I got my Model 70 Safari Express to feed (.416 Remington Magnum)

[postoak]

Hmm, so fourfive8 is saying that he can manipulate a cartridge purposefully to make it hang up and I guess that's what I'm doing here.

And yes, I have found it helps with easy of loading smoothly to keep the cartridge horizontal while pressing down so I sometimes wrap my left hand under the stock and press down on the front half of the cartridge with my second and third fingers while simultaneously using my thumb to press down on the back half of the cartridge, but it isn't really necessary (and it is just a hair slower) as long as I don't deliberately manipulate the cartridges back so far that they are blocked by the lower feed rail where it turns in.

I am pretty sure that if I send this rifle back to Winchester that they'll return it with a notation that it is working as designed and I wouldn't trust my local gunsmith to touch it, so I'd have to send it to some nationally renowned gunsmith to work on.

 

[Boomstick!]

Let’s see a picture of the brass. If it’s scratched length wise that’s a burr on the bottom of the bolt raceway. That will clog up the works big time. I’ve now had to clean up the burr on 2 Kimber's 4 Montana’s 1 FN and 1 Ruger M77 Alaskan

 

[postoak]

I wish I could change the title to "I got my rifle to *load*" from "I got my rifle to *feed*". Once I learned enough about the proper way to load the rounds, I've never had any problem with feeding.

 

[fourfive8]

postoak,
I know what you mean about gunsmiths. Some are fairly specialized, some are excellent and some not so much

Here's a pic of "area of concern" of a ca 1994-98, Win 70, 375 HH Super Express. It operates flawlessly. I've noticed slight variations among different models and eras of production of the Model 70 but the basic parts and orientations are the same. Most all Model 70s, Mauser-based designs and Mausers of various flavors have similar specs for protrusion of ejector in front of bolt face. I think too much protrusion may cause both loading and ejection timing issues and too little protrusion won't eject the cartridges at the right timing or angle during rearward bolt travel. This rifle has an ejector protrusion of .175" out from bolt face. The protrusion is a result of both the length of the bolt stop and the ejector. That distance seems within the average range for most crf actions that have a "standing" ejector.

 

[postoak]

Another good photo fourfive8.

What is labeled there as "solid part of receiver" is what I have been calling the lower bolt support.

That little line in red -- it marks the distance from the bolt face to the lower bolt support front face. Much up thread I was wondering if that gap was supposed to be there, or if the bolt face was supposed to be in line, vertically, with the lower bolt support. From the photos I've seen it is normal for the gap to be there.

Again, I don't think this has anything to do with the ejector as mine moves down freely when pressed. But also, when I remove the bolt and look in from the rear I can see the second cartridge doesn't sit on top of the ejector but rather is stopped from going further back by the front face of the ejector.

Now, look to the right of the ejector at where the lower rail narrows down. THAT is where cartridges stick if I have pushed them all the way back, I believe.

I think most people haven't had the problems loading (which presented as being problems feeding at first) because they haven't tried pushing the second cartridge all the way to the rear to where it bears against the front of the ejector.

It makes so much sense to me now. Put the cartridge on top of the lower rail -- push it all the way until it won't go any further back (the ejector has stopped its backward motion), press down anywhere on the back one inch of the side of the cartridge case and the cartridge won't go down into the magazine. This is either normal or it is not but I'd like someone with a Model 70 in .416 RM to try that and I doubt anyone reading this thread has one besides me. Even if they have one it might be a NH or FNSC and they may be made a little differently.

If it isn't normal then either the ejector on my rifle isn't coming to the front enough or the lower bolt rail hasn't been extended back quite enough.

 

[fourfive8]

Yes that concave cut-out is the milled end of the left side rail. It should correspond/ line up with and allow the base of the 2nd cartridge to be pushed down into the magazine. And yes that red line in the photo is the distance the bolt travels past the top edge of the ramp (you call the bolt head support). That over travel helps prevent the short stroke type jam in these types of crf actions. I have seen these where the bolt face lines up with that rear edge of the rear magazine ramp (bolt support) and some where the bolt face extends even farther to the rear and creates even more over hang than the one in the photo. Again, the bolt stop length is what determines that amount of over hang and also determines how much of the ejector protrudes from the bolt face assuming same ejector is used.

I think the front of the ejector, the milled cut-out of the left rail and the front edge of the rear magazine ramp (bolt support) should all be fairly closely lined up - perpendicularly. Being lined up or close to lined up should minimize potential "catches" when loading the magazine- especially when loading the 2nd cartridge which is pushed to the left side by the 1st cartridge and rests against and under the left side rail.

Both the 375 and the 416 Rem Mag in post 64 Win 70s would be similar if not nearly identical. Both are designed for a max cartridge length of 3.6". The one FN Win 70 I've owned and shot, I no longer have. The major difference I noticed between that FN rifle and all the pre and post 64 crf Model 70s was of course the different trigger.

I've added another labeled pic for clarity of terms we're using

 

[postoak]

Well, I wouldn't call that a ramp. To me the ramp is at the front end of the magazine and aids the cartridge in going in to the chamber. It doesn't seem to "ramp" the cartridge here. It merely determines how far back the cartridge on the right side can go.

And yes, it is the milled out portion of the rail that is preventing the cartridge from going into the magazine if the cartridges on the left side are slid all the way back to hit the face of the ejector.

Here are two photos. The first is a right side cartridge. You can see backward motion is stopped by the lower bolt race front face. The second is a left side cartridge. Here, backward motion is stopped by the front face of the ejector.

I find that if I load the cartridges with them not pushed all the way back and then slide them all the way back once they are below the rail, then everything is fine. Although it isn't necessary to push them all the way back, it can't hurt if I have time, and may make just the slightest difference in smooth feeding, although even without doing it the rifle has super-smooth feeding.

 

[fourfive8]

Tough to take pics of this area, huh!
Here's a different crf. This is a 450 Watts, MRC 99. It is a hybrid between a Win 70 and a Mauser. There is no bevel (ramp) milled into the front face of the "bolt head support" and it is a bit narrower. But you'll notice the three main "players" that control rearward movement of a cartridge as it is loaded into the magazine are the same and show good perpendicular alignment- the bolt head support boss, the ejector and the left rail cut-out. This action also loads and cycles flawlessly. FYI for comparison, the 450 Watts is simply a slightly longer 458 Lott. It will not be as tapered as a 375 so is more straight-walled thus similar to the 416 Rem Mag.