Ruger Guide Gun 416 Ruger Review

[EjectorSwipe]

I am currently preparing for a hunt in September and picked up a Ruger Guide Gun in 416 Ruger since I had the good fortune of having a friend that was willing to share brass. There's lots of information on the guide gun and the 416 but it is mostly scattered. I have done a lot of searching on this forum and the internet in general to find the answers to some of my questions. My goal is to chronicle my journey with this rifle and reloading for 416.

My initial plan was a 375 H&H or 416 rem in an FN or Mod 70 but ruger already built the gun I wanted with a few caveats. I have a large bore suppressor and really wanted a threaded barrel for that. I also have a M77 in 300wm that has been great.

Out of the box review:
Weight I believe was 8lb1oz out of the box. Nice matte finish, not my favorite as it shows rubs easily. After working the bolt a few hundred times, the contact surfaces smooth out and it cycles nicely. Factory Trigger 4lb, and not creepy. Feeds from the magazine without issues, ejects with enthusiasm.

I shot it initially without modification with open sights and Hornady DGS ammunition. This ammo was somewhere around 2330fps. It shouldered well with 1 spacer, but I later put 2. The rifle comes with 3 but the screws are not long enough to work. Front sight is a little strange and is for a 6:00 hold. It is windage adjustable but not adjustable for elevation.

Overall, you could hunt with this rifle out of the box with factory ammo. It's not going to win any pageants but it is very functional.

What I added:
Trijicon Credo Hx 1-6 SFP 223 BDC Red illumination- great scope so far, the SFP version has better glass and a daylight bright LED. You do not want green or FFP. I would much prefer a true MOA or MIL reticle but this ticked all the other boxes. I hope to not be using the 416 long range anyway.

Alaska Arms QD 30mm medium rings - I have nothing bad to say about these ,they are well designed and well machined. Worth the money.

Blue Force Gear Vickers sling - pretty good sling if you are willing to shorten it. Very adjustable once in the right range. Swivels I bought for it dont fit correctly on the guide gun barrel swivel as it is not chamfered.

Next will be modifications.

 

[USMA84DAB]

Thanks for sharing this.

 

[EjectorSwipe]

Trigger:

The first modification was installing an adjustable timney trigger. These are not really advertised as a drop in and they are definitely not a drop in. A company called spec tech used to make triggers for the M77 and I have installed several of them, they work great but I cannot remember if they came with a sear.

Bottom line for the Timney. Its a PITA but functions well after fitting. The sear is a little longer than the original and shaped differently. I had to modify the trigger to get enough travel and let the sear drop without rubbing on the trigger or cocking piece. The timney trigger is very hard metal and is not easily filed, you need diamond files and diamond tip dremel bits to make much progress. Luckily, both are cheap. If you go slow and are prepared to uninstall and re-install the trigger about 100 times then this is a pretty easy job. I did not have to modify any sear/trigger mating surfaces.

Bedding:

Bedding a ruger can be a pain. From the factory the entire bottom of the barrel made contact with the stock. You can free float the barrel first and then bed or bed then free float. I decided to free float first and then bed with spacers to get the thickness I wanted. This way I could use marker to see how good the factory bedding was once the barrel channel was enlarged. Turns out it had pretty good recoil lug engagement but there was still some possible lateral movement at the tang. I used JB weld steel in the bedding areas with electrical tape around the barrel at the tip of the forearm and some credit card pieces on the flat spots in front of the tang to keep the action level. It is important to relieve the area at the back of the tang after bedding so you dont turn your tang into a new recoil lug.

After free floating the barrel it became clear that from the factory the box magazine is clamped tightly by the trigger guard and front action screw. Bedding helped, and a little filing got it to fit well in place with some clearance.

 

[mark-hunter]

Good start up!

We need some pictures.
And, of course, share with us your hunting itinerary? DGS? Would it be for buffalo by any chance?

 

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Muzzle Threads/Suppressor:

This is my #1 complaint with how this rifle is designed. Ruger uses stupid muzzle threads on the guide guns. The 375 ruger is 5/8x18 and the 416 ruger is 5/8x28. They sould have gone with a normal pitch that is appropriate for caliber/common.

That being said, there are ways around this.
1 - cut and rethread barrel - expensive and lose barrel length off an already short barrel
2 - thread adapter. I did this one at first but it extends the barrel. ***DISCLAIMER*** this thread adapter will not work without modification! Thread adapter . The bore on this adapter is too small for a 416 straight from x caliber. I put it in a lathe and bored it out. It worked fine with my hybrid 46M and the machining by x caliber was excellent.
3 - Hopefully my final solution. The hybrid 46m has interchangeable direct thread mounts. I emailed several machine shops and places that make silencer parts and nobody was interested in making one with appropriate threads. So, I bought a 1/2x28 direct thread mount and made a fixture to hold it in my lathe. After cutting the threads it works well and keeps the length down. The 416 bullet has hot dog/hallway clearance down the 46M bore. The suppressor is helpful for recoil, but not as much as a caliber specific suppressor woulld be.

 

[EjectorSwipe]

Good start up!

We need some pictures.
And, of course, share with us your hunting itinerary? DGS? Would it be for buffalo by any chance?

I forgot photos, I'll try to add them back to their approrpate spots. Hunting Limpopo with Kwalata in September. Plan to do Buffalo (probably cow) and some other plains game I haven't hunted before.

 

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Missed the edit window.

Out of the box

After modifications

Weight with scope, rings, sling, and suppressor. I believe I had the extractor and box mag out though so its probably a shade over 10.5lb.

Suppressor mount modification

 

[K-man]

The .416 Ruger is good buffalo/elephant medicine. Glad you are getting your own personalization on yours. Let us see how it shoots!!

 

[Cowboy777]

Very nice. I have been building a similar set up this month. I picked up a new guide gun in 416 with reloading dies for $950, what a steal.!
I went with a silencerco hybrid 46dt with 11/16-24 bravo mount and a Hughes thread adapter 5/8-28 to 11/16-24. My hope is to get a custom bravo mount in 5/8-28 to shorten it and reduce tolerance stacking. I mounted a leupold delta point pro on the front mount. I went with the 6moa dot, my thought was big game inside if 50 yards. I zeroed this morning at 50 and held a 2.5 moa group. It was difficult to get a consistent hold with that large of a red dot that covered center but should be fine on large game. Still need to add a sling but very happy with this setup.

 

[Andrew NOLA]

I have 300 WM, 338 WM, 375 Ruger and 416 Ruger in guide/Alaskan rifles and the thread is different for each caliber. Can not understand why Ruger would do that. Otherwise, am very pleased with he rifles.

I am in the middle for looking for a direct mount hub for 5/8 x 28. I will let you know what I find. I "think" a) the direct mount adapters are interchangeable between brands (if yours uses a 1.375 base) and b) I "think" I might have a source for them in all the Ruger sizes. I will know more by end of day Monday and I will revert. I am in the middle of this as well. I am not willing to use an adapter that adds length as well as stacks tolerances.

I also changed the stocks to Bell and Carlson as they have a full length aluminum bedding block thru the wrist and a wide enough barrel channel so the barrel does not touch. The guide gun stocks are not free floated, the Alaskans are free floated (barely). I did not like the feel of the rubber Houge Alaskan stocks.

I also added the Alaskan Arms +1 floor plate. I found the triggers acceptable from Ruger (so far).

I personally prefer a 2 MOA dot, when I use one. Aim small, miss small. I have to either go red dot or low power scope with aging eyesight. FWIW.

 

[EjectorSwipe]

I have 300 WM, 338 WM, 375 Ruger and 416 Ruger in guide/Alaskan rifles and the thread is different for each caliber. Can not understand why Ruger would do that. Otherwise, am very pleased with he rifles.

I am in the middle for looking for a direct mount hub for 5/8 x 28. I will let you know what I find. I "think" a) the direct mount adapters are interchangeable between brands (if yours uses a 1.375 base) and b) I "think" I might have a source for them in all the Ruger sizes. I will know more by end of day Monday and I will revert. I am in the middle of this as well. I am not willing to use an adapter that adds length as well as stacks tolerances.

I also changed the stocks to Bell and Carlson as they have a full length aluminum bedding block thru the wrist and a wide enough barrel channel so the barrel does not touch. The guide gun stocks are not free floated, the Alaskans are free floated (barely). I did not like the feel of the rubber Houge Alaskan stocks.

I also added the Alaskan Arms +1 floor plate. I found the triggers acceptable from Ruger (so far).

I personally prefer a 2 MOA dot, when I use one. Aim small, miss small. I have to either go red dot or low power scope with aging eyesight. FWIW.

I thought I did an exhaustive search on options for mounting on 5/8x28. If you find something I will be impressed. I have a B&C on my M77 MkII 300wm and have been very happy with it.

 

[EjectorSwipe]

Reloading the 416 Ruger, advice welcome.

I have reloaded for many different rifle chamberings from 223 up to 300WM, but my reloading is generally for target shooting. the 416 required some extra equipment, and I found some things were not readily available. I use an expander die for my match ammo and had to make a custom expander to open then necks and uniform crushed necks on the new hornady brass. Also had to make a headspace gauge for the 416 that fit in the hornady comparator. This comes in handy for setting up your sizing die and helped me solve a mystery (hopefully).

Components:
Hornady brass
CCI 250
Varget and later CFE223
North fork 400gr Semi Spitzer and 400gr Cup Point Solids

Dies: Hornady New Dimension, Lee factory crimp
*the hornady dies can crimp, but i set it up to be a separate process

I generally start reloading with a match rifle by finding the point that the OGIVE hits the lands of the rifling. This turns out to be a fools errand with the 416 because you will not be able to fit that round in the magazine most likely.

I had read that varget would be a good powder for the 416 but might be a little slow. I figured I would try it out because I have a lot of it. If you are happy with 2250 fps and a near compressed load then it will be great. You will probably not be able to fit enough powder in it to reach pressure issues. I decided to try CFE223 due to varget's lack of speed.

***listed loads are what worked in my rifle and are no way guaranteed to be safe in another rifle***

First reload target below, this was before bedding the stock. Some of the groups actually contain different powder charges, I was mainly looking for pressure signs and I had issues with light strikes (will be discussed below). Only varget this trip. Started at 66gr (2105fps) and went to 70.5gr(2240fps) which was a little compressed with an OAL of 3.340. The Cup points are a little shorter and less compressed. No pressure signs. I think there is a little more meat on the bone if you seat the bullet out farther. I believe the average for all groups was about 1.65" at 100yds. During this trip the cup point solids were very close to one another. Bottom left group was cup point solids with 6 different charges. Hard to tell but one of those holes is 2 shots.

 

[Beck]

The suppressor makes zero sense to me, just makes the gun too long/unwieldy

 

[EjectorSwipe]

Light strikes:

During the first trip I had problems with light strikes. Like one out of every five rounds would go off light strikes. Not something I have dealt with in centerfire cartridges. I assumed at this point that it had something to do with the timney trigger and sear dragging. I still think this is the case because it got better after I switched the sear to the one from my 300wm that I had at the range with me, but it is not the whole story.

I use the same CCI 250 in my 300wm and have never had any issues with it. However, I had switched the spring out for a WOLFF 24lb spring. When I got home from the range I ordered a new spring and worked the timney for appropriate clearance for the sear. The firing pin protrusion measured ~0.054" so appears to be in spec.

Reloads #2:

reload changes from prior trip CFE 223 and a new lot of CCI250. I also put the expander ball back in the sizing die. I hate using them in bushing dies for target shooting. Crimp was increased and the OAL of the semi spitzers was increased to ~3.380" and 3.390" for the cup point solids.

I had been using xxlreloading.com(its ok, sometimes buggy) for some load data due to not much being available for my components. It was spot on FPS for varget but that was using a norma solid as reference.

xxlreloading told me to expect up to 2310fps with a max load of 78.7gr. I decided to load from 76gr to 78.5 because it had been so accurate with varget. The North fork bullets all ship with a piece of paper saying that most people get factory speeds with 3-4% less powder. Seemed like BS with the varget but it was on par with what was predicted.

***the load workup described below is in no way being recommended***

Started with 76gr of CFE 223 over the chronograph and got 2335fps. Wow, was not expecting that. No pressure signs. This was with new brass. Worked up to 77.2gr and 2378fps where I got a little bit of a hard bolt lift. All the rest of the new brass charges would be over pressure so I switched to the fire formed brass assuming it would have higher case volume and lower pressure.

77.5gr CFE223 in fireformed brass gave me 2402fps, 2383fps, and a light strike DAMN. No pressure signs
77.5gr CFE223 in fireformed brass gave me 2413fps, 2413fps, and 2409 fps and a small group. small amount of primer cratering, no hard lift.

Light Strike round 2:

I only had one light strike this trip vs the many from last trip. This was with the new 24lb spring. I decided to compare the rounds that did not fire. Apparently in the seating or crimping process I crushed the shoulder on some of the rounds and they were all excessive. I check every rounds headspace after sizing but not after seating. I generally shoot boat tail bullet that seat with little pressure. I have had this happen with a 6x47 remington shooting flat base bullets if you have too much neck tension, however, this is obvious becuase it expands the case at the shoulder and it will not chamber. I am hoping that by realizing this, I have fixed my issues and prevent someone else from having this problem.

 

[EjectorSwipe]

The suppressor makes zero sense to me, just makes the gun too long/unwieldy

To each their own, you can take it off. Its more fun to shoot and you can easily see the open sights over it. Plus my ears ring enough. I don't know how PHs hear anything after a few years of hunting.