What's up with this compass?

WebleyGreene455

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Hi folks.

What's the deal with this compass?

1642457951534.png


It's apparently a forestry compass, so I understand why having the clinometer would be useful. Tree heights and slopes and so on. But reversing East and West confuses me, and I can't figure why North is apparently placed at 180 degrees instead of 0/360. How does one navigate properly with one of these? If at all?

~~W.G.455
 
“What’s up with this compass?” It would seem “north” is not the answer.

Interested in the answer to this one.

:D Pop Popcorn:
 
It is compensating for the direction the compass itself is pointing “knowing” that the needle is always pointing north.

If you lay a compass flat with it pointing north, then rotate the body of the compass left/west, the needle in fact “rotates” toward East. This compass reverses E/w so you can turn the compass and read accurately the degrees the compass itself is pointing - east or west.

and that’s a lovely compass, by the way.
 
The newer ones can adjust north. It helps your shoot a line much more accurately. Take a look at the Silva Ranger. With a little practice you can run lines almost as accurately as a transit.
 
Looks like good quality- neat compass! My guess it's similar to a regular lensatic but has a mirror- so naturally all directions will be reversed when viewed directly but correct when viewed in mirror image.
I think they are called mirror compasses. Here is a link to an explanation
 
It is designed to take a bearing on a distant object. The mirror is placed at a 45 degree angle facing the user. The object is sighted through the clear hole at the base of the mirror and the bearing read in the mirror. The bearing can then be transferred to a map. Older British designs also had a folding front peep to achieve greater accuracy.

Turn it on its side, and the mirror can be used to read slope angle.

There is a company in California producing these as a gift idea.
 
The newer ones can adjust north. It helps your shoot a line much more accurately. Take a look at the Silva Ranger. With a little practice you can run lines almost as accurately as a transit.
I learned basic land navigation with a compass like the Silva Ranger years ago. Those made sense to me, lol. This one, I'm just baffled by. Found it online and thought it looked neat but I'm not gonna buy a compass that confuses me unless I figure out how to be un-confused.

@baxterb Okay I think I've found out what you mean? If I'm standing facing north with that compass and I real-sudden-like turn right, the needle's gonna be hovering over E to show I am, in fact, facing east, yeah? That makes sense. But North being placed at 180 degrees still baffles me on the dial, unless the dial can move as well.

@Red Leg Ah, alright, I had a feeling the mirror had something to do with it. The clinometer part was easy; the website explains that bit exactly as you did.
 
It is designed to take a bearing on a distant object. The mirror is placed at a 45 degree angle facing the user. The object is sighted through the clear hole at the base of the mirror and the bearing read in the mirror. The bearing can then be transferred to a map. Older British designs also had a folding front peep to achieve greater accuracy.

Turn it on its side, and the mirror can be used to read slope angle.

There is a company in California producing these as a gift idea.
If the company is Stanley London, that's the website I'm looking at.

The compass in question: https://www.stanleylondon.com/perso...meter-brass-pocket-compass-gift-engraved.html

Older British designs with a folding peep sorta like this surveying compass? https://www.stanleylondon.com/brass-stand-surveying-compass.html
 
I would assume that is the company.

This is a somewhat simpler period British version of the same basic concept. A good man with one of these could create a remarkably accurate map. It would have been the sort of instrument Stanley or Baker would have found a necessity.

This is a Brinton that I picked up in a Souk in Saudi Arabia back in the eighties. Always wondered if Lawrence dropped it. :unsure: :cool:

compass.jpg
 
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I would assume that is the company.

This is a somewhat simpler period British version of the same basic concept. A good man with one of these could create a remarkably accurate map. It would have been the sort of instrument Stanley or Baker would have found a necessity.

View attachment 447232
Very nice. That's the sort of thing I was looking for when I found the one above.

From what I've managed to find online (which isn't much), Stanley London compasses etc are made (as I suspected) en masse in India and may look quite pretty but are inexpertly made and work rather for crap, if at all. So I wouldn't expect this one to be worth the money.

But thanks to you folks, I at least know now how to work one like it and am not baffled by its design.
 
@WebleyGreene455, If you want an easy to use accurate compass hard to beat US mislurp lensatic. The mirror compasses take a little more practice but not hard to use either. The basic lensatic is very accurate. The mirror type like the one you posted a pic of allows for a very precise aiming azimuth line because the line is on the mirror so is in the same focal plane as a distant target. Whereas the standard lensatic compass is like aiming a rifle using a wire front sight and open U notch rear sight. Both are very good, useful compasses.

Also when using any magnetic compass be sure to allow for magnetic declination based on current date and location. The magnetic pole does shift around quite a lot and the farther north you are there can be a very large declination.
 
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I learned basic land navigation with a compass like the Silva Ranger years ago. Those made sense to me, lol. This one, I'm just baffled by. Found it online and thought it looked neat but I'm not gonna buy a compass that confuses me unless I figure out how to be un-confused.

@baxterb Okay I think I've found out what you mean? If I'm standing facing north with that compass and I real-sudden-like turn right, the needle's gonna be hovering over E to show I am, in fact, facing east, yeah? That makes sense. But North being placed at 180 degrees still baffles me on the dial, unless the dial can move as well.

@Red Leg Ah, alright, I had a feeling the mirror had something to do with it. The clinometer part was easy; the website explains that bit exactly as you did.

It is exactly as red leg states. The Ranger you used also had a mirror with a line drawn vertically on it and a v sight at the top. What you have appears to be a vintage version. Without the convenience of an adjustable north. No big deal, just a little math to calculate your line.
 
It is designed to take a bearing on a distant object. The mirror is placed at a 45 degree angle facing the user. The object is sighted through the clear hole at the base of the mirror and the bearing read in the mirror. The bearing can then be transferred to a map. Older British designs also had a folding front peep to achieve greater accuracy.

Turn it on its side, and the mirror can be used to read slope angle.

There is a company in California producing these as a gift idea.

I agree with your explanation except for the term “bearing.” I think the number read directly from the compass in the direction it is pointed is an azimuth. Bearing is the angular measurement less than 90 degrees from a cardinal direction, like North 45 degrees West.
 
I agree with your explanation except for the term “bearing.” I think the number read directly from the compass in the direction it is pointed is an azimuth. Bearing is the angular measurement less than 90 degrees from a cardinal direction, like North 45 degrees West.
You are correct.
 
I agree with your explanation except for the term “bearing.” I think the number read directly from the compass in the direction it is pointed is an azimuth. Bearing is the angular measurement less than 90 degrees from a cardinal direction, like North 45 degrees West.

yup. I had to teach myself the bearing method and rods and chains, etc of surveying to read an old land plat map to find a piece of land Robert Ruark once owned. Long story.
 
It is exactly as red leg states. The Ranger you used also had a mirror with a line drawn vertically on it and a v sight at the top. What you have appears to be a vintage version. Without the convenience of an adjustable north. No big deal, just a little math to calculate your line.
I was mistaken; I've used a different compass from the Ranger (clicked on the wrong item when I looked at the Silva website). The one I used was lacking the mirror but was otherwise a see-through plastic compass. But I see what you're saying. With some practice, I'm sure I wouldn't have an issue using something like that instead of the typical orientation. Just not with the one I've linked, lol. I think having a compass that actually works correctly and accurately would be rather important.

I did just happen upon this one: https://www.etsy.com/listing/765671...71286&click_sum=06f86bfc&ref=shop_home_recs_1

It's rather like Red Leg's and, oddly, is ALSO in Saudi Arabia. Not sure of the authenticity. The seller mostly seems to sell assorted copies of the Koran, at least on Etsy, so why he's got a compass listed, I couldn't say.
 

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I was mistaken; I've used a different compass from the Ranger (clicked on the wrong item when I looked at the Silva website). The one I used was lacking the mirror but was otherwise a see-through plastic compass. But I see what you're saying. With some practice, I'm sure I wouldn't have an issue using something like that instead of the typical orientation. Just not with the one I've linked, lol. I think having a compass that actually works correctly and accurately would be rather important.

I did just happen upon this one: https://www.etsy.com/listing/765671286/old-antique-nautical-brass-copper?click_key=e6acdafa4afeda31c915b9dbcf042c5e2b61c3a1:765671286&click_sum=06f86bfc&ref=shop_home_recs_1

It's rather like Red Leg's and, oddly, is ALSO in Saudi Arabia. Not sure of the authenticity. The seller mostly seems to sell assorted copies of the Koran, at least on Etsy, so why he's got a compass listed, I couldn't say.
If you google "Brass Art Wares" it won't give you a warm feeling about authenticity.
 
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@WebleyGreene455, If you want an easy to use accurate compass hard to beat US mislurp lensatic. The mirror compasses take a little more practice but not hard to use either. The basic lensatic is very accurate. The mirror type like the one you posted a pic of allows for a very precise aiming azimuth line because the line is on the mirror so is in the same focal plane as a distant target. Whereas the standard lensatic compass is like aiming a rifle using a wire front sight and open U notch rear sight. Both are very good, useful compasses.

Also when using any magnetic compass be sure to allow for magnetic declination based on current date and location. The magnetic pole does shift around quite a lot and the farther north you are there can be a very large declination.
I've got a couple of those somewhere or another. But I was looking for something of older vintage. Actually I was looking for a basic pocket-watch-style compass, nothing fancy, and didn't mind if it was genuinely vintage or not. Hence my finding those made-in-wherever ones. Which for display would be fine but even if I just end up using one for show as a reenactor or whatever, I'd want it to be properly functional.

Found some WWI-era British Verner's, all of which carry a premium due to having their former owners' names on them or on their cases; a 1910s Short & Mason that looks rather nice; and a British pocket watch-style one marked "Gamage's Territorial Compass" that suggests the user can make the dial visible at night by either exposing it to daylight or by burning a 1-inch strip of magnesium close to the dial. The latter is apparently the "preferable" method, although I don't think all that many people tended to carry strips of magnesium in their pockets as a general thing.
 

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