Reflex Sights on Dangerous Game Rifles

[markferrigno]

Second on the Docter and optics trade. I bought the mount for my Heym from Optics trade, great folks to deal with. The Docter (I use a Site II 3.5 MOA) is quality optic. The only things I don't care are the lousy US support from Docter USA (I was told that unless I bought the site directly from them at $150 more the site is not covered under warranty) and the absolute dopey adjustment system on the Site II (not sure if SITE III uses it) instead of hash marks and U/R arrows on the Site we'll give you a wheel that you thread the adjustment screwdriver through and adjust POI that way.

It's still a great optic but reminds you every time you use that it is German

 

[One Day...]

The only things I don't care are the lousy US support from Docter USA (I was told that unless I bought the site directly from them at $150 more the site is not covered under warranty)

Having experienced the same bewilderment at the Docter USA website, I noted in their "About Us" section that they state: "Docter USA is one of the official distributors for the Docter Red Dot Sights, Docter products, and Mounts."
Unless I am completely out of my rockers - which is always a possibility LOL - I would take a solid wager that Docter USA has NOTHING to do with Analytik Jena AG, the original German company who makes Docter sights, or Noblex GmbH, who acquired them in 2016.
It looks to me that the DocterUSA.com domain name was probably registered by a third party. For a while in the 80's and 90's it was a business for some folks to register thousands of domain names in the US for emerging or foreign products, in the hope that companies would then have to buy the domain rights from them. Reportedly, some pretty juicy deals were made essentially selling back their brand to international companies. Conversely, some companies never accepted what they perceived as blackmail, and you still find from time to time a domain and a website that essentially rely on people's good faith belief that they are dealing with the real folks when actually they are not. Which explains probably why Docter USA is not interested in offering factory warranty ... simply because they are not "the factory."
Not making any direct claim re. docterusa.com, but it sure does not look like they are part of Noblex GmbH...
Just my $0.02 ;-)

 

[markferrigno]

I think your analysis is right on the money. If I had an issue I would send it back to Germany for repair. The "buy from us or no warranty" really raised the Red Flag. Also, if you look at their website they only list Red Dots, not any of the other Docter Products.

 

[BeeMaa]

Has anyone been able to co-witness their red dot/reflex sights with the irons?
Is the appropriate action for a battery/optic failure to make sure you have a QD mount?

The reason I ask is that I have two Vortex reflex sights. One on my handgun (which is co-witnessed with iron sights) and one on my turkey gun. The one on my turkey gun crapped the bed on a hunt due to the recoil of the 12ga 3.5" shells I use. That Benelli SBE kicks worse than my 375. Vortex replaced the optic and I have had no problems since. Now turkey is hardly DG, but I lost my only optic after my first shot (no worries, the turkey was dead). I think to myself, would I want to be fumbling with a QD mount when the seconds really count as a big nasty closes the distance if the same were to occur with a big bore rifle?

 

[postoak]

Realistically, the PHs with you would take care of a charge in that very tiny likelihood. Buy something with a good reputation for ruggedness and use it a lot before taking it to Africa to make sure it doesn't fail prematurely. If it did fail over there and you were in the middle of taking several species of DG, I'd just remove it at camp and sight in with my iron sights.

 

[BeeMaa]

Postoak - I am certain you are correct, that the PH would step in and do his job. Problem is - it's my job to be as prepared as possible. From practicing off sticks and different shooting positions to having the proper equipment for the hunt. Being able to control the things you can and be prepared for the worst while hoping for the best is what I believe is my job as a client. If there is a way to co-witness sights on a DG caliber rifle, I will do my best to find it. Until then the best option I have found is the QD mount offered by Wayne at AHR. That is the only option I have really seen that will work the way I would like.

 

[mdwest]

If anyone is interested, Cabelas just put te Trijicon RMR Type 1 (3.25 MOA) Reflex on sale (through the end of the month) for $325.. or you can pick up a Burris AR Prism + a Burris Fast Fire (package deal) for $349...


https://www.cabelas.com/catalog/browse/_/N-1115216?CQ_page=0&CQ_view=list&CQ_ztype=GNP

 

[Tam Dl]

I have been using the TRS-25 on some guns. They are cheap and have a reputation for soaking up recoil that may or not extend to the DG rifles. Every class of gun has it's peculiarities, as pointed out about the turkey gun above. I may put one on my 9.3x62, though that won't tell me much with the 90% loads I use.

The one thing I am writing to mention is that as a reflex sight, if you have astigmatism you will see multiple aiming points. I have bad enough astigmatism in my left eye that I should wear glasses, my right eye at least into my late 50s is OK enough that I don't wear glasses. I didn't realize I had an astigmatism in it, until I bought one of these sights. First I put a chinese sight on a .22lr, and it was completely unusable. The TRS-25 is usable for me. But just something to look into before you drop heavy cash on one of the fancier sights that might also be less than perfect. Again, nothing in my life prepared me for this, as having astigmatism to the degree I do has not created any odd optical effects other than the left eye being somewhat blurry.

 

[elmerfudd555]

Literally have hundreds of heavy rounds through my Benelli SBE with the Burris Fast Fire 3 on it. Zero complaints, holds zero well, very compact.

 

[BeeMaa]

Tam DI - Sorry to hear about your eyes. I suspect that there are many members that are going to red dot/reflex sight for aging eye reasons...me among them.

elmerfudd555 - Vortex never told me what the exact reason for the failure was, but I've had zero problems with the replacement. The one on my Springfield Armory XD has endured several hundred rounds with no problems as well. Haven't lost zero with either after initial sighing in, but that one failure...gives me pause for use on a DG hunt.

 

[wesheltonj]

. . . . However, If I was going to mount a reflex sight on anything other then a black gun. I would buy the Zeiss. Trijicon makes a very popular one.

Well, I just saw the press release that Leica will have reflex sights (two models) available sometime soon. So now maybe, it would be between the Zeiss & the Leica.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Both my wife and I have using the aimpoint H2 mini & the trijicon mini. I like the trijicon she likes the aimpoint although she shoots the Rubicon well. At the end of the day I will be going to the leupold due to the reason you do not have to remove from the base to change batteries.

 

[BeeMaa]

Both my wife and I have using the aimpoint H2 mini & the trijicon mini. I like the trijicon she likes the aimpoint although she shoots the Rubicon well. At the end of the day I will be going to the leupold due to the reason you do not have to remove from the base to change batteries.

FYI - There are two versions of the Leupold. DeltaPoint and DeltaPoint Pro.
Leupold is no longer making the DeltaPoint, but some suppliers are trying to get rid of their old stock.
The Pro is pretty much the same but has better protection for the lens. There are some other differences, but I can't remember them at the moment. Google can help you with that better than I can.

Just don't want you paying for a Pro and getting the regular DeltaPoint.

At the same time if the differences don't matter to you, the old DeltaPoint could be cheaper.

 

[Rule 303]

Bit late chiming in with my 2cents worth. I run an Aimpoint 9000L on my 416Rigby. The Aimpoints are non magnifying sights, though you can get attachments to do this but I wouldn't bother as there are draw backs.
Some things to check out.
Not all sights are equal, some will handle the recoil of heavy recoils well some wont and there are those somewhere in between. Check out the various sights if you can. Some you may have to hunt to find the dot, as such they are not quick to use. Some will washout when facing into a setting sun far earlier than others. Battery life is incredible long with the Aimpoint, when you arrive in camp, turn it on and leave it on. Not sure with the others.

 

[Longwalker]

I have a Burris Fastfire II on my Merkel 140 450-400 double rifle and another on a Marlin 1895 lever action Guide Gun in 45-70. I like the small size, clear quick aiming point, and accuracy from the bench. But I have not shot game with either one yet.

 

[Dwight Beagle]

FYI - There are two versions of the Leupold. DeltaPoint and DeltaPoint Pro.
Leupold is no longer making the DeltaPoint, but some suppliers are trying to get rid of their old stock.
The Pro is pretty much the same but has better protection for the lens. There are some other differences, but I can't remember them at the moment. Google can help you with that better than I can.

Just don't want you paying for a Pro and getting the regular DeltaPoint.

At the same time if the differences don't matter to you, the old DeltaPoint could be cheaper.

With the original you have to remove the sight from the firearm to change the battery, which means you have to sight the rifle in again. With the DeltaPoint Pro you change the battery while it is mounted, which is by far the biggest reason for getting the Pro for me.

If I buy another mini red dot it will be a Delta Point Pro.

 

[Dwight Beagle]

The Burris FF III is popular with turkey hunters because of its low profile when mounted compared to some other sights. I have one on my turkey shotgun and have no complaints. I wanted to try the Vortex Venom on the shotgun but everyone was out of stock so I got the FASTFIRE III. I’m not a fan of Vortex scopes but like their mini red dots, I have a Razor mini red dot on my AR. As stated above if I buy another red dot I’ll go with a Delta Point Pro.

I don’t own a DGR rifle. I get something of a kick reading recommendations from people who have never owned one or hunted dangerous game. So I have a question. I have a Leupold VX-R 2-7 x33 with a Firedot 4 reticle. I can acquire targets just as fast with it as I can with a red dot, ergo, the Firedot 4 reticle acts as a red dot. In fact I can acquire a target faster with the VX-R because the lines in the reticle draw my eyes to the dot faster than when I use a mini red dot. For all intents and purposes the Firedot 4 is a German #4 with an illuminated red dot in the center. So would a 1-4, 1-6, etc illuminated reticle scope with true 1x be more versatile on a DGR rifle than a red dot?

 

[JakeH]

The Burris FF III is popular with turkey hunters because of its low profile when mounted compared to some other sights. I have one on my turkey shotgun and have no complaints. I wanted to try the Vortex Venom on the shotgun but everyone was out of stock so I got the FASTFIRE III. I’m not a fan of Vortex scopes but like their mini red dots, I have a Razor mini red dot on my AR. As stated above if I buy another red dot I’ll go with a Delta Point Pro.

I don’t own a DGR rifle. I get something of a kick reading recommendations from people who have never owned one or hunted dangerous game. So I have a question. I have a Leupold VX-R 2-7 x33 with a Firedot 4 reticle. I can acquire targets just as fast with it as I can with a red dot, ergo, the Firedot 4 reticle acts as a red dot. In fact I can acquire a target faster with the VX-R because the lines in the reticle draw my eyes to the dot faster than when I use a mini red dot. For all intents and purposes the Firedot 4 is a German #4 with an illuminated red dot in the center. So would a 1-4, 1-6, etc illuminated reticle scope with true 1x be more versatile on a DGR rifle than a red dot?

From my uneducated opinion, the only way a 1-4+ illuminated reticle scope wouldn’t be more versatile than a red dot would be with the eye relief on the scope vs the red dot. Now in a scout scope setup, they’d be much closer.

 

[rookhawk]

The Docter Sight II and Docter Sight C are both very nice optics. We purchased one for our custom Savage 12 gauge smooth bore "rifle" so we can use it for turkey hunting, or change to a rifled choke and get decent accuracy with diminished recoil loads for deer inside 75 yards for kids. It aims and points very nicely and yes, it is a goofy way to calibrate and tune as others have mentioned.

For $300 it is very high quality. To save $150 on an officially branded docter mount, I bought the burris mount which is compatible. It sucked. The threads stripped during installation at MODERATE inch pounds of torque. Yes, burris sent us another one easy as pie with their great warranty, but the fact is that it needs a warranty. (like Vortex, defies logic how much people love them when you look a the ocean of their products for sale as refurbish...lots of warranty activation occurs)

One more caveat emptor: there are FLAWLESS counterfeits on eBay for Docter sights starting at $35 each. ANYONE can be duped by the counterfeits because they are that good, in correct packaging, and often have fake $200 mounts with them too. They are built by the chi-coms for use on airsoft guns (toy guns with no recoil).

Bottom line: buy for full price from some authorized dealer, never eBay. <$300 on eurooptic.com as one such reliable example.

 

[Rule 303]

From my uneducated opinion, the only way a 1-4+ illuminated reticle scope wouldn’t be more versatile than a red dot would be with the eye relief on the scope vs the red dot. Now in a scout scope setup, they’d be much closer.

Where good quality red dots - like Aimpoint - have the advantage is the eye box. Does not mater where the eye is in relation to the scope or how far from the scope the eye is, if the dot is on target you are on target. Also you can see the dot from angles you can not with a standard scope.