Remington 700 Dangerous game build?

xausa

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I can only speak from my own experience. I was in a situation with a rhino where I was the one backing up my PH. I was able to turn the charging rhino and put two more shots into his vital area as fast as I was able to work the action and pull the trigger. The rhino we were tracking had circled around and gotten behind us in order to be able to charge down hill. He was no more than 25 yards away when the first shot hit him. I did this with a rifle built on a P-14 Enfield action, using a cartridge of my own design, which duplicated the performance of a .500 NE in a bolt gun. It was not an expensive custom rifle, but one which cost under $1000, but it was one which was totally reliable and built on an action which had proven itself in the mud of Flanders field in World War I. I don't know what its capabilities at 1000 yards are and I don't care. What I cared about was the ability to deliver lethal blows to a very large animal at close range. My PH fired two shots from his .470 NE double rifle, as the rhino was departing the scene, one of which grazed his horn and the other hit him in the hip and keyholed, with virtually no penetration. Neither shot made the slightest contribution to his ultimate demise. I would not recommend trying to kill a rhino at 1000 yards with a .308.

CCE00000 (2).jpg

9.3X64 004 (4).jpg
 
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xausa

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Younger readers may question my choice of actions and calibers. Keep in mind, this rifle was built at a time when ammunition for the classic British big game calibers was virtually unobtainable and was no longer being manufactured. My cartridge bears a resemblance to the .500 Jeffery, and today the .500 Jeffrey would be a better choice for such a build. However, ammunition and Boxer primed brass were unavailable for this caliber and most other "African" calibers, whereas brass for the .378 Weatherby case (the parent case for my cartridge) was available. I chose to reduce the length of the case to 2.500" to make it easily compatible with the Enfield action. I had intended to duplicate the ballistics of the .505 Gibbs, but when I discovered that the 535 grain bullets for that cartridge were not available, I chose to switch to the 570 grain bullets for the .500 Nitro Express, which I swaged down from .510" to .505" to match the bore of my rifle. I had no difficulty creating a load which matched the .500NE's ballistics, and was content with that accomplishment.

The P-14 Enfield action is a modified Mauser action, and after World War II, when commercial Mauser actions were no longer available, several British gun makers chose to modify it and use it in place of the Magnum Mauser action. My only objection to it was the cock on closing cocking mechanism, which was easily modified to cock on opening by addition of a Dayton Traister trigger set. Alteration of the bolt handle to a more pleasing shape was more cosmetic than practical, but I was happy with the result. I was under the impression that the magazine held only two cartridges, but after this encounter, my gun bearer found a way to load three into the magazine, which came in handy on later hunts. The rifle itself weighed 8 3/4 pounds, which made it easy for me to carry, since it coincided almost exactly with the weight of the M1 Garand rifle I carried in the Marine Corps.

The stock, which fits me perfectly and is designed with snap shooting in mind, was the product of the Reinhart Fajen Custom Shop, which, sadly, no longer exists.

Finally, in case anyone is interested in the size of the trophy, I offer this certificate:
Rowland Ward 001.jpg
 
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Philip Glass

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There is a photo on page 72 of Kevin Robertson's book on hunting cape buffalo that says volumes about the Remington 700 action.
He hates it.
 

HuntingGold

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I have 3 safes full of Remington 700s and their clones. In the safes I have 3 CRF rifles of three manufacturer (2 of which where custom builds). I've had more problems with the 3 CRF rifles than the 3 safe full of 700s combined. Perhaps I'm just a lucky son of a bitch.
 

IvW

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How many of these 700's are dedicated DG rifles and hiw often are they used for the purpose? Calibers?
 

flatwater bill

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In one of the videos embedded near the beginning of this thread, the star of the show fails to mention the REAL virtue of the CRF, then loads it incorrectly. Difficult to feel confident in such an expert. If I am not hunting DG, I use push feeds. I like the huge loading port. Mulies rarely attack me. (although I was bitten by a racoon once). But WAB is exactly right. Why build something expensive that has little resale value? I have been reading gun mags for over 60 years. This argument will never die. CRF vs PF. Although I enjoy the discussion., no one's opinion is ever swayed. We will argue this until LvW buys a push feed 458 Win, and Bob buys a 243. .................good shooting....................FWB
 

HuntingGold

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Sir,
The short answer is zero. 700 Calibers mostly of 308 or 30-06 based (270, 280AI, 30-06, 35 Whelen, 308, 260 Rem). CRF of 375 H&H, 308, and 270.

A longer answer. As a dumb cop for 23 years (18 as Game warden), one of the things that I have learned is that familiarity greatly assists in success. How you are trained can also lead to success, or failure.

In the 70's and early 80's some of our local cops were required to save their handgun brass while training. Because cleaning up the range after hundreds/ cumulative thousands of rounds can be awful work, most cops developed habits of immediately picking brass after a volley of fire. This nearly bit a guy in the ass when he got himself in a big time gun fight. During the ensuing investigation, it was found the cop had a pocketful of brass. He had instinctively paused his fire to collect brass! After that, the agency banned the collection of brass until all training was done for the day.

One of my own experiences; early in my career we were issued shotguns as a secondary weapons. A shotgun with slugs is a very formidable weapon but our younger generation couldn't handle the recoil. Finally, some of our Gulf War vets convinced the brass to get modern and go to an AR-15 type rifle. Years after making the switch from shotgun to AR-15 rifle I found myself on the rifle range and going through some stressful training scenarios in which the student (me) needed to manipulate the rifle while sirens were blaring, lights flashing, and an instructor screaming in my ear. This scenario, like many others was designed to induce high levels of stress and on this occasion it worked! While attempting to take out the cardboard bad guys, my hands were searching for buttons and switches on this weapon that did not exist and ultimately resulted in dumping the rifle magazine out onto the ground during this fake fire fight. I pulled another magazine from a pouch and finished the fight, however in real life it could have been a fatal error.

Now while in the hell am I talking about all this? If the original poster is a 700 nut, as am I, he would be much better served carrying a rifle that he was ever so intimately familiar with than buying a CRF to please this audience. If he has never shot a rifle before or his home rifle battery is made up of CRF rifles then I highly suggest he take that road.

As mentioned previously, my home battery is made up mostly of 700 rifles. Last year I caved to the BS and bought 2 CRF rifles, one in .375 H&H. I've been shooting and training with these guns and after the cumulative troubles with these and the prior CRF, I really wish I had stuck with a 700 platform.

For me, a person who has shot hundreds of thousands of rounds in practice, training, and hunting over the last 40 years, my suggestion is to buy and use a rifle that you are familiar with. Further, take the time and spend the money to train and shoot that weapon to the level of intimate familiarity.

With that said, all the best to the OP in his decision.

Randy
 

Rell

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You’ll get half out of it that you put in it when you realize you have a gold plated turd of a rifle.

Might as well use a Weatherby mark 5, at least they are robust enough for the job.
 

IvW

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We will argue this until LvW buys a push feed 458 Win,
I can assure you that will never ever happen again especially on a 700 Rem platform......and as for a 458 Win that will never happen never mind the platform.....
 

IvW

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I have 3 safes full of Remington 700s and their clones. In the safes I have 3 CRF rifles of three manufacturer (2 of which where custom builds). I've had more problems with the 3 CRF rifles than the 3 safe full of 700s combined. Perhaps I'm just a lucky son of a bitch.
Not all crf rifles are the answer so which ones you have and which rem 700 dg you have? Used how often on what?
 

HuntingGold

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I thought I had answered in the first paragraph of my previous post

Not interested in a pissing match as you've drawn your line in the sand as I have drawn mine. I've read many of your posts on the 700 and I'm not asking you to change your mind!

If I were to break away from my 700 and own a dedicated DG rifle, it would be a double. I dont think I'll be doing much DG hunting in the future. No interest at all in elephants. Maybe a buff or 2 before I go. Before that happens, I have my eye on some sheep species.

It's a beautiful day, I'm headed out to train dogs or shoot...
 

IvW

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Also not interested in a pissing match with somebody which has 0 experience with a 700 in DG caliber....which is the whole point of the original post....
A 700 may be a great accurate snipers rifle but it one of the worst platforms for hunting DG irrespective if you have 3 or 5 safes full of them....
Enjoy the dog training and shootng....
 
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IvW

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So why do I say it is a piece of crap for a DG rifle....
My first and last Rem DG rifle was a model 700 classic in 375 H&H....
1. Too light for caliber by a long margin
2. Sh*t front sight
3. Sh*t rear sight
4. Sh*t bolt knob flat and checkered
5. Worse extractor on any rifle
6. Cannot eject a live unfired round in big DG calibers
7. Not a true magnum length action
8. Sh*t safety
9. Sh*t mag capacity in DG calibers
10. One of the worst actions to load from the top
11. More than 2000 complaints and 150 lawsuites due to a sh*t trigger and ad's
12. Push feed

.....overall score especially in DG caliber....sh*t.......
 

Bob Nelson 35Whelen

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Younger readers may question my choice of actions and calibers. Keep in mind, this rifle was built at a time when ammunition for the classic British big game calibers was virtually unobtainable and was no longer being manufactured. My cartridge bears a resemblance to the .500 Jeffery, and today the .500 Jeffrey would be a better choice for such a build. However, ammunition and Boxer primed brass were unavailable for this caliber and most other "African" calibers, whereas brass for the .378 Weatherby case (the parent case for my cartridge) was available. I chose to reduce the length of the case to 2.500" to make it easily compatible with the Enfield action. I had intended to duplicate the ballistics of the .505 Gibbs, but when I discovered that the 535 grain bullets for that cartridge were not available, I chose to switch to the 570 grain bullets for the .500 Nitro Express, which I swaged down from .510" to .505" to match the bore of my rifle. I had no difficulty creating a load which matched the .500NE's ballistics, and was content with that accomplishment.

The P-14 Enfield action is a modified Mauser action, and after World War II, when commercial Mauser actions were no longer available, several British gun makers chose to modify it and use it in place of the Magnum Mauser action. My only objection to it was the cock on closing cocking mechanism, which was easily modified to cock on opening by addition of a Dayton Traister trigger set. Alteration of the bolt handle to a more pleasing shape was more cosmetic than practical, but I was happy with the result. I was under the impression that the magazine held only two cartridges, but after this encounter, my gun bearer found a way to load three into the magazine, which came in handy on later hunts. The rifle itself weighed 8 3/4 pounds, which made it easy for me to carry, since it coincided almost exactly with the weight of the M1 Garand rifle I carried in the Marine Corps.

The stock, which fits me perfectly and is designed with snap shooting in mind, was the product of the Reinhart Fajen Custom Shop, which, sadly, no longer exists.

Finally, in case anyone is interested in the size of the trophy, I offer this certificate:
View attachment 448393
@xausa
The old P14 and M17 are built like a brick shithouse, strong and slick in operation. I personally feel the cock on closing mod slows the speed of operation.
They are as ugly as a hat full of cats backsides bat can be made into nice looking shooters. H@H used them on 375H&H, Art Alpin used them for his big magnums and the average person can have a nice rifle made for a reasonable price.

As has been pointed out tho if the OP wishes to make a rifle on a Rem 700 there's no reason he shouldn't. It's about what makes you happy.
Bob
 

Bob Nelson 35Whelen

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Sir,
The short answer is zero. 700 Calibers mostly of 308 or 30-06 based (270, 280AI, 30-06, 35 Whelen, 308, 260 Rem). CRF of 375 H&H, 308, and 270.

A longer answer. As a dumb cop for 23 years (18 as Game warden), one of the things that I have learned is that familiarity greatly assists in success. How you are trained can also lead to success, or failure.

In the 70's and early 80's some of our local cops were required to save their handgun brass while training. Because cleaning up the range after hundreds/ cumulative thousands of rounds can be awful work, most cops developed habits of immediately picking brass after a volley of fire. This nearly bit a guy in the ass when he got himself in a big time gun fight. During the ensuing investigation, it was found the cop had a pocketful of brass. He had instinctively paused his fire to collect brass! After that, the agency banned the collection of brass until all training was done for the day.

One of my own experiences; early in my career we were issued shotguns as a secondary weapons. A shotgun with slugs is a very formidable weapon but our younger generation couldn't handle the recoil. Finally, some of our Gulf War vets convinced the brass to get modern and go to an AR-15 type rifle. Years after making the switch from shotgun to AR-15 rifle I found myself on the rifle range and going through some stressful training scenarios in which the student (me) needed to manipulate the rifle while sirens were blaring, lights flashing, and an instructor screaming in my ear. This scenario, like many others was designed to induce high levels of stress and on this occasion it worked! While attempting to take out the cardboard bad guys, my hands were searching for buttons and switches on this weapon that did not exist and ultimately resulted in dumping the rifle magazine out onto the ground during this fake fire fight. I pulled another magazine from a pouch and finished the fight, however in real life it could have been a fatal error.

Now while in the hell am I talking about all this? If the original poster is a 700 nut, as am I, he would be much better served carrying a rifle that he was ever so intimately familiar with than buying a CRF to please this audience. If he has never shot a rifle before or his home rifle battery is made up of CRF rifles then I highly suggest he take that road.

As mentioned previously, my home battery is made up mostly of 700 rifles. Last year I caved to the BS and bought 2 CRF rifles, one in .375 H&H. I've been shooting and training with these guns and after the cumulative troubles with these and the prior CRF, I really wish I had stuck with a 700 platform.

For me, a person who has shot hundreds of thousands of rounds in practice, training, and hunting over the last 40 years, my suggestion is to buy and use a rifle that you are familiar with. Further, take the time and spend the money to train and shoot that weapon to the level of intimate familiarity.

With that said, all the best to the OP in his decision.

Randy
@hunting Gold
You have a lot of very valid points mate. I practice a fair bit with my crf and push feed. My crf are cock on closing. After a bit of practice the brain or what's left of it automatically registers what rifle I have and adapts to it.
As you said it's called practice, practice and then more practice.
Bob
 

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Just had a yarn with A G, and he has filled me in on how much work he puts in to such developments, referencing QuikLoad, tightening tolerances, load development, range testing. He indicated that of you wish to contact him directly he can go into details far better than I.
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