Misconceptions in Hunting.

[timbear]

I would have to agree with Tom and Hitch. As I've read recently: "We don't hunt primarily to kill, we kill to know we have hunted!" Personally I do not call it a sport, I usually say it is my hobby (as in an activity I do for enjoyment rather than profit) or my passion. I positively hate all the political correctness bovine waste, but feel that sport is just not the right term for me.

 

[35bore]

guess instead of "sport" it should be considered "lifestyle' or "passion". I have to disagree with those who call it a sport, whether it is an individual or team effort. Plain and simple you should be doing the hunt for you, and you alone. Not to beat Joe Blow's record book _______(whatever animal you choose for the blank). I feel it is almost disrespectful to the animal in a way. My favorite trophy on the wall is my Blue Wildebeest, yet it does not go SCI or any other record books, but, he's my trophy. Big horns and antlers are great, but, again, my most memorable hunts were the hunt's with my son's, a nice 8 pointer that scored just under 100 inches, and another 6 pointer just about 80 inches. In my mind those two animals were/are the most memorable in my mind. So call it sport if you want but, it's not, I am not competing with anyone including myself. I am out there for the hunt, killing or not (preferably killing) but the kill is not passion, the hunt itself is the passion.

 

[Second Wind]

This whole "killing" thing bothers me just a little

and please understand my comments are meant as no disrespect or disparagement to those who have posted in this vein.

Two items briefly:

#1 the best duck hunt I was ever on I forgot my gun back at the dock. I dunno, a jug on the lycoming was running hot,
lethargic hunters, hard to say but when the sun broke over that raft of decoys and later when I called a flight of pintails right down on top of us it just was kind of magical

#2 the Plains Indians of North America, most notably the Cheyenne, has a custom know as "counting coup" wherein the ultimate act of a warrior's courage was demonstrated when, in battle, he was able to touch his opponent with his hand or bow or coup stick and then escape unharmed

Now, from the above do not infer that I have anything against the killing process for I have done plenty over the last 1/2 century and do not regret an incident one, however, I make mention of the preceding examples only to illustrate that, in this business of hunting, the culmination of the hunt and the ultimate satisfaction derived therefrom may not occur with or from the demise of the pursued quarry but rather at a deeper, more visceral level, within one's soul.

Therefore, I believe it is not the killing per se that is imprinted upon our DNA but rather that moment, however it may come and by whatever character it may take, where we demonstrate, largely to our own self, our supremacy and mastery of the environment.

Thus, the women and children in the cave are safe and there is food at the fire and our dominance relative to the environment is repeatedly re-established with each hunt.


On the other hand it could be that we just like shooting the buggers

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

I'll say it again we do not hunt because we love tracking, nor do we hunt to be regarded as conservationists, nor do we hunt because we love firing or shooting our weaponry..... We hunt to kill whether we end up killing or not is besides the point and to make a bold statement, I also enjoy hunting when I don't, but guys sugar coating it and hiding behind terminologies, will not make it go away,

I am a proud hunter, not a shopper, and whether I kill or not is besides the point but the end result of being out there often concludes in a kill, SO WHAT! That is why I went out in the first place.
:thumb:


My best always.

 

[Norwegianwoods]

I must say I very much agree with Jaco.
I hunt to kill.
But that doesn't mean that I need to kill every time I hunt or can't let an animal walk away or not feel that I had a great hunt without a kill.

If it was just to be out with friends, sit at the campfire and stalk animals, I might as well bring a camera only and never bring a gun or bow.
Every cell in my body screams that I NEED to hunt and my passion for hunting will never be satisfied by taking photos only.
I feel this is very difficult to explain to other hunters that are not as passionate about hunting as I am and it is totally impossible to explain to non-hunters.
My father has been hunting for about 60 years and he doesn't understand me.
My grandfather was a rather passionate hunter for 60 years and he didn't understand me either

 

[iamyourhuckleberry]

Every cell in my body screams that I NEED to hunt and my passion for hunting will never be satisfied by taking photos only.
I feel this is very difficult to explain to other hunters that are not as passionate about hunting as I am and it is totally impossible to explain to non-hunters.
My father has been hunting for about 60 years and he doesn't understand me.
My grandfather was a rather passionate hunter for 60 years and he didn't understand me either

And yet Bjorn, with a lack of understanding (not a day spent in another man's boots-let alone his mind), there seems to be this constant effort by hunters to level the "playing feild". It is a constant, 'you have to hunt just like me'. You are a dispicable person if you don't! There is a complete disregard for the individual-be he stronger or weaker. With that said, shouldn't the laws, rules, regulations, ethics which we apply be broad enough to provide opportunity, not equal opportunity, for everyone? Who is forcing anyone to participate?

I hunt to kill
I count coup when I count coup
I photograph when I have a camera in my hand
I observe when I am a spectator-it's call a spectator sport.

I will not, however, engage in the sport of tell others how, when, where, and why they must conduct their lives (honestly, I have a difficult time doing this for myself). I fully understand this is a fool's game ,and that it's only a matter of time before such fools have their ladders pulled by the champions above.

The goals I set our mine. The milestones I establish are mine. The hunts I take are mine. I compete against no other man. When it's right for me, I squeeze my trigger-I am completely in control of the fairness factor. My race will involve time and distance in the outdoors; there will be measurements and records. I will endeavor to assist others with their race. And finally, I will vehemently scream a "live and let live" battle cry. This is my sport. It is a stimulant which invigorates. I cannot get enough of it.

 

[StickFlicker AZ]

Not having a book for record keeping was extremely unfortunate for carrier Pigeons.

I believe you meant Passenger Pigeons. There still are carrier pigeons.

we all do it..... Why?????? Because we love killing,........

I completely disagree with that statement. I think relatively few hunters love killing. The opportunity to kill must be there to have hunted, but I honestly believe that most hunters actually have mixed emotions and some sadness at the actual killing. That may actually be at the very bottom of my reasons to hunt. I think there are numerous aspects of the hunt that are far more important to most hunters than the killing.

I agree with those that have stated that "sport" hunting derives it's name from the fair chase nature, and the fact that it is done not out of necessity (for food or clothing), but for enjoyment. There are certainly other types of hunting other than sport hunting, including subsistence hunting and market hunting. Man may hunt for a variety of reasons, but when he does it for the pleasure and the challenge of "competing" against the animal and nature moreso than to actually obtain the game for food or clothing, it is referred to as sport hunting. The term does not offend me.

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

:hmmmer::confusion2::confusion2::confusion2::confusion2::confusion2::confusion2::confusion2:I agree with those that have stated that "sport" hunting derives it's name from the fair chase nature, and the fact that it is done not out of necessity (for food or clothing), but for enjoyment. There are certainly other types of hunting other than sport hunting, including subsistence hunting and market hunting. Man may hunt for a variety of reasons, but when he does it for the pleasure and the challenge of "competing" against the animal and nature moreso than to actually obtain the game for food or clothing, it is referred to as sport hunting. The term does not offend me.




So you disagree but you do agree???? Confused.........
My best always.

 

[Diamondhitch]

My goal is to kill an animal but my pleasure is not derived there. There is, however, a completely different feel to hunting when Killing an animal is not an option. Stalking an animal that you may want to kill is just as exciting whether you choose to kill it or not yet stalking an animal just for the sake of stalking it, while fun, does not have the same sense of urgency. Sitting in a treestand watching deer gets old real quick once your tag is on a buck (tried this in SK after killing out in the 1st hour of a week long hunt), yet I can sit for days or weeks if I am trying to kill a buck. At the end of season I am just as happy to have passed on deer or hunted without an opportunity as I am to have tagged a buck. The elation of being successful (killing an animal) is short lived yet the memory of the entire hunt is what remains for years to come. I find close calls or completely unrelated random events are far more memorable than an easy kill, I have lieterally forgotten completely about game killed with little or no hunt yet the memory of that Klipspringer almost running right into us last month while glassing for kudu atop a gorgeous Eastern Cape mountain will stay with me my entire life.

Killing is an inseparable and neccessary part of hunting but it is not the heart of it, not for me anyway.

 

[Norwegianwoods]

And yet Bjorn, with a lack of understanding (not a day spent in another man's boots-let alone his mind), there seems to be this constant effort by hunters to level the "playing feild". It is a constant, 'you have to hunt just like me'. You are a dispicable person if you don't! There is a complete disregard for the individual-be he stronger or weaker. With that said, shouldn't the laws, rules, regulations, ethics which we apply be broad enough to provide opportunity, not equal opportunity, for everyone? Who is forcing anyone to participate?

I hunt to kill
I count coup when I count coup
I photograph when I have a camera in my hand
I observe when I am a spectator-it's call a spectator sport.

I will not, however, engage in the sport of tell others how, when, where, and why they must conduct their lives (honestly, I have a difficult time doing this for myself). I fully understand this is a fool's game ,and that it's only a matter of time before such fools have their ladders pulled by the champions above.

The goals I set our mine. The milestones I establish are mine. The hunts I take are mine. I compete against no other man. When it's right for me, I squeeze my trigger-I am completely in control of the fairness factor. My race will involve time and distance in the outdoors; there will be measurements and records. I will endeavor to assist others with their race. And finally, I will vehemently scream a "live and let live" battle cry. This is my sport. It is a stimulant which invigorates. I cannot get enough of it.

In many ways I think we agree on this Will.
There are many ways of hunting that I either don't like at all or find to be far away from how I want to hunt. But I would never consider to want it to be illegal or regard the hunters doing it to be bad persons.
But at the same time do I think that some things done in the name of hunting does nothing else than to hurt us as hunters.

I would never consider to expect or demand people to hunt just like me or just use the hunting methods I use.
I know what gives me the greatest hunting satisfaction and it is not my business to tell other hunters what gives them their greatest hunting satisfaction. That they can only decide themselves.
I am all for that all kinds of people should be able to hunt, no matter their age or if they have disabilities. So there must be hunting methods that give these hunters a fair chance to shoot the animal they want to hunt. But that doesn't mean that putting drugged animals in small pens for people to shoot and then call it hunting is totally fine.

And I still very much dislike the word sport when there is talked about hunting, but that might because my first language is not English and because of that put another meaning to the word than English/American speaking people

 

[Diamondhitch]

Another quick thought, If we value killing above all else in hunting then we must enjoy death. If that is true then why do we strive to and take satisfaction in provinding a very quick death? Shouldnt we want to savor that moment for as long as we could draw it out instead of striving for one shot kills and DRT?

 

[iamyourhuckleberry]

Bjorn,

We are definitely on the same page.

Stickflicker, I did mean passenger pigeons...thanks for correcting that.

Diamond, I agree. I take no pleasure in killing-I want it to be as fast as possible. I recognize it as a very important and neccessary piece of the experience.

I need to get back to work...so I can afford to go hunt.

Good input guys!

 

[StickFlicker AZ]

So you disagree but you do agree???? Confused.........

I disagree with the original poster that the term sport hunting is offensive, because I agree with the other posters that state that the word "sport" comes from a meaning other than "a competition with other hunters" as seems to offend the thread owner.

 

[35bore]

Bjorn,



I take no pleasure in killing-I want it to be as fast as possible. I recognize it as a very important and neccessary piece of the experience.



Good input guys!

huckleberry, I call a BS on this quote

Isn't the major part of "Hunting" the harvesting/Killing of an animal??? I am just messing with you here but, seriously, it would be "watching" instead of hunting if you didn't enjoy the kill?

I believe that we all want a clean kill, but, it is a kill none the less.

 

[iamyourhuckleberry]

35 Bore,

It is my opinion, men can do things they find extremely unpleasant providing the cause is right-war and hunting (the taking of life) are perfect examples. Who in their right mind finds pleasure in destroying something one is taught to cherish and respect?

Upon reflection I have to ask, would you enjoy killing a severely injuried animal while it struggled alongside a road? Would you merely watch? Do nothing? Walk away? I personally wouldn't! I'd be terribly troubled and sorrowful because of what is about to be lost. Would I dispatch such an injuried animal quickly? Yes. In my heart I understand it is the right thing to do. The emotions I exude would not include joy.

I freed an entangled elk from a three wire fence awhile back. If I enjoyed killing, I would have slit its throat. I was bearing the proper tags and the season was upon me.

Two years ago, I arrowed the same bruiser white-tailed buck several times from my treestand. Every shot was spot on-exactly where it needed to be. This gaint would not go down. The remorse I felt got worst with each successive arrow. One would think I'd become more jubilant with each successive arrow...if I enjoyed killing. I can tell you that was not the case. Moreover, I've experienced similar situations with the female variety of deer. I will spare you the details on other species-suffice to know these types of stories could be ongoing.

If for some reason hunting were to become banned worldwide, yes I admit, there would be an emptiness in my life. Does that mean I enjoy killing? No. It means an aspect of my life which I truly believe in is gone. At that point, I would ask the Lord to be merciful on both man and beast.

Go ahead, ask me if I enjoy giving life.

Amigo, thanks for the thought provocation.

 

[firehuntfish]

I have enjoyed reading this entire thread. Some very interesting personal points of view have been expressed. I'm especially intrigued at how poetic and philisophical some of the views have been expressed....

In reading all of this I have definitely learned a few things about myself... Firstly, I'm not nearly as intellectual or profound about the hunting/killing experience as many of you here. I think the drive, desire, and satisfaction I receive from my hunting expereinces are much more primal. I do believe it's in ones DNA, regardless of what title you choose to put on it...The anticipation, the stalk, that split second before the shot, and hopefully the consumption of the kill, stirs something deep within me. Can I go out in the field and appreciate a sunrise, and the beauty of the Earth without killing an animal every time? Sure, but it's not complete.. It's simply consolation and enticement until the next encounter. Why are so many hunters reluctant to admit that to themselves?

I have no issue with considering myself as a apex predator, and yes I do enjoy the act of killing as much as any aspect of the hunt. I think those who are emotionally conflicted by the killing aspect, are either not being honest themselves or they simply don't have the constitution to be a hunter.... Nothing wrong with that, but if you truly don't relish and thrive in the entire experience, why would you continue to hunt?

Enjoying the thrill and adrenalin rush of the hunt and ultimately the kill does not make you a sociopathic murderer.....At least, for most of us... The example someone gave of taking no pleasure in putting down an injured animal, is comparing apples and oranges. Anyone who is unable to differentiate those two completely different actions may indeed have psycological issues. As humans, we differentiate ourselves from the rest of the animals because of our ability to have intellect and cognitive thoughts... Most of us don't need to kill our food, yet as hunters, we opt to... It's a cruel joke that nature has played on many of us giving us intellect and a killer instinct. It's up to each individual to choose what to do with it... Speaking for myself, I embrace it without appology....

I'm truly not trying to offend anyone's point of view here. We all hunt for different reasons, and we all get different things out of it. It's all good! However, I'm at the point in my life where I no longer feel the need to justify the reasons why I hunt to anyone. I gladly explain it to the best of my ability when asked, but I don't expect non-hunters or anti's to get it....

A great number of hunters still feel the need to "justify" their passion by selling the conservation aspect of it...The conservation benefits along with the multitude of other benefits responsible hunting brings is great , but it's not why I hunt. And I'm sorry, but anyone who sells it as that is lying to themselves....

The unwritten animal that is truly on the endangered species list is the human hunter. This misinformed, politically correct, left-leaning world that we live in in consuming us. We are a dying breed, and I'm not sure if all of our best efforts will save us. Nature is cyclical, so maybe the fate of the hunter is ineveitable. I hope I won't be around to see the demise....

Interesting conversation though.... Looking forward to hearing more...

 

[Bobpuckett]

Not for me. Seriously. Killing is but a very small part of hunting. At least in my mind. I like the time spent outdoors with family and friends, reconnecting with what is real and being away from society. I also enjoy the challenge of trying to solve the puzzle of when and where an animal will be given certain circumstances. The actual release of the arrow or bullet is only a small part of it for me.

Plus 1 for me. Many times while hunting the sport was not the kill but the stalk itself while hunting for my Common Reedbuck Silently stalking through the brush and rocks no Reedbuck to be found we were able to stalk up to within camera distance of an Aardwolf sitting in the grass without it even being aware of our presence so the stalk and photo and the memory then became my Trophy.

 

[iamyourhuckleberry]

Firehuntfish,

Thank you for your input. Allow me to respond.


I love to hunt. I hunt to kill. I understand, in order to have hunted, I must kill. There are many benefits associated with a hunt and a kill. There are many benefits associated with a walk in the woods void of a kill. I am not averse to participating in either. I do not, however, need to enjoy killing in order to enjoy hunting. In a like manner, I do not thrive in the entire experience of field dressing, skinning, and butchering an animal, but I do it-with speed and professionalism. Again, I see it as an important and necessary part of the hunt, and something I'd rather do myself-like the kill.

If I relished and enjoyed killing, then dispatching any animal under any circumstance would be an easy task (this has nothing to do with either apples or oranges). It is not-at least not for me. I am deeply moved when I kill/when I hunt. I pray those emotional responses never go away! If they do, then yeah, perhaps I would quit hunting. I cannot imagine myself ever being in a position where regard for life was absent. Nor, will I ever seek joie de vivre from killing. Is it necessary? Yes. Is it important? Yes. Am I being honest with myself? Yes. Am I missing principle? I think not.

Let me ask you. How can a person (having intellect and cognitive thoughts) enjoy giving life and at the same moment enjoy taking life?

We all hunt for different reasons, and we all get different things out of it. It's all good!

Spot on my friend!

 

[35bore]

35 Bore,

It is my opinion, men can do things they find extremely unpleasant providing the cause is right-war and hunting (the taking of life) are perfect examples. Who in their right mind finds pleasure in destroying something one is taught to cherish and respect?

Upon reflection I have to ask, would you enjoy killing a severely injuried animal while it struggled alongside a road? Would you merely watch? Do nothing? Walk away? I personally wouldn't! I'd be terribly troubled and sorrowful because of what is about to be lost. Would I dispatch such an injuried animal quickly? Yes. In my heart I understand it is the right thing to do. The emotions I exude would not include joy.

I freed an entangled elk from a three wire fence awhile back. If I enjoyed killing, I would have slit its throat. I was bearing the proper tags and the season was upon me.

Two years ago, I arrowed the same bruiser white-tailed buck several times from my treestand. Every shot was spot on-exactly where it needed to be. This gaint would not go down. The remorse I felt got worst with each successive arrow. One would think I'd become more jubilant with each successive arrow...if I enjoyed killing. I can tell you that was not the case. Moreover, I've experienced similar situations with the female variety of deer. I will spare you the details on other species-suffice to know these types of stories could be ongoing.

If for some reason hunting were to become banned worldwide, yes I admit, there would be an emptiness in my life. Does that mean I enjoy killing? No. It means an aspect of my life which I truly believe in is gone. At that point, I would ask the Lord to be merciful on both man and beast.

Go ahead, ask me if I enjoy giving life.

Amigo, thanks for the thought provocation.

I have to admit, you raise valid points. I have to agree to disagree on this matter though. Yes, I do enjoy the killing aspect of hunting, I also enjoy the tracking,skinning, processing of the meat and most of all the eating of wild game. Killing is the major factor in my mind, because without killing there would be not tracking, skinning, processing or eating. Call it primal, primitive, whatever, the taking of an animals life does (in a weird way) take me back to my perception of the beginning of time/life. I also thank God for the pleasure and gift he has given me each and every time he put's one in range. I cherish and respect the gifts that he has given me, but they are gifts, that he put here for us. If you think I am wrong for enjoying the kill, so be it, I do enjoy it. I have no ill feelings toward you for not enjoying the kill. We are after all both hunters, we just disagree on this topic.

On a side note, I have met several former soldiers that have "enjoyed their job" so to speak, they were religious as well, their government gave them a task, and they did what they had to do. They are a perfect addition to our society and have adapted well with being a civilian. They make no bones about the fact that they enjoyed the kill though, I respect them and their honesty...

 

[iamyourhuckleberry]

35bore,

I accept our differences. Yes, we can agree to disagree.