a smart ass)
Are all ready being done and is completely legal.

 

[Flbt]

Bill Dixon was a accomplished shot with that sharps unlike most hunters with a rifle and open sights.

If you look at it 99% of any and all rifles now days carry scopes and even quite of few of that 99% don't even have a option of open sights.

How many shooters have you talked to that don’t think they are accomplished shooter s?
I have seen people that just bought a gun thinking they can shoot
Don’t think limited equipment will stop asshole form being assholes.

I have worked with people that bought a package rifle from Walmart and took it hunting with out every shooting it.

Hell on a gun fourm how many clam 1/2 rifles?

 

[Daisy]

Making scopes illegal and only using open sights wouldn’t stop people from taking unethical shots. The amount of wounded animals would skyrocket imo.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Yes it legal
Hell you can go on air hog hunts now
You can shoot them at night
Hell I have shot deer at night completely legal
It’s called crop damage permit ( because hunting has not controlled the population)
Coon hunting and fox hunting is traditionally done at night

Bombs I not sure on the safety aspect but have seen hogs taken out with tanarit

State of tx has poison them I have heard talk of others looking into it.

We are talking hunting not just deer.
A lot of thing on your list ( not sure if you’re just being a smart ass)
Are all ready being done and is completely legal.

Shooting that stuff at night is not hunting. It's getting rid of undesirable animals. Taking out the trash. I swat mosquitoes after dark too. Sheesh!

 

[Flbt]

Everyone gets mad at me saying ethnics are meaningless.
If ever one’s ethics were use to determine what hunting should be legal. THEN WHAT HUNTING WOULD BE LEAGLE?
NONE.
Who has problems with?
Dog hunting
Hunting over bait
Use of bows
Use of compound bows
Use of crossbows
Use of rifles for turkey
Use of big shot for turkey
Use of shotguns on big game

If you go by every one personally ethics nothing will be legal.
Because we don’t all agree to that what ethics are.

 

[Flbt]

Everyone gets mad at me saying ethnics are meaningless.
If ever one’s ethics were use to determine what hunting should be legal. THEN WHAT HUNTING WOULD BE LEAGLE?
NONE.
Who has problems with?
Dog hunting
Hunting over bait
Use of bows
Use of compound bows
Use of crossbows
Use of rifles for turkey
Use of big shot for turkey
Use of shotguns on big game

If you go by every one personally ethics nothing will be legal.
Because we don’t all agree to that what ethics are.

Then let’s not forget there more people with ethics that call for no hunting at all.

So if we make laws by ethics they get to make ethical laws to

 

[DieJager]

This thread is derailing again. Perfect example why we can't have nice things and why ethics, yes ethics are needed.

We can't even have a normal debate anymore. Hight trust societies do not need a lot of rules and laws. But sadly a lot of the Western world, that used to be high trust societies aren't anymore.

Loss of religion is one of the contributors. But not solely. So when the same ethics are not widely distributed and shared in a society you need more rules. Because a lot more people will act as selfish a**holes.

 

[Flbt]

Shooting that stuff at night is not hunting. It's getting rid of undesirable animals. Taking out the trash. I swat mosquitoes after dark too. Sheesh!

I actually agree with that
But the words used in the permit language is hunting.
I would say pest control.
But every time I have called the permit in to activate it
Who will be hunting tonight what truck will be used during the hunt
When you call in to deactivate it such and such one permit # are through hunting for tonight.

But the difference here is my mosquitoes tonight could be some ones trophy tomorrow.
And that’s just the hogs and deer.
Coon and fox have all ways been a night hunt active legally and by tradition

 

[375Fox]

Everyone gets mad at me saying ethnics are meaningless.
If ever one’s ethics were use to determine what hunting should be legal. THEN WHAT HUNTING WOULD BE LEAGLE?
NONE.
Who has problems with?
Dog hunting
Hunting over bait
Use of bows
Use of compound bows
Use of crossbows
Use of rifles for turkey
Use of big shot for turkey
Use of shotguns on big game

If you go by every one personally ethics nothing will be legal.
Because we don’t all agree to that what ethics are.

Laws are a representation of society and generally accepted ethics not individual ethics. We would have no wildlife in the US if several with ethics hadn’t stepped in over a hundred years ago to stop unregulated hunting. People often act solely in their own interest in the absence of laws. That’s why they are needed.

It’s spelled LEGAL by the way.

 

[Flbt]

This thread is derailing again. Perfect example why we can't have nice things and why ethics, yes ethics are needed.

We can't even have a normal debate anymore. Hight trust societies do not need a lot of rules and laws. But sadly a lot of the Western world, that used to be high trust societies aren't anymore.

Loss of religion is one of the contributors. But not solely. So when the same ethics are not widely distributed and shared in a society you need more rules. Because a lot more people will act as selfish a**holes.

I don’t think it’s getting derailed
I actually agree with most on here about what a hunt is. But when you get a lot of laws and regulations involved it gets messy quickly.
And I have a problem with ethics because if there no agreement to what is and what’s not ethical then there no meaning.

One law here
You can not hunt over bait. ( ok good easy to understand)
Next line
You can hunt within proximity to a game feeding station. If the station have been in continual use for 6 months pryer to hunting activity.

Ok what’s proximity?
What’s continual?
They don’t give a distance you have to be away.
Except for turkey 100yd it’s the only animal listed with a distance.

Continual does that mean food has to be there 24-7
You have to have a set day of the week to put food there?
What if you been using the exact spot for years and only put food out on the weeks you hunt?

I don’t like gray areas in the laws that can put you in jail and take your rifle

 

[Flbt]

Laws are a representation of society and generally accepted ethics not individual ethics. We would have no wildlife in the US if several with ethics hadn’t stepped in over a hundred years ago to stop unregulated hunting. People often act solely in their own interest in the absence of laws. That’s why they are needed.

It’s spelled LEGAL by the way.

I can see that. And I hit the spelling that pops up on the phone (dyslexia may type it legal) may come up correctly.

I think bow hunting is not ethical and I know others do to.
And I know bow hunters that think crossbow are unethical
I like dog hunting but I know there a large number of hunters that don’t.
So how do you decide what is representative?
100 yds for east cost?
200?
500?
If we as hunters can’t agree on methods of hunting as ethical how in the hell do we agree on a range?
And is the rang different for different animals?
Is it different in different states?
Public vs private have different range limits?

 

[Russ16]

Yes it legal
Hell you can go on air hog hunts now
You can shoot them at night
Hell I have shot deer at night completely legal
It’s called crop damage permit ( because hunting has not controlled the population)
Coon hunting and fox hunting is traditionally done at night

Bombs I not sure on the safety aspect but have seen hogs taken out with tanarit

State of tx has poison them I have heard talk of others looking into it.

We are talking hunting not just deer.
A lot of thing on your list ( not sure if you’re just being a smart ass)
Are all ready being done and is completely legal.

I’ve seen the tannerite too and don’t think that’s ethical great chance for suffering.

I’ve seen the videos of guys running down hogs at night shooting them with ARs from moving vehicles and running over the little ones. It frankly makes me sick to see guys hooting and laughing as they do it.

But eliminating a problem animal is not hunting. Ask the guys who did elephant culls they didn’t like it. I don’t think shooting hogs from the air should be called hunting. But I know hog populations need to be reduced.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Crap, I always miss the opening posts on these threads. Oh well, better late than never. Maybe I should start a thread on Bergers.

 

[ftrovato]

My effective range is inline with, 'I want to see the whites in their eyes'. For me, that is what I do as a hunter.

However I love the shooting sports and was decent out to 400 yards many years ago when that was considered a country mile.

I think the ethical responsibility of insuring a clean kill is where the water gets muddy.

Many won't hold themselves to what is their true effective range.

 

[Cooposo]

Many won't hold themselves to what is their true effective range.

Many do not shoot enough at range, in field positions, to even know what their true effective range is. Let alone hold themselves to that. A conversation I’ve had with multiple friends and family members lately:

Me- “How far would you shoot at an animal?”
Him- “Oh…with good conditions…maybe [500-700] yards”.
Me- “You’ve tested your gun out that far?”

Their answer at this point depending on the person, has been:

1) No, but the guy that set up my rifle did, and he said it’s good for that far (cousin)
2) No, but I’ve shot good groups at 200 yards, and I can dial out further (coworker)
3) Yes, once, on steel plates from the bench (friend).

To a man, however, they had confidence in long range shooting at animals because of how much they see people do it on YouTube, and told me as much.

 

[ftrovato]

Many do not shoot enough at range, in field positions, to even know what their true effective range is. Let alone hold themselves to that. A conversation I’ve had with multiple friends and family members lately:

Me- “How far would you shoot at an animal?”
Him- “Oh…with good conditions…maybe [500-700] yards”.
Me- “You’ve tested your gun out that far?”

Their answer at this point depending on the person, has been:

1) No, but the guy that set up my rifle did, and he said it’s good for that far (cousin)
2) No, but I’ve shot good groups at 200 yards, and I can dial out further (coworker)
3) Yes, once, on steel plates from the bench (friend).

To a man, however, they had confidence in long range shooting at animals because of how much they see people do it on YouTube, and told me as much.

All fair and accurate points!