Rifle Lessons Learned from the Zimbabwe Professional Hunter Proficiency Exam

Discussion in 'Firearms & Ammunition' started by AfricaHunting.com, Mar 30, 2010.

  1. crudeoildude

    crudeoildude AH Enthusiast

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  2. Hearties

    Hearties AH Veteran

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    Not sure where you heard this but it is definitely not the case. I’m just finishing up 2 batches for my upcoming Karoo hunt - in 30-06 and 243...
     
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  3. Hunting Sailor

    Hunting Sailor SILVER SUPPORTER AH Enthusiast

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    I’m pretty sure I’ve heard that a PH may not supply a client with non-factory ammo for Dangerous Game as a loaner or renter.
    However, I’m 0 for 3, I don’t handload, I don’t have a DG rifle and I’m not a PH, but that may be where the earlier post came from.

    Enjoy the Karoo hunt.

    //Gus
     
    larrich and Hearties like this.

  4. IvW

    IvW AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    Hogwash.

    I reload for all my rifles in South Africa-from 222 Rem all the way through to 500 Jeff. Many clients have used my rifles and ammo to hunt with including DG.
     

  5. ZG47

    ZG47 AH Enthusiast

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    @Eric Anderson I was, with all due respect, referring to reliability of feed and extraction; in a close-range shooting situation. The search for small groups at ranges of 100m or more, is a different matter, the most ridiculous example I have seen, being a guy in our club who brings his Voere 2165 hunting rifle to shooting competitions that I have developed with a hunting emphasis and then proceeds to single-load for each shot. Different focus, different rules.
     

  6. Hunting Sailor

    Hunting Sailor SILVER SUPPORTER AH Enthusiast

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    There you go, thanks for clearing that up @IvW in regards to clients using the handloaded ammo.

    //Gus
     

  7. bpcr

    bpcr AH Senior Member

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    I appreciate you clearing that up for me. Sorry for the misinformation. Good to know that you can reload in South Africa.
     

  8. bpcr

    bpcr AH Senior Member

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    We need this same test in the United States because I can attest that there is some expensive junk out here calling itself a dangerous game rifle that would never come close to passing that Zimbabwe rifle test. I think more field testing would be in order for all US gun manufacturers. Before we spend our money on your firearms you need to put your money into more field research and show the results.
     

  9. Odinsraven

    Odinsraven AH Fanatic

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    To be honest few on this forum with the exception of Doctari .....have the experience Don has .........so sometimes you have to accept what he says is true ......from reading his report I can feel his frustrations coming through ...Certianly in my experiences of the last 15 years and working with professional gunsmiths most of the USA manufactured rifles are problems in a cardboard box ....... certainly the quality of receivers being manufactured of late by remmington speak volumes ........

    I do safety officer on a local range from time to time and where I could not hold a candle to Don ..... most of the things he comments on I have seen. And taking a push feed on a DG hunt ....well evolution in action Mr Darwin would observe .......
     
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  10. Eric Anderson

    Eric Anderson AH Enthusiast

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    We have a LOT more options in the United States. Serious R&D hasn’t been put into bolt actions or single shots in generations in the United States. You know what people carry for grizzlies in Alaska? For every rifle, there are probably 2 big bore revolvers, and 3 or 4 12 gauge pumps.
    We really do not use rifles for danger close in the United States. That engagement envelope is filled by other firearms. Rifles tend to be used for much longer ranges, and rifle and cartridge design has followed that.

    Since shots are almost always taken under 100 yards on dangerous game in Africa, particularly by PH’s to protect a client, why use a rifle at all?
    Why not use a smoothbore and use the saved machine time to build a better receiver?
     

  11. Tokoloshe Safaris

    Tokoloshe Safaris SPONSOR Since 2017 AH Fanatic

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    I can only speak for Zimbabwe, on reloaded ammo there are no restriction on clients with reloaded ammunition. I do believe that according to airlines rules, only factory ammunition in there original boxes, in a locked container weighing less the 5kg are allowed. Do hunters bring there reloads on airlines you bet they do! The cost of a reloading license is prohibitive for all but "clubs", personally I do not shoot reloaded ammo and I have my own personal feeling concerning same based on past experience, but those are my PERSONAL feelings, not to be shared.

    In Zimbabwe we have very restrictive laws on ammunition and firearms, we are not allowed to supply or receive ammunition that is not recorded on our firearm licenses. Do PHs get all teary eyed when they see you leaving Zim. with your left over ammo that happens to be the same calibre that they use, yep! Again things happen! We are also not allowed to let someone other than the owner to use our firearms, but things happen! A little example one of our neighbours, old and elderly. The wife owned a .410 shotgun. The husband shot a goat that was repeatedly raiding his garden. Both were arrested on multiple charges, mainly he used a firearm without a license and she for losing control of her firearm! I would like to say that it had a happy ending, but it did not. This was during the Mugabe regime, but the laws have not changed.

    I cannot speak for any other African country.
     

  12. mark-hunter

    mark-hunter AH Elite

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    Dear Lon, does that also mean that client can not rent a rifle for hunting, from registered outfitter in Zim?
     

  13. Tokoloshe Safaris

    Tokoloshe Safaris SPONSOR Since 2017 AH Fanatic

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    It takes place on a regular basis in most companies. I will see if I can get a expert opinion. You must be in possession of a TR2 to be in possesion of a firearm while a hunt is being conducted
     

  14. Tokoloshe Safaris

    Tokoloshe Safaris SPONSOR Since 2017 AH Fanatic

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    I thought I had the correct answer about renting or borrowing a rifle either from a licensed PH or owned by a Safari Company. The PH or Safari operator that actually owns the rifle must be present while the rifle is being used by the client hunter.
    As to leaving ammo behind for the "poor" PH. It is "almost" a tradition, after all what is that little bit going to hurt? Ammunition can only be transferred to a firearms license from a bona fide dealer and entered onto the back of the license. But, what happens in the bush stays in the bush, will maybe, ha!

    I hope this helps, remember this info is for Zimbabwe only! Enjoy!
     

  15. IvW

    IvW AH ENABLER AH Legend

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  16. Eric Anderson

    Eric Anderson AH Enthusiast

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    Seems like these guys need a specialized weapon to do one thing. Stop a charge. Cost is an issue. So build a weapon that does this one thing exceptionally well.

    Rifleing adds cost, recoil, and reduces velocity in order to stabilize a projectile. For most hunting longuns the ability to shoot well past 80 yards is worth it.
    Unless I am grossly mistaken charges are stopped at 20 yards, not 80.
     

  17. Tokoloshe Safaris

    Tokoloshe Safaris SPONSOR Since 2017 AH Fanatic

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  18. Tokoloshe Safaris

    Tokoloshe Safaris SPONSOR Since 2017 AH Fanatic

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    I think the weapon that your referring to as the perfect PH weapon is a bolt action shotgun with a slug? I do not know if Mossberg still makes those or not. Of course then there is the cost of the action job!
     

  19. Eric Anderson

    Eric Anderson AH Enthusiast

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    I do not think anyone makes a 12 gauge loading appropriate for the task. That doesn’t mean they can’t. Shotgun loadings use really fast powder. That allows a shotgun to use a relatively thin barrel. You put a barrel with more meat forward, you might be able to use a slower powder. You would have to use all brass shells, like some of the first cartridge shotguns. A solid copper or a copper jacketed steel projectile would give you better sectional density than current lead slug designs. Slower powder will also give you a lot more wiggle room on slug design.
    Such a design also alleviates another issue the original author brought up, fumbling with reloads trying to single load from the top. A magazine fed weapon could simply allow a mag to be dropped, and a fresh one inserted. Magazine retention should not be an issue. If a clients life is one the line, let it fall to the ground and sacrifice it.
     

  20. Tokoloshe Safaris

    Tokoloshe Safaris SPONSOR Since 2017 AH Fanatic

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    This is just to bizarre for me& I have that long flight to catch tomorrow & 3 weeks out of the Bush is just to long.
     

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