Reloads in .416 Rigby with used brass will not feed in my Mauser 98E

[Sjakon]

Hi guys. I have reloaded new cartridges to change the projectiles for my .416 Rigby and they fed with no problem in my Mauser 98E rifle. When I used fired brass the cartridges were not picked up by the bolt and jamed. Not a problem with factory ammunition or new brass. Any thoughts on why this happens? I was advised to file down the ramp but I don't want to mess up my rifle. Thank you for any advice.

 

[Azklmsr]

Hi guys. I have reloaded new cartridges to change the projectiles for my .416 Rigby and they fed with no problem in my Mauser 98E rifle. When I used fired brass the cartridges were not picked up by the bolt and jamed. Not a problem with factory ammunition or new brass. Any thoughts on why this happens? I was advised to file down the ramp but I don't want to mess up my rifle. Thank you for any advice.

DO NOT FILE ON YOUR GUN

Sorry for the caps! lol

If Factory ammo feeds, its not the gun. Next, your loads with new brass are working, correct? Fired brass that has been re-sized is your problem? So, you need to inspect the differences. If the bolt is missing the pick-up, there is likely a difference in the shoulder, which is causing a difference in the cartridge base orientation.

Do all the dimensional comparisons you can, but if need be, smoke a piece of new brass and run it into your die and see where it IS NOT making contact. Then do the same with a piece of fired brass.
Look particularly at shoulder set back from Factory, to new brass to fired to resized.

You will find this.

 

[Azklmsr]

OH, 1 other item. Measure the expansion on the base with new and fired cases and then with the resized case. If head expansion is not fully sized back, and it often is not, the case base can be missed by the bolt and it will jam up on the expansion

 

[uplander01]

Agreed on Don't file anything on your rifle,...this is a brass issue.

Am I understanding you that the bolt face is not picking up the rim when moving the bolt forward to feed?

Want to make sure I understand the problem correctly. You need to look at and measure the rim of the cases to start with and look at the angles. for example, I have had CRF rifles that handle Hornady and Norma brass quite differently because of the rim and the chamfer on the back of it. What brands of brass are we dealing with?

 

[deewayne2003]

What brand of brass, dies and factory ammo?

Are you full length sizing?

I suspect it’s a sizing issue that is throwing off the geometry of the cases when loaded into the magazine.

 

[Grumpy gumpy]

I agree that it is a brass issue, but I would also be concerned with why it’s occurring. First find out where the problem is with the brass then look at why, if you need to constantly squeeze the base/head back down you will work the brass and it will harden which can cause problems, short case life etc, is the chamber sloppy causing this, is the shoulder position not quite right, etc..
But as others said find out where the issue is with the brass first
Gumpy

 

[318AE]

Try a different set of full length resizing dies and make sure your a sizing all the way down.

 

[Sjakon]

Thank you Azklmsr. That is most useful information. I will check my dies. I am going on an elephant hunt in Namibia. I will use new Norma Solids. I like practicing with reloads though due to cost and difficulty buying ammunition in Australia.

Agreed on Don't file anything on your rifle,...this is a brass issue.

Am I understanding you that the bolt face is not picking up the rim when moving the bolt forward to feed?

Want to make sure I understand the problem correctly. You need to look at and measure the rim of the cases to start with and look at the angles. for example, I have had CRF rifles that handle Hornady and Norma brass quite differently because of the rim and the chamfer on the back of it. What brands of brass are we dealing with?

I was using fired Barnes brass. This was the first time I had reloaded fired cartridges. I will do all the measurements suggested. Thank you!

 

[Sjakon]

Try a different set of full length resizing dies and make sure your a sizing all the way down.

Yes I am not certain if the cases were resized all the way down. I am not experienced in reloading. I got into it because .416 Rigby are next to impossible to buy of the shelf in Australia.

 

[Sjakon]

Agreed on Don't file anything on your rifle,...this is a brass issue.

Am I understanding you that the bolt face is not picking up the rim when moving the bolt forward to feed?

Want to make sure I understand the problem correctly. You need to look at and measure the rim of the cases to start with and look at the angles. for example, I have had CRF rifles that handle Hornady and Norma brass quite differently because of the rim and the chamfer on the back of it. What brands of brass are we dealing with?

I will do all the measurements suggested. Thank you!

 

[cajunchefray]

Try a different set of full length resizing dies and make sure your a sizing all the way down.

Try Redding dies. I switched to Redding after I had problems with Lyman dies, never looked back.
I use a LE Wilson case gauge to ascertain the resized case are within SAAMI specs. Reassuringly, Wilson gauges are a great tool to help fine tune the die adjustments for proper resizing, without setting back the shoulder.

 

[Sjakon]

Gentlemen, Thank you very much for all your help! Best advice and guidance I received!

 

[Sjakon]

Try Redding dies. I switched to Redding after I had problems with Lyman dies, never looked back.
I use a LE Wilson case gauge to ascertain the resized case are within SAAMI specs. Reassuringly, Wilson gauges are a great tool to help fine tune the die adjustments for proper resizing, without setting back the shoulder.

Will do. Thank you!

 

[uplander01]

Here is a very specific problem I had with a really nice mauser 98 375HH I have. The bolt face on the ride side would not pick up the rim of the shell every time, only on the right side of the staggered magazine, It drove me mad , quit using the rifle, which was a shame because its a beauty. I took the barreled action out of the stock and flipped it upside down and started looking at the underside of the action rails. When the builder opened up the action on the aforementioned right side he didn't go all the way up and even to the original rail causing the rim of the case to set down further on the right than the left,....allowing the bolt face to slide over the rim and catch on the body of the brass. I sent it to a guy with propper tools and he gained 30-35 thous -problem solved, works like a dream. you have to look at everything when this weird shit starts happening.

 

[cajunchefray]

Try Redding dies. I switched to Redding after I had problems with Lyman dies, never looked back.
I use a LE Wilson case gauge to ascertain the resized case are within SAAMI specs. Reassuringly, Wilson gauges are a great tool to help fine tune the die adjustments for proper resizing, without setting back the shoulder.

I checked and LE Wilson DOES NOT have the case gauge; I bought mine 23 years ago probably a special order.
Since you are new to reloading, get with a competent local gunsmith to help with die adjustments. Tolerances are small for the dimensions (.001 to .002) (base diameter, base to shoulder length, shoulder diameter, neck diameter).
Use the same brand of shell holder as the full length die set.

Follow the detailed information in good reloading manuals, like the Lyman #51 Reloading manual, Hornady, or Speer. Study these carefully.
Get a good caliper and micrometer.
A caliper measures length, micrometer to measure diameter of cases, bullets.

Proper case lubrication is essential with a large case of the .416 Rigby. You are working with a lot more metal surface than say, a .308.
Without proper lubrication, but NOT TOO much, the cases can become deformed, only a few thousandths but enough to deform from specification.
Imperial Sizing Die Wax is your friend, other options may be available in OZ, check with your fellow Aussies. Several posts here and can help.

Once dies are set exactly to your rifle chamber, it's easy.
Hope this is helpful.

Now we need picture of your M98 .416 Rigby!

 

[Sjakon]

I checked and LE Wilson DOES NOT have the case gauge; I bought mine 23 years ago probably a special order.
Since you are new to reloading, get with a competent local gunsmith to help with die adjustments. Tolerances are small for the dimensions (.001 to .002) (base diameter, base to shoulder length, shoulder diameter, neck diameter).
Use the same brand of shell holder as the full length die set.

Follow the detailed information in good reloading manuals, like the Lyman #51 Reloading manual, Hornady, or Speer. Study these carefully.
Get a good caliper and micrometer.
A caliper measures length, micrometer to measure diameter of cases, bullets.

Proper case lubrication is essential with a large case of the .416 Rigby. You are working with a lot more metal surface than say, a .308.
Without proper lubrication, but NOT TOO much, the cases can become deformed, only a few thousandths but enough to deform from specification.
Imperial Sizing Die Wax is your friend, other options may be available in OZ, check with your fellow Aussies. Several posts here and can help.

Once dies are set exactly to your rifle chamber, it's easy.
Hope this is helpful.

Now we need picture of your M98 .416 Rigby!

 

[One Day...]

DO NOT FILE ON YOUR GUN

Sorry for the caps! lol

Heck, I would even had it bold and underlined

 

[One Day...]

And in any case, it would not be the ramp (ahead of the magazine) but the rails (on each side of the top of the magazine)...

The underlining factor, Sjakon is that in order to ensure that the rifle will still chamber in the field possibly dirty / dusty rounds in a possibly dirty chamber with powder burning residues, quite often hunting rifle makers cut the chamber (especially DG rifles chamber) just a bit wider and just a bit deeper than a "match" chamber would be cut to exacting SAAMI specifications. As a result, fired cases expand and can be significantly wider and longer than SAAMI specifications, and their shoulder may move significantly forward, all of which can change the feeding geometry, although the most common issue is the difficulty to fully chamber and close the bolt on a reloaded round that is not fully resized.

Does the bolt close as easily on your reloads as it closes on factory ammo? You can check this easily by manually helping a cartridge get under the claw extractor to carry it into the chamber.

I once had the opposite issue. The chamber on a custom Dumoulin .338 Win was so tight that the bolt would not close on Federal Premium factory cartridges, although it closed without effort on other factory ammo. It seems that just the nickel plating of the cases was enough to "oversize" the cartridges for that chamber. Running lightly a brand-new finishing reamer in the chamber solved the issue.

It does not take much to alter the feeding geometry of a double stack Mauser magazine, and if yours happens to be tuned up to very exacting tolerances, it does not leave much room for cartridge case tolerances...

This being said, uplander01's input is also far from irrelevant. Even the nicest rifles from the most prestigious makers sometimes suffer a QC failure. It would be highly surprising from a modern M98, but it is a classic issue on CZ 550's were a simple small machining bur in the wrong place under a rail can wreak havoc on the feeding. Taking a look at the underside of the rails does not hurt, but the advice is worth repeating, do not take a file to the rails if you do not know very exactly what you are doing: too much material removed cannot be put back... Have Mauser fix it if you find or suspect anything: a tiny Poisson bur (material displaced rather than cut, and therefore bulging) may have been undetected in function testing with factory brass but may reveal itself with reloads.

 

[Sjakon]

And in any case, it would not be the ramp (ahead of the magazine) but the rails (on each side of the top of the magazine)...

The underlining factor, Sjakon is that in order to ensure that the rifle will still chamber in the field possibly dirty / dusty rounds in a possibly dirty chamber with powder burning residues, quite often hunting rifle makers cut the chamber (especially DG rifles chamber) just a bit wider and just a bit deeper than a "match" chamber would be cut to exacting SAAMI specifications. As a result, fired cases expand and can be significantly wider and longer than SAAMI specifications, and their shoulder may move significantly forward, all of which can change the feeding geometry, although the most common issue is the difficulty to fully chamber and close the bolt on a reloaded round that is not fully resized.

Does the bolt close as easily on your reloads as it closes on factory ammo? You can check this easily by manually helping a cartridge get under the claw extractor to carry it into the chamber.

I once had the opposite issue. The chamber on a custom Dumoulin .338 Win was so tight that the bolt would not close on Federal Premium factory cartridges, although it closed without effort on other factory ammo. It seems that just the nickel plating of the cases was enough to "oversize" the cartridges for that chamber. Running lightly a brand-new finishing reamer in the chamber solved the issue.

It does not take much to alter the feeding geometry of a double stack Mauser magazine, and if yours happens to be tuned up to very exacting tolerances, it does not leave much room for cartridge case tolerances...

This being said, uplander01's input is also far from irrelevant. Even the nicest rifles from the most prestigious makers sometimes suffer a QC failure. It would be highly surprising from a modern M98, but it is a classic issue on CZ 550's were a simple small machining bur in the wrong place under a rail can wreak havoc on the feeding. Taking a look at the underside of the rails does not hurt, but the advice is worth repeating, do not take a file to the rails if you do not know very exactly what you are doing: too much material removed cannot be put back... Have Mauser fix it if you find or suspect anything: a tiny Poisson bur (material displaced rather than cut, and therefore bulging) may have been undetected in function testing with factory brass but may reveal itself with reloads.

One Day,
Thank you for the very clear explanation.
I will take a close look at the reloaded fired brass and also the differences in dimensions compared with unfired brass. I like your profile photo. I will be going to the Caprivi early June to hunt Elephant. I am taking factory loaded Norma FMJs

Best wishes,

Sjakon