My scope mounting routine

[Altitude sickness]

Hopefully others can jump in with their tricks of the trade. and suggestions

 

[Altitude sickness]

I bought the Benelli Lupo that was for sale here a couple weeks ago. They come with a 2 peice Picatinny rail installed. I will be using the ARC. M10 rings on that rifle. I’ve never heard of them needing to be lapped. Much higher quality than Talley or Leupold rings.

M10 Scope Rings

www.americanrifle.com

 

[Tex .416]

Tex.416, I agree 100%. The vertical split rings are a PIA to get installed correctly.

With horizontal splits. You simply level the rifle by placing the reference level on the action while laying in the vise. Or rear sight base.

Get the rifle to level and place the barrel level.

Then move the reference level to the lower half of the horizontal rings. To ensure they are square with action.

Then place the scope in the lower half of rings.

It’s a much easier process.

It’s worth repeating that Horizontal rings are a PIA to install correctly.

Some engineers say the vertical rings are stronger due to both sides being dovetailed into the base. They also contend that although more tricky to get correct. Vertical are actually less likely to put a twisting motion on the scope as the bolts are tightened because both sides are locked in place.

The horizontal rings can shift left and right as each sides bolts are tightened. As the ring moves left or right it grabs the scope and twists it left or right making it more difficult to get the crosshairs perfectly straight.

This Dakota will be run through the mill out to 500 yards. If it’s not “dead nuts” and tracking accurately. The Talleys will go into the scope ring purgatory box. And I will order a pic rail from Murphy Performance.

I am not following how vertically split rings can be stronger or more even than horizontal split Pic style rings.

About 15 - 20 years ago there was a great study shared in a long range shooting forum by a guy that was an engineer and shooter. He used strain gauges to compare a bunch of rings and mounts. His work was fascinating.

The take aways were a Pic rail with Pic style rings were clear winners for stress free mounting. Vertically split rings were almost impossible to tighten without inducing stress on the tube. They could be manufactured to near perfect specs, but mounting them was the battle.

Other findings were using a torque wrench, even basic ones like a Wheeler Fat Wrench, always produced better results than not using a torque wrench. That was not even close. Making adjustments in small increments to all screws a step at a time helps produce even results. For example, tighten every screw to 10 in/lbs, then come back and tighten everything to 15, then 20, then 25 or whatever the final spec is. Once everything is tightened down to spec, he would back a screw out and then retighten it to release stress.

The other thing that sticks in my memory was that some low cost Pics rings such as the ones sold by SWFA could be surprisingly well cut.

Bigger, thicker, and heavier duty was exactly that, bigger, thicker and heavier duty, both rings and scope tubes.

I will search for it some more and hope it is not lost to internet never, never land as it really was very interesting and informative.

I’ve used all Pic rails and rings since then, although a couple of Spuhr mounts also are in the mix now. Spuhr mounts are the next step in the evolution of scope mounting systems.

 

[RSL]

Does anyone have any experience with Area 419
Hunt Series Rings? They have some interesting features.

 

[Altitude sickness]

They look to be worth a try. Maybe I’ll give them a call. I’m tired of the mass produced rings and bases that have sloppy tolerances.

Paying $150 for Talley then working 2 hours to get them perfect is BS.

 

[C.W. Richter]

Interesting. My add'l. $0.02...I always oil the screws (to lubricate them and prevent corrosion, and in some circumstances this is really important due to the sacrificial anode effect of uncommon metals!!) Everything I mention began with fixing farm equipment, building racecars and race motorcycles...the guns are just simpler and smaller (mechanically. the shooting/ballistics comes with knowledge and experience.)

Hint: The friction coefficient drops (K ≈ 0.15). You must multiply the dry torque spec by 0.65 to 0.75 (a 25% to 35% reduction) to avoid damaging the components. IOW: It requires less effort/work to properly torque a small, oiled screw! It's a non-issue if mindful of it. I've done so much machining and have assembled and disassembled so many metal things in over a half-century, i do NOT use any sort of torque wrench (in-lb) for such small screws. It's not necessary with experience (AND quality mounts). On heads, main and rod bolts (or better yet studs!!) sometimes requiring in excess of 100 ft/lbs, use the highest qualilty torque wrench you can get your hands on (and check the end result clearance with plastigauge or eq.!) There are torque specifications for lug bolts on wheels (often going in excess of 100 MPH,) but no one ever checks it! On cheapie mounts, unfortunately the clamping force exerted may depend upon the screws being ultra-tight, but that's NOT the case on quality stuff. Cheapie rigs (NOT Talley or Alaskan and I've seen some really pretty thin, artsy ones (think Olympics lol) from Europe that actually suck as rings for heavy-recoiling rifles!!)

One of America's TOP gunsmith's (in PA) has used Talley's extensively and he knows I do my own work on certain guns, etc. so one of the questions I asked him (and these are mountain rifles that can shoot 1,000 yd+ no problemos) was "Do you check alignment and/or ream Talley (steel) rings??" and his answer was NO (after checking so many and it not being necessary. They are top shelf.) He also sells high end scopes as part of complete rigs (I always BYO lol) and never an issue. As nearly every gun I have features Talleys, I've never damaged a scope, and never had an accuracy issue (and I DEMAND accuracy!) Just an FYI from a Pro. I'd check the 1-piece lightweights (not to be used on mag or larger cartridges) and other cheapies (Al, Mg, etc.) Use STEEL!!! On a 100 yd DG gun, none of this really matters (the accurizing end of it.) *Some of the lower end, newer scopes do have a much thinner/weaker tube prone to crushing (but I've only witnessed it done in factory Ruger rings that were considerably undersized!!) In that case you have 2 options (on a lower-recoiling gun,) put a spacer (an address label featuring the owner's details can pay dividends here, and when your weapon gets pilfered) in and the effective diameter expands a bit (when the screws aren't tightened down as much.) Ruger must've been going for the 0.75" scope?! LOL I cringe when I see Picatinny rails (best suited for ARs and other defense guns-and I used to pass that Arsenal for 25 yrs 2x daily. lol It now features a tower that can watch terrorists in NYC) I've seen ejected cases bounce off 'em at times when that's NOT the desired result!!

Interesting post

 

[Altitude sickness]

@RSL I just bought a pair of those area 419 rings. We shall see

 

[C.W. Richter]

*There are less than a handful of quality scope mount mfrs in the US today (most contract out to smaller jobbers and some do the Asian thing with sales and marketing to hype up and cash in.) Always buy quality stuff. I used to shake my head when spending the same amount on the entire optic setup that I paid for the gun (years back,) but that's what's required in our sport. I was joking around with a bunch of hunters today via text about so many scope problems at hunting camps over the years (and the main culprit was inexpensive dung (aka cheap shit) made in Asia!) LOL I've witnessed and counseled many over the decades. In this realm, you get what you pay for. Your off-spec Talley's must've been done by a newbie or just a statistical outlier, as that has NOT been the experience of MANY purchasers (again, they're on nearly every bolt I own.)

 

[curt672]

I have some 419 products -- very nice. I have a Park West on order and had it built without the sights, I believe the old -- scope went bad - take it off and use those Iron sights is over, push comes to shove, bring an extra scope. I have been thinking of setting up a red dot to slap on the gun if I need to fill that situation.

 

[RSL]

@RSL I just bought a pair of those area 419 rings. We shall see

Please be kind enough to post a review when you have had a chance to check them out. Thanks