Need help with Mauser safety

[SwampTrooper]

Do you intend to scope it? If not, I would just toss that safety and find a military flag style. Someone installed this one incorrectly. No telling what they did to cocking piece. Good news is they are easily replaced. Actually, that is likely the issue. I'm thinking Bubba installed the wrong style cocking piece. There's at least two styles of 98 Mauser cocking pieces: A and B. Maybe more.

Unfortunately I do intend to use a scope on this. I’m hoping to build it in the style of those delicate looking pre-war sporters for my daughter. It’s turned into a much bigger project than I had hoped.

 

[SwampTrooper]

I’ll try and find the damaged safety I have and take out a good one and get a photo, may not be today
Gumpy

I’d really appreciate that!

 

[SwampTrooper]

Just to make sure I understand the issue correctly. When the bolt is cycled and locked into battery ready to fire, you then cannot lift the safety handle to engage the safety into a safe condition?
Previous comments that there are many versions that all follow the same principle is correct.
The ramp on the safety should match up with the front edge of the cocking piece and cam the cocking piece back slightly off the trigger sear.
It sounds like the cocking piece when engaged on the trigger sear is too far forward and the ramp on the safety is not lining up with the front face of the cocking piece. Hence it is all locked up. When you pull the cocking piece back a little this then allows the safety to rotate into the safe position.

To understand the problem better can you take a macro photo from the top right side of the bolt shroud and try to show the ramp on the safety and the front edge cocking piece when the rifle is ready to fire.

Yes! I will try to do this. Thank you this is the direction I need. I’ll post a photo.

 

[SwampTrooper]

Just to make sure I understand the issue correctly. When the bolt is cycled and locked into battery ready to fire, you then cannot lift the safety handle to engage the safety into a safe condition?
Previous comments that there are many versions that all follow the same principle is correct.
The ramp on the safety should match up with the front edge of the cocking piece and cam the cocking piece back slightly off the trigger sear.
It sounds like the cocking piece when engaged on the trigger sear is too far forward and the ramp on the safety is not lining up with the front face of the cocking piece. Hence it is all locked up. When you pull the cocking piece back a little this then allows the safety to rotate into the safe position.

To understand the problem better can you take a macro photo from the top right side of the bolt shroud and try to show the ramp on the safety and the front edge cocking piece when the rifle is ready to fire.

Yes as you describe the safety is completely locked when on fire. I have to physically pull back on the cocking piece using a tool to then index the safety onto “safe”. Here are photos from different angles on fire and safe. As can be seen, when on safe the cocking piece is much more retracted than on fire. The ramp of the safety has nothing to accurate on.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Another question: Would you consider quick detach scope and optional iron sights? If so, you'll definitely NOT want this style wing safety. With scope removed that wing is sticking up in the air and easily gets caught on clothing etc and disengaged. Ask me how I know! My Springfield has the same setup. Also, Dayton Traister and Buhler style wing safeties are notorious for being unsafe even with scope attached. My Springfield's first sporter safety installed by my dad was Dayton (I think) and all I had to do was jiggle the bolt handle and safety disengaged. I have seen Buhler wing safeties do the same. My advice is spend the money and buy a non wing safety. Either Timney side slide safety ($160) or Parkwest 3-position Model 70 style safety ($200 in the white or ~$250 blued including bolt shroud). You might be able to plug the wing safety shaft hole in your bolt shroud if you go with Timney side safety. Good news is it comes with Timney trigger. Bad news, it requires some woodworking skills to modify stock for slide on side of receiver. In my opinion Parkwest safety is the best choice. It would be easiest and safest for your daughter to operate and it certainly won't hurt the value of the gun. I think she'll have trouble reaching over the stock wrist and under the scope to disengage this safety even if you get it to work properly. Timney and Parkwest can be much more easily disengaged with right thumb on right side of receiver.
Here's my 404J built on Czech military Mauser with Parkwest safety.

And here's my Springfield with lefthand wing safety.

This one is sold by SARRCO and required modifying the bolt shroud with a tightening set screw to stop it from disengaging when bolt handle was rattled. And you see what I mean about the lever sticking up in the air when safety is engaged. Note that I had to cut off the signature Springfield striker knob to be able to access lever on left side of receiver with right thumb.

 

[BlueFlyer]

I think this is your smoking gun (pardon the pun). The chamfer on the cocking piece is done when a Winchester 3 position safety shroud is installed. They are around $300+ to have installed, whereas the safety on it now is more like $50. I would suggest the vendor swapped out the Winchester 3 position to sell the rifle.

The red arrow looks like the distance the cocking piece moves with this safety between safe and fire positions which is a lot.

You can verify this by measuring this distance when in fire position and safe position and subtract the difference.

Given it looks to be 4 to 5mm I think you need to look at the trigger sear and understand why the cocking piece is so far forward when in the fire position.

 

[BlueFlyer]

If you were able to contact the previous owner and find out the brand of the 3 position safety, then just buying and installing the same would be the best option. It should just screw in.

 

[SwampTrooper]

Further evidence of the three position swap! The cocking piece has definitely been altered to have material removed from where it engages the sear. This is responsible for the cocking piece “moving too far forward” when in position to fire but the smoking gun is the recess cut to the bolt shroud. Someone stole it off this rifle and sold it on with a cheap and now nonfunctional replacement. I can either replace the cocking piece for one that is full length or buy a Winchester style with most of the work done. Thank you for identifying the problem! I have no other Mauser parts to compare it to so this was extremely useful!

 

[BlueFlyer]

This explains why the cocking piece is so far forward when in the fire position, the red lines is approximately where the metal has been removed from the cocking piece.
Thankfully the bolt body does not look like it has been modified.
A new cocking piece could fix the issue but given the angle ground onto the cocking piece sear face I am guessing the trigger is an aftermarket system with a different sear setup. Really need to get a photo of the trigger & sear.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

View attachment 717468
This explains why the cocking piece is so far forward when in the fire position, the red lines is approximately where the metal has been removed from the cocking piece.
Thankfully the bolt body does not look like it has been modified.
A new cocking piece could fix the issue but given the angle ground onto the cocking piece sear face I am guessing the trigger is an aftermarket system with a different sear setup. Really need to get a photo of the trigger & sear.

Hmmm. You're correct, the bolt body hasn't been modified. But it would have been had the gun been converted to 3-position Winchester style safety. Here's the added notch to my bolt body that is missing from his. Note the bit of spot weld next to the notch I made when fitting Parkwest safety. This was done to correct some of the monkey business caused by previous owner when he welded on aftermarket bolt handle and overheated back end of bolt.

So OP has a frankengun. That's also what I bought when I started my project. I made it work ... eventually. He definitely should check headspace before going further! It's possible the bolt was swapped out. Very possible. If headspace is okay, he can pick up a Model 70 safety but someone will have to finish modifications to bolt body and probably trigger sear. Or find the correct unmodified cocking piece and stick with the wing safety on the gun now.

 

[BlueFlyer]

But it would have been had the gun been converted to 3-position Winchester style safety.

My bad, you are absolutely correct Ontario.
God knows what was done with this rifle.

 

[SwampTrooper]

Hmmm. You're correct, the bolt body hasn't been modified. But it would have been had the gun been converted to 3-position Winchester style safety. Here's the added notch to my bolt body that is missing from his. Note the bit of spot weld next to the notch I made when fitting Parkwest safety. This was done to correct some of the monkey business caused by previous owner when he welded on aftermarket bolt handle and overheated back end of bolt.
View attachment 717474
So OP has a frankengun. That's also what I bought when I started my project. I made it work ... eventually. He definitely should check headspace before going further! It's possible the bolt was swapped out. Very possible. If headspace is okay, he can pick up a Model 70 safety but someone will have to finish modifications to bolt body and probably trigger sear. Or find the correct unmodified cocking piece and stick with the wing safety on the gun now.

You are correct! I made a mistake in thinking the channel for the safety was a notch for Winchester style!

 

[SwampTrooper]

I’ll order a new cocking piece and we’ll chase this problem out!

 

[BlueFlyer]

I’ll order a new cocking piece and we’ll chase this problem out!

This is the logical next step, but.

Given the angled face ground onto the cocking piece where the sear engages, I am not sure a standard cocking piece will work. Really need to see the trigger & sear setup.

 

[BlueFlyer]

He definitely should check headspace before going further!

Have you chambered a cartridge in the rifle?
If the bolt closes on a cartridge, then you need to cut a disc of electrical insulation tape and stick it on the case head to increase the length of the cartridge. The bolt should not close easily.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

This is the logical next step, but.

View attachment 717477

Given the angled face ground onto the cocking piece where the sear engages, I am not sure a standard cocking piece will work. Really need to see the trigger & sear setup.

Yes! This is the cocking piece sear for my Mauser. Significantly different from what's in the OP's gun! As I mentioned earlier, there were a couple different style Mauser cocking pieces, presumably to match up to different style triggers?

Note that I beveled the edges of forward sides of cocking piece sear. This allows it to slide into the tang channel of receiver much more smoothly.

 

[SwampTrooper]

Have you chambered a cartridge in the rifle?
If the bolt closes on a cartridge, then you need to cut a disc of electrical insulation tape and stick it on the case head to increase the length of the cartridge. The bolt should not close easily.

I have chambered a round but will definitely get go/no go gauges before actually shooting. Thanks for looking out!

 

[mdwest]

4D Rentals Homepage - 4D Reamer Rentals

REAMERRENTALS TOOL RENTALS YOUR EXCLUSIVE SOURCE FOR CHAMBER REAMER RENTALS & GUNSMITHING TOOL RENTALS We have 2300+ chamber reamers for rent, in stock & ready to ship. We also rent headspace gauges and many gunsmithing tools. Our tools are well maintained and inspected before and after each...

4drentals.com

If you only need the go/no go gauges for testing headspace on this one rifle, 4d rentals will rent some to you for a nominal amount.

Back when I was building guns, I’d rent my chamber reamers and go/no go gauges from them rather then buy for one off caliber builds like my 35 Whelen, 416 Taylor, etc…

 

[Ontario Hunter]

View attachment 717468
This explains why the cocking piece is so far forward when in the fire position, the red lines is approximately where the metal has been removed from the cocking piece.
Thankfully the bolt body does not look like it has been modified.
A new cocking piece could fix the issue but given the angle ground onto the cocking piece sear face I am guessing the trigger is an aftermarket system with a different sear setup. Really need to get a photo of the trigger & sear.

Looking at the OP's cocking piece and mine modified for 3-position Winchester safety, I don't think his was for similar safety. Note that mine has the straight drop sear catch. Why in gawd's name someone would grind his sear catch off to 45° is absolutely beyond reckoning. That's what the trigger sear is supposed to match up to. If it's 45° then the striker simply cannot EVER cock. There's nothing for the trigger sear to catch and hold till released with finger pressure. When the bolt is closed the trigger sear eventually catches the cocking piece sear somewhere in the middle of the angle ground face of cocking sear but obviously it will just get bound up and can't fire. There is no trigger assembly that could ever match up to this bubba-ized cocking piece. The cocking piece does not belong on this gun ... or any other. Some idiot with a shop grinder who can't read instructions performed this surgery.

 

[BlueFlyer]

There is no trigger assembly that could ever match up to this bubba-ized cocking piece.

The trigger I have on an Omark 44 action, which basically uses a Remington trigger mechanism has a similar 45deg reverse chamfer and the sear matches the ramp on the cocking piece. So, it is possible, but we would need to understand what trigger mechanism and sear is installed on this rifle.