Hunting: What Is It?

[Jfet]

Hunting: What is it?


In the Hunter Safety Course, I teach at my high school there is a section that discusses the six stages of hunter development. This is the course developed by the Outdoor Tomorrow Foundation and the Dallas Safari Club. These six stages include the following:


1. Shooting Stage: This is where the priority is getting off a shot. This can lead to bad decisions that endanger others.

2. Limiting-Out Stage: Success is defined by bagging the limit.

3. Trophy Stage: Hunter is selective and determines success by quality rather than quantity.

4. Method Stage: Process of hunting becomes the focus. Hunter may still want to limit-out but places higher priority on how it’s accomplished.

5. Sportsman Stage: Success measured by total experience.

6. Give-Back Stage: Part of the process of becoming a true, responsible sportsman is becoming involved in efforts to make hunting a respected sport. That includes teaching proper knowledge and skills to others, working with landowners, and cooperating with wildlife officials.


I have had a student refer to these 6 steps as the process of becoming a Master Jedi Hunter.


I tell my students that we all go through these steps. It is imperative that we get through step 1 very quickly. It is ok through your hunting life to revisit the other 5 steps. However, steps 5 and 6 are where the true joy of hunting is experienced.


As hunters and members of AH we are currently involved amongst ourselves in a debate about what is hunting. Is shooting a lion that has been released hunting? Is shooting a whitetail deer from around a feeder hunting? Is shooting an elephant after miles of walking hunting? These are questions that have been discussed in North America since mid-1800’s. They came to fruition with George Bird Grinnell and Theodore Roosevelt forming the Boone and Crockett Club. It was Grinnell and his magazine Forrest and Stream along with his many books on hunting that was at the fore front of changing how North Americans viewed hunting. Grinnell’s mission was to change us from market hunters to sports hunters. From full exploitation of wildlife to sustainable conservation of wildlife.


Let us continue with this debate. It will make us better hunters. Let us remember that we are on the same side. In the end, we need to all be able to sit together at the campfire and enjoy each other’s company.


My hope is that the individual that killed the croc in the documentary Trophy will watch it and see the difference between his hunt and Phillip Glass’s hunt and will choose to emulate Philip.

 

[Royal27]

What a great post!

I love the stages in particular and agree, we all go through them.

I've been pretty clear in the past that I don't believe in the "if it's legal we should support it" philosophy, not totally. The croc in Trophy is a perfect example. I don't support that hunt and it wasn't "hunting" in my opinion, although it seemed perfectly legal. I'm not going to track the guy down and put insults on his FB page, but I won't sit quietly either. If someone asks me my opinion on it directly, I will tell them. Ethics belong to a person, but I don't believe that means they shouldn't be discussed. To me, it's all about presentation. I need to explain why a different way has better results, not tell a person why their way is wrong. then, they can make their own decision.

I also tend to think that where you are as a hunter and the experience you have helps to decide whether it was a hunt or shoot, although this is admittedly a judgment call. Here is an example:

A young kid taking their first deer from a blind in front of a feeder. That's a hunt! Me doing the same thing (and I still do it at times), that's a shoot. I haven't "hunted" anything. I waited for it and shot it. Now to make things more complicated I have no issue telling someone I'm "going hunting" when I'm actually shooting.

I think we all owe it to ourselves to look at these six stages and ask ourselves honestly where we are within them, and where we want to be personally. I also believe that we will move up and down the stages and that it isn't a straight-line progression and may even vary by species.

great stuff....

 

[Hogpatrol]

To your #6, I would add sharing the harvest programs. With our state's setup, a butcher processes it into ground meat and packs it in five pound blocks where it is given to local food banks. A side benefit is you are entered in to a drawing for a gift card to Cabela's. As far as working with landowners, they might like some venison too.

 

[Jfet]

Oh my! I did not add that picture to my original post. To the moderator that did add it "Thank You" We put Gus down in November of 2017. She was the best blood pressure dog I ever owned. After a really bad day she would come and set her chin on your knee and you could feel your body return to what is right.

That picture is one of the best pictures I have of her. That hunt is one of my favorites. Yes, the deer was taken near a feeder but listen to the rest of the story. We would be hunting in Africa for the first time after this deer season. I had chosen to try to emulate some of the hunting techniques I had seen on the African hunting shows. The permanent blind for this feeder is to the north. Our winds primarily are out of the south. We don't hunt this blind often but it is in a great spot. I can never get my brother-in-law and father-in-law together at the right time to move this blind. That year I set up my double bull blind to the east of the feeder. I really couldn't see the feeder clearly from its location but I was able to view the major trail that the deer travel whether they were going to the feeder or not. I brushed in the blind just like they do for a leopard hunt over bait. It would be the first hunt that I used my new Winchester Model 70 .375 H&H.

That morning was foggy and as the fog cleared deer appeared all around me. It was to my right that this buck appeared. He was 40 yards away. I had to place my shot through the brush just like shots I would take in Africa the next June. He was a typical mature 8pt. In other circumstances I may have passed on him. In those circumstances he became a trophy and it was a hunt. I went back to camp to get help to load the deer into my truck and I brought Gus with me. When we got back to the deer I pulled out my camera and started taking pictures like they do in Africa and Gus posed for a great picture.

 

[IdaRam]

@Jfet , a couple of great posts. Thank you.

 

[Hunting Sailor]

Great subject that brings many valid points to the table.
Discussing benefits of one’s view usually works better in the end than telling how bad another one’s view is.

//Gus

PS, Love the picture of your dog and I love that you named her Gus. I’ve got a female Lab, her name is Sam...

 

[cpr0312]

Some good points there, thanks for sharing this!

 

[cagkt3]

Great post. Ethics of hunting are a very tricky subject. Be interested to see what kind of discussion we have.

 

[Jfet]

To your #6, I would add sharing the harvest programs. With our state's setup, a butcher processes it into ground meat and packs it in five pound blocks where it is given to local food banks. A side benefit is you are entered in to a drawing for a gift card to Cabela's. As far as working with landowners, they might like some venison too.

Hunters for the Hungry is a big program in Texas. I am sure there are similar programs through out the U.S. and in other countries. Each of the 6steps make up their own slide in the notes and it usually takes me an entire 50 minutes to get through those 6 slides. Lot's of stories to be told as I trace my progress through those steps for my students. For those of y'all who are wondering, I have 25 class periods to teach hunter safety. It works out to a 5 week unit.

 

[Jfet]

Hunting whitetail deer in Texas or at least on the 3BH Ranch.

When you discuss Texas, water is your first concern. In East Texas you get on average 45 inches of rain a year but as you move west it gets less and less. In Throckmorton county which is 150 miles west of Dallas, an average year is 25 inches. In 2015 and 2016 we received 90 inches of rain combined. In 2017 it was a normal year. Do the math and you will see what we are in for in the next 5 years to reach our average.

Texas is almost all privately owned land. There is very little public lands to hunt on. Key concept "Don't Trespass! Its TEXAS!" Texas has a population of 39 million people. The vast majority of them are found in Dallas/Fort Worth, Houston, Austin, and San Antonio. I drive 180 miles from my driveway to the main gate of the 3BH Ranch every time I go. I am fortunate that my father-in-law owns the ranch. Since I am the father of his grandsons it is acceptable for me to hunt on the ranch. Provide of course any labor that is required to maintain the ranch is provided by me. This may be the reason my son's live in Arkansas and Tennessee.

Why do we use deer feeders? Its tradition!

I remember catching flack from my cousins in Alabama about using deer feeders in the 1970's. According to them real hunters went out and stalked their prey. I have noticed as they have moved off the farms and have become doctors, lawyers, teachers, and office workers they now hunt with feeders.

My brother-in-law, who by the way does share in the labor, is a classic example. His career allowed him time to hunt on the ranch only once this year. I on the other hand as a teacher had 7 straight days at Thanksgiving and 10 straight days over the Christmas holidays. Those days when I had the ranch to myself it was spot and stalk. Those days when there was group of us then it was sit in the blind and see what comes to the feeder. This year was an amazing year we harvested 7 mature bucks. 3 of them were monsters. All of the big ones were shot while chasing does by the feeders. I have pictures of those big bucks coming to the feeders but never in the daylight. They only came because they were focused on girls. Fortunately, one of those big buck was taken by my brother-in-law.

Feeders are a pain in the ass. If the cows don't turn them over, then the raccoons are tearing up your motors and wiring. The pigs will tear up the fencing you put around the feeder to keep the cows out. When you open the barrels to put in feed be ready with the wasp spray. Rattlesnakes love to curl up at the base of your feeders in August. Getting 5 to 6 50lbs bags of corn 10 feet up to the top of the feeder when its 105 degrees and doing that for 7 feeders is pleasant.

The above description is what most hunters in Texas experience. Those big fancy places with the 5star lodges is not the norm. When you come to deer camp Texas you will probably sleep in a very well used travel trailer. Don't scare the mice out they will keep you warm when its 15 degrees outside and some Canadian forgot to close the gate and the wind is blowing 20mph. Most hunters lease the land they hunt. Most ranchers don't want you walking around their property and mistaking their cows for a deer. The feeder brings out the deer for very easy identification. You know the deer is going to be there for a few minutes and you can take your time and make sure of your shot. The other reality of deer hunting in Texas is that you will loose your lease. Hunter/land owner relationship is vital for a long term lease.

If a PH was to put me in a blind overlooking a waterhole in Africa for a shot on plains game I would politely decline. If a guide were to put me in a tree overlooking bait for bears I would decline. If a PH put me in a blind to hunt a leopard over bait sign me up.

Why do you hunt the way you hunt?

 

[cls]

1. Shooting Stage: This is where the priority is getting off a shot. This can lead to bad decisions that endanger others.

2. Limiting-Out Stage: Success is defined by bagging the limit.

3. Trophy Stage: Hunter is selective and determines success by quality rather than quantity.

4. Method Stage: Process of hunting becomes the focus. Hunter may still want to limit-out but places higher priority on how it’s accomplished.

5. Sportsman Stage: Success measured by total experience.

6. Give-Back Stage: Part of the process of becoming a true, responsible sportsman is becoming involved in efforts to make hunting a respected sport. That includes teaching proper knowledge and skills to others, working with landowners, and cooperating with wildlife officials.

We teach the same here in Alberta.
Too bad some people never move out of the first 2 stages (ie. croc hunter)

 

[Docpk]

Hunting whitetail deer in Texas or at least on the 3BH Ranch.

When you discuss Texas, water is your first concern. In East Texas you get on average 45 inches of rain a year but as you move west it gets less and less. In Throckmorton county which is 150 miles west of Dallas, an average year is 25 inches. In 2015 and 2016 we received 90 inches of rain combined. In 2017 it was a normal year. Do the math and you will see what we are in for in the next 5 years to reach our average.

Texas is almost all privately owned land. There is very little public lands to hunt on. Key concept "Don't Trespass! Its TEXAS!" Texas has a population of 39 million people. The vast majority of them are found in Dallas/Fort Worth, Houston, Austin, and San Antonio. I drive 180 miles from my driveway to the main gate of the 3BH Ranch every time I go. I am fortunate that my father-in-law owns the ranch. Since I am the father of his grandsons it is acceptable for me to hunt on the ranch. Provide of course any labor that is required to maintain the ranch is provided by me. This may be the reason my son's live in Arkansas and Tennessee.

Why do we use deer feeders? Its tradition!

I remember catching flack from my cousins in Alabama about using deer feeders in the 1970's. According to them real hunters went out and stalked their prey. I have noticed as they have moved off the farms and have become doctors, lawyers, teachers, and office workers they now hunt with feeders.

My brother-in-law, who by the way does share in the labor, is a classic example. His career allowed him time to hunt on the ranch only once this year. I on the other hand as a teacher had 7 straight days at Thanksgiving and 10 straight days over the Christmas holidays. Those days when I had the ranch to myself it was spot and stalk. Those days when there was group of us then it was sit in the blind and see what comes to the feeder. This year was an amazing year we harvested 7 mature bucks. 3 of them were monsters. All of the big ones were shot while chasing does by the feeders. I have pictures of those big bucks coming to the feeders but never in the daylight. They only came because they were focused on girls. Fortunately, one of those big buck was taken by my brother-in-law.

Feeders are a pain in the ass. If the cows don't turn them over, then the raccoons are tearing up your motors and wiring. The pigs will tear up the fencing you put around the feeder to keep the cows out. When you open the barrels to put in feed be ready with the wasp spray. Rattlesnakes love to curl up at the base of your feeders in August. Getting 5 to 6 50lbs bags of corn 10 feet up to the top of the feeder when its 105 degrees and doing that for 7 feeders is pleasant.

The above description is what most hunters in Texas experience. Those big fancy places with the 5star lodges is not the norm. When you come to deer camp Texas you will probably sleep in a very well used travel trailer. Don't scare the mice out they will keep you warm when its 15 degrees outside and some Canadian forgot to close the gate and the wind is blowing 20mph. Most hunters lease the land they hunt. Most ranchers don't want you walking around their property and mistaking their cows for a deer. The feeder brings out the deer for very easy identification. You know the deer is going to be there for a few minutes and you can take your time and make sure of your shot. The other reality of deer hunting in Texas is that you will loose your lease. Hunter/land owner relationship is vital for a long term lease.

If a PH was to put me in a blind overlooking a waterhole in Africa for a shot on plains game I would politely decline. If a guide were to put me in a tree overlooking bait for bears I would decline. If a PH put me in a blind to hunt a leopard over bait sign me up.

Why do you hunt the way you hunt?

How is it different shooting the deer at the feeder vs. shooting the plains game at the watering hole or the bear at the bait? Please explain.

 

[Jfet]

How is it different shooting the deer at the feeder vs. shooting the plains game at the watering hole or the bear at the bait? Please explain.

There is not a difference.

I will readily admit that hunting over feeders from blinds may not put us from Texas on the purest ethical grounds. If we made blinds and feeders illegal in Texas then a huge part of our hunting population would stop hunting. I am not sure the hunting world could stand that loss. What do you think?

 

[Docpk]

Your honesty is refreshing.

 

[billc]

How what hunting is has changed and not for the better in my mind. Hunting when I grew up and still to your avg hunter in the states is. Getting a weapon and hitting the woods, fields or waterway to go after what ever game was in season. You went to kill something and more often then not made it in to food for your family. I would bet still more people hunting in the states still look at it as this. They tend to not just talk or join groups but hunt.

You may hunt a cornfield which was the bait to bring animals in but it was not put there for that reason really. You may drive around some if hunting big areas outwest as that increased your odds to see game. To some that is not hunting now because they have hunted africa or think they need to say something different to fit in.

But then some of the same guys who look down at some of the above will do it this way and say they hunted. Go buy the best gun and hunting gear they can. Then hire a Ph to find there game for them follow them around like a puppy. Then when the Ph tells them which one to take they shoot. That makes them a great white hunter because they hunted africa now. Kind of crazy when you think about it how so many guys really are shooters and not hunters depending on how you see it.

To me I dont care if I am guided or out by myself. When I take my gun or bow out I am hunting and then shooting trying to kill something. I know everyone likes to say the kill is all but a small part but if that was so true some more people would just be using a camera. I wish guys would just stop over thinking what hunting is because there is many ways to look at what hunting is in the end.

Hunting turns in to shooting and that can be sitting in a blind waiting for the game to show. Could be walking 10 miles after sitting down and using bino's to search for your game. Could also be just driving down the road and on your way spotting something to go after. If your for hunting any of the above is hunting.

My favorite hunting is chasing elk and that at the end will normally equal well over 50 miles of walking in a week. Great fun and I love it. My next favorite is buying birds that get stocked for us to hunt. I love this because my son loves it and gets such a joy out of it. Not how I grew up hunting birds but now a days the way we do it out here and we hunt them down and shoot them. I have also fell in love with hunting africa and raised , wild following a ph or sitting in a blind it is all hunting to me.

 

[Jfet]

How what hunting is has changed and not for the better in my mind. Hunting when I grew up and still to your avg hunter in the states is. Getting a weapon and hitting the woods, fields or waterway to go after what ever game was in season. You went to kill something and more often then not made it in to food for your family. I would bet still more people hunting in the states still look at it as this. They tend to not just talk or join groups but hunt.

You may hunt a cornfield which was the bait to bring animals in but it was not put there for that reason really. You may drive around some if hunting big areas outwest as that increased your odds to see game. To some that is not hunting now because they have hunted africa or think they need to say something different to fit in.

But then some of the same guys who look down at some of the above will do it this way and say they hunted. Go buy the best gun and hunting gear they can. Then hire a Ph to find there game for them follow them around like a puppy. Then when the Ph tells them which one to take they shoot. That makes them a great white hunter because they hunted africa now. Kind of crazy when you think about it how so many guys really are shooters and not hunters depending on how you see it.

To me I dont care if I am guided or out by myself. When I take my gun or bow out I am hunting and then shooting trying to kill something. I know everyone likes to say the kill is all but a small part but if that was so true some more people would just be using a camera. I wish guys would just stop over thinking what hunting is because there is many ways to look at what hunting is in the end.

Hunting turns in to shooting and that can be sitting in a blind waiting for the game to show. Could be walking 10 miles after sitting down and using bino's to search for your game. Could also be just driving down the road and on your way spotting something to go after. If your for hunting any of the above is hunting.

My favorite hunting is chasing elk and that at the end will normally equal well over 50 miles of walking in a week. Great fun and I love it. My next favorite is buying birds that get stocked for us to hunt. I love this because my son loves it and gets such a joy out of it. Not how I grew up hunting birds but now a days the way we do it out here and we hunt them down and shoot them. I have also fell in love with hunting africa and raised , wild following a ph or sitting in a blind it is all hunting to me.

Recently, I have had the privilege to read the letters my dad wrote his mother. My granny did not throw anything away. She kept every letter that her children sent her. My dad's letters from the 1950's when he was in the navy were full of questions about how hunting season was going. He even sent money to help his father buy shotgun shells for bird season. If you are from the South you know "bird season" means quail. In the early 60's dad describes hunting deer in Texas. This is all before I was born. My dad did not take me hunting. I wonder did he loose interest because one of his main motivations for hunting was strictly for food. By the time I was old enough to go hunting he could more easily provide food by simply going to the grocery store. Baseball, basketball, and football were more recreational activities for him.

I am sure as the Boone and Crockett Club was establishing their concepts of fair chase many people were asking, "What are you thinking?!"

So what are ya'll thinking? Are you hunting when...

....you walk miles and miles?

...you use an extremely primitive hunting system?

...you bring families together and they work together to get food when they could just as easily go to the grocery store?

 

[Jfet]

There is a letter from my uncle during WW2 when he was stationed on Attu Island. Its part of the Aleutian Islands in Alaska. He was patrolling the beach when a Japanese submarine surfaced 300 yards from him. In the letter he claims that two well placed .30 caliber rounds from his M1 Garand sank the sub. Bullet placement is everything.

 

[Jfet]

Great subject that brings many valid points to the table.
Discussing benefits of one’s view usually works better in the end than telling how bad another one’s view is.

//Gus

PS, Love the picture of your dog and I love that you named her Gus. I’ve got a female Lab, her name is Sam...

Her full name was GusGus. She was named after the mouse in Disney's Cinderella. It is always amazing the placed your children will take you.

 

[Jfet]

We teach the same here in Alberta.
Too bad some people never move out of the first 2 stages (ie. croc hunter)

We just have to encourage them. We can't kill them. I've been in education long enough to have several former students that I wanted to remove from the world come back to visit with me. They turned out good.

 

[008]

Hunting is what we make it imo.

At its essence, the goal is to secure as many calories as you can, while expending the least possible. From a lizard, to a lion, to a human, meat is sustenance.

In 2018, for those of us discussing hunting on an internet board, it’s also a sport, a hobby, and/or a passion.

Geography, game, age, experience, socioeconomic status, tools, physical acumen or handicap, education, exposure, and personal ethics all contribute to our definition and should all be used as context when judging other’s decisions.