Religions, Evolution and related Sciences

[Safari Dave]

My 16 year year old brain could not comprehend the simpleness of salvation.

My 17 year old brain could not comprehend it either, until an old Navy WWII preacher whispered to me, "tell God that if you die, you absolutely believe that you will go to Heaven"

That made all the difference.


All anyone has to do, is to choose to believe that Jesus is the son of God, he died on a cross as a sacrifice for all of our sins, and if we choose to believe that and pray, that's all. Nothing else.

Period.

Just faith.

Our faith should make us want to go to church, be around other believers, do good deeds, etc...

But, if it doesn't, just believing 100% is all that it takes.


Saint Peter might have to wrap us in a fire blanket and hose us down, but blind faith is all anyone needs.

I wanted to make it more complicated for many years, but after the old WWII vet preacher told me what he did, I've never felt "burdened" any longer.

Just confess and believe with all you have.

Baptism, if you feel so inclined. (might as well, to demonstrate your commitment to others) Oddly, most Baptists do not think this is necessary.

The man on the cross next to Jesus, didn't do anything other than believe he was the son of God and Jesus told him that they would be together in Paradise. No baptism, no prayer, no good deeds, no Bible reading, no Sunday school, no listening to sermons, no tithes, just faith.

 

[tarbe]

The gospel is foolishness to them that are perishing.

Not my words.

Jesus said to enter the kingdom of God you must be born from above.

Taken together, only true Jews (Romans 2) whose hearts are changed by God, can believe unto salvation.

Otherwise, the gospel is foolishness to you.

So if you truly believe the gospel, it is because you have been blessed with the new birth.

Jesus said no one comes to the Father, but through Him…and no one comes to to Him except the Father who sent Him, draws them.

Study the use in the NT of the Greek word poorly translated “draw”. You will see it means to drag, to lay hold of with force, compel.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

I won't speak for anyone else, but I read my Bible almost every morning and attend church with my wife almost every Sunday (either in person or the online broadcast) led by a pastor whose theology is very Biblically sound. In short, much like Paul, I am not entirely without Christian pedigree. That and about $3 will get you a decent cup of regular coffee.

Born, raised, and born-again in a fundamentalist Christian home; at 53 years old, I am no longer a strict literalist such as yourself when it comes to the "current" Bible's articulation of several historical events. And in my assessment, that is not what matters; such details are the refrigerator art on the door of fundamental faith in our creator God. But as a former "fundie", I can acknowledge and appreciate your devotion to today's library of 66 manuscripts captured from word-of-mouth oral tradition, selected for you by the Constantine-sponsored Roman Catholics, and edited over centuries by various translators and the Middle Age church along the way. Where we will part ways is in our perspective on whether history shows their inerrant following of the Holy Spirit's leading vs. being subject to the influence of political or personal agendas, cultural and educational paradigms, and/or plain old human error. But again, the minor details don't detract from the main points when taken with reason and wisdom.

In my decades of reading, the Bible is by its own declaration an introductory chapter to a much bigger story that spans all space and eternity. To perceive it as the exclusive and final revelation is a mistake that many people make. There is absolutely no reason to think that God hasn't or won't create a great many things beyond our awareness or comprehension. It would be natural for man's limited mind to read the Bible and reach the conclusion that he was God's apex creation, but the Bible never actually says (or even infers) that such is the case. Even Jesus himself made it pretty clear that it was all about the Father's plans for His creation and not himself (a point that is 180 degrees misunderstood by most modern day folks who label themselves Christian).

PS - I fully anticipate that you will disagree with my viewpoint above; and perhaps use words like apostasy, deceived, heresy, or any of the other well-worn retorts; I will simply ask you to take my word as a gentleman that this position did not come without much research, thought, and prayer.

No need for a preemptive retort. I appreciate your perspective but I disagree wholeheartedly.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Factually inaccurate assertion that has led to countless deaths. Particularly the drinking of poison and handling venomous snakes bit from verse 18. This is a corruption of scripture, it does not exist in the earliest manuscripts, it got added later.

Mark 16:9-20

9 When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons. 10 She went and told those who had been with him and who were mourning and weeping. 11 When they heard that Jesus was alive and that she had seen him, they did not believe it.

12 Afterward Jesus appeared in a different form to two of them while they were walking in the country. 13 These returned and reported it to the rest; but they did not believe them either.

14 Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen.

15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

19 After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God. 20 Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.

I’m a cessationist. I would say that the inclusion of sign gifts like speaking in tongues and healing in that statement places them in that category as well. Like when Paul was bitten by a venomous snake and shook it off..

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

No
No government and religious inspired testament was left out.

Then you affirm the apocrypha?

 

[rookhawk]

I’m a cessationist. I would say that the inclusion of sign gifts like speaking in tongues and healing in that statement places them in that category as well. Like when Paul was bitten by a venomous snake and shook it off..

Cessationist or not, the final verses of Mark are not canon. In most mainstream modern bibles it will place those verses in italics or footnote them "not in the earliest manuscripts".

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Ok so your stand that there is no aliens. Is there left out of the Bible for us. Ok

I think I know what you mean? Yes. Essentially

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

That can be said about every religion on the planet. And any faith based belief.

True

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Cessationist or not, the final verses of Mark are not canon. In most mainstream modern bibles it will place those verses in italics or footnote them "not in the earliest manuscripts".

That’s all well and good. Doesn’t change my opinion

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

To say Islam is a false religion is to say Judaism & Christianity are also false religions SINCE all three believe in One god, the God of Abraham. This is not to say that in each of the religions there has been mis-interpretations - but it is unfounded to claim any of the three as completely false.

No it’s not…. Judaism is apostate and has been since Christ came and they rejected Him. That said, there has always been a certain who have believed.

Islam is as false as they come. Like all false religions they reject Christ.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Exactly correct.

Nope

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

God is Great. I know him, and I know this to be true. All the rest doesn't really matter after that. Quit your arguing. Love The Father, and prosper. I'm no graduate in theology, but I can walk away from this thread knowing that I gave you the truth to do with what you will.

Even demons believe in God, and they tremble. Means nothing if you don’t believe in His Son Whom He sent.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

As I noted earlier, there is an underlying arrogance associated with fundamentalism where discussion or uncomfortable facts are met with the implied - I am the better Christian and uniquely gifted with truth.

Narrow is the way. You obviously don’t believe that from your numerous posts

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

This has to be a visiting space ship of sorts.

Exodus 19:16-18
On the third day, when morning came, there was thunder and lightning. A thick cloud was upon the mountain, and a very loud blast of the ram’s horn went out, so that all the people in the camp trembled. / Then Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet with God, and they stood at the foot of the mountain. / Mount Sinai was completely enveloped in smoke, because the LORD had descended on it in fire. And the smoke rose like the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mountain quaked violently.

Yea it absolutely “HAS” to be.. Or it might mean exactly what it said..

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

I was a committed Arminian (regarding Soteriology) until a 6-year deep dive in the scriptures convinced me I was wrong.

We have to be willing to let the Word and the Spirit renew our minds.

I’ll side with Calvinists on some things, Arminians on others.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

On the contrary I think the real issue is that non-Calvinists are unable to wrap their heads around the complexity of the concept that a truly omniscient God (check that definition again) can absolutely allow free choice and simultaneously know the choices a person will select. Limit God's omniscient character in any form, and he is no longer God. We are merely trying to fit him into our limited horizons of knowledge. That is the true complexity or paradox which is seemingly unfathomable to the those who do not understand Calvinism. Yet is so simple.

And here we see the superiority complex among some Calvinists that often raises its head. And I have an arrogant viewpoint?

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

I’ll side with Calvinists on some things, Arminians on others.