Forend Rifle Strap for Support Hand

BeeMaa

AH legend
Joined
Jun 11, 2017
Messages
3,057
Reaction score
5,365
Location
Alexandria, VA USA
Media
104
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
NRA Life Member, SCI
Hunted
Eastern US & RSA
I'm looking for a piece of gear or kit.
Not sure what it is called or where to get it.
I was watching a YouTube video when I saw it.
The closest name I can come up with is...
Forend Rifle Strap for the Support Hand.
In the attached video at the 0:35 second mark you can see them.
Each one of the rifles has one.
If anyone has used them or knows what they are, I'd appreciate a little help.
They look very useful for off-hand shooting and driven hunts.
 

BeeMaa

AH legend
Joined
Jun 11, 2017
Messages
3,057
Reaction score
5,365
Location
Alexandria, VA USA
Media
104
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
NRA Life Member, SCI
Hunted
Eastern US & RSA
I'm not about to stir that pot.
CRF/PF extraction can wait for another day.
 

CoElkHunter

AH legend
Joined
Nov 3, 2018
Messages
3,050
Reaction score
3,713
Location
Colorado
Media
19
I’ll take the semi auto for a driven hunt. I don’t own one in a big game hunting caliber, but it sure looked slick!
 

Hogpatrol

Silver supporter
AH ambassador
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
6,341
Reaction score
14,662
Location
Delaware, USA
Media
76
Articles
4
Member of
Atglen Sportsmen's Club, NRA ,SCCFSA,
Hunted
RSA, DE, NJ, PA, KS, TX, ME
A quick cuff sling is another option.
 

BigSteve57

AH enthusiast
Joined
Sep 10, 2013
Messages
460
Reaction score
568
Location
MD USA, sadly.
Media
36
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
SCI, NRA, Local gun clubs & shooting range.
Hunted
USA(GA,MD,MT,PA,TN), Namibia
I'm coming at this from the standpoint of competition shooting where there is simply no limit to the accuracy/precision you would desire. Offhand shooting on a driven hunt may not have the same demands.

I shoot with slings all the time (military, hasty and Safari Ching). The military sling is under a fair amount of tension, the others much less so. My service rifles I use in competition change point of impact with sling use. The least change is my modern AR-15 with a match free-floating barrel. The worst is my Inland Carbine; point of impact is very sling tension dependent at least for me. Both these rifles attach the front part on the sling on the fore-end but the carbine does not have a free floating barrel.

Note that the stud onto which the sling attaches on the front of their rifles is on the stock fore-end. The sling attachment for my Blaser R8 Safari barrels is on the barrel itself. A sling under tension attached on the barrel would change point of impact, at least I would recommend to do a bit of experimentation to see how much change. It might be very sling-tension dependent but from the video it doesn't look like a lot of tension so you might be OK with these.

My Blaser R8 Safari barrels border on sewer pipe strength however I would still want to do that experimentation for change in point of impact vs sling tension. For what its worth, I don't shoot my Blaser R8 with a sling. EDIT: with a sling under tension.

I would recommend being mindful of sling use on a rifle that does not attach to the stock and have a free-floating barrel.
 

BeeMaa

AH legend
Joined
Jun 11, 2017
Messages
3,057
Reaction score
5,365
Location
Alexandria, VA USA
Media
104
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
NRA Life Member, SCI
Hunted
Eastern US & RSA
@BigSteve57
I too have the Blaser R8 Safari (22mm) barrels.
However, I added a sling swivel stud to the stock.
I don't like having the sling attach to the barrel.
As you stated, under tension it can change POI.
My sling is attached to the stud on the stock.
 

BigSteve57

AH enthusiast
Joined
Sep 10, 2013
Messages
460
Reaction score
568
Location
MD USA, sadly.
Media
36
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
SCI, NRA, Local gun clubs & shooting range.
Hunted
USA(GA,MD,MT,PA,TN), Namibia
@BigSteve57
I too have the Blaser R8 Safari (22mm) barrels.
However, I added a sling swivel stud to the stock.
I don't like having the sling attach to the barrel.
As you stated, under tension it can change POI.
My sling is attached to the stud on the stock.
I've been really considering doing this. Did your rifle come this way or did you modify it?
 

BeeMaa

AH legend
Joined
Jun 11, 2017
Messages
3,057
Reaction score
5,365
Location
Alexandria, VA USA
Media
104
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
NRA Life Member, SCI
Hunted
Eastern US & RSA
I've been really considering doing this. Did your rifle come this way or did you modify it?
No, my stock is the PH stock that didn't come with one.
Van at Top Dog Guns Global hooked me up.
He pulled one off one of his in stock rifles and sent it.
Said he would order one from Blaser when the C19 restrictions lifted.
 

BeeMaa

AH legend
Joined
Jun 11, 2017
Messages
3,057
Reaction score
5,365
Location
Alexandria, VA USA
Media
104
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
NRA Life Member, SCI
Hunted
Eastern US & RSA
I made my own out of some 550 cord.
Not sure I like it, just seems to get in the way.
Trying to use it with and without sticks didn't feel natural.

Another piece of gear that would end up in a drawer.
I'll keep it simple and go without this strap.

Thanks to those who looked and contributed.
 

BeeMaa

AH legend
Joined
Jun 11, 2017
Messages
3,057
Reaction score
5,365
Location
Alexandria, VA USA
Media
104
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
NRA Life Member, SCI
Hunted
Eastern US & RSA
I wouldnt go that specialised.

In my driven hunts, I just help myself using the standard sling, in this way:


You can try, and see how this works
I appreciate it.
Having been in the US military, I've been exposed to this.
Used this method (and a few others) on several occasions.
You are right about not being too specialized.
Keep it simple, light and fast is the way to go.
 

BigSteve57

AH enthusiast
Joined
Sep 10, 2013
Messages
460
Reaction score
568
Location
MD USA, sadly.
Media
36
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
SCI, NRA, Local gun clubs & shooting range.
Hunted
USA(GA,MD,MT,PA,TN), Namibia
I wouldnt go that specialised.

In my driven hunts, I just help myself using the standard sling, in this way:


You can try, and see how this works
This is what I call the hasty sling. I have used this approach MANY times hunting and on service rifles in competition (except offhand where it's not allowed in competition). It works. Just for fun, try shooting at a target prone with your rifle on a rest and then prone tightly "slung in". Do the same for seated. Compare results.
 

mark-hunter

AH legend
Joined
Aug 14, 2016
Messages
2,023
Reaction score
2,625
Media
25
Articles
2
Hunted
Namibia - Kalahari, Namibia - Khomas highland
This way of using sling in modern times is often fogotten.
Description of using sling in this way can be found in some older manuals. In old days, army trained sodiers to use sling in this way.

I use it frequently, every time in the hunting field, if situation dictates so. I found this first in some vintage books in my library, and then tried at the range. It worked. I continue using it since then.

Recenetly there was a local hunting competition, scoped rifle at 100 meters, roe deer paper target, with shooting from rest plus shooting standing position free style. (using sling was not banned - therefore - allowed)
I was on the job and couldn make it. (I felt terrible about it)
1st prize was new italian shotgun O/U.

One of my friends, (with not too much trigger time) applied for this competition.

I told him go there, and get that shotgun!
Are you crazy, he said! I cant make it first placement. I will be happy not to be last on the final score list!

Then I told him, to use the sling this way (i know almost no one use sling there in this way in my place, and the sling will give him advantage), and get some minimum training before the match.
And fit the sling on that rifle of yours!!! :)

Training he did, a week before the match (I think with less then 50 shots fired on the target, but using sling in this way, to get familiar)

Bottom line, he won the first prize.
Old school shooting.

Me?
Mentor! I am happy, almost like I did it! hehe
 

Pheroze

AH legend
Joined
Jul 6, 2013
Messages
4,032
Reaction score
4,698
Location
Ontario
Media
75
Articles
19
Hunting reports
USA/Canada
1
Member of
OFAH, DSC
Hunted
South Africa, Canada, USA
I'm looking for a piece of gear or kit.
Not sure what it is called or where to get it.
I was watching a YouTube video when I saw it.
The closest name I can come up with is...
Forend Rifle Strap for the Support Hand.
In the attached video at the 0:35 second mark you can see them.
Each one of the rifles has one.
If anyone has used them or knows what they are, I'd appreciate a little help.
They look very useful for off-hand shooting and driven hunts.
They look like padded orange loops that have been tied on. Interesting. I couldn't find it either. I am trying to figure out what it would be helpful for? I suppose reducing the bulk of a full sling but still allowing rearward pressure into the shoulder?
 

Nyati

AH ambassador
Joined
Jan 15, 2011
Messages
7,977
Reaction score
3,455
Location
Madrid, Spain
Media
117
Hunting reports
Africa
6
Europe
1
Member of
RFEC, RFETO
Hunted
Spain, Finland, RSA ( KwaZulu Natal, Limpopo, North West, Northern Cape, Free State ).
A military sling will work as well.

But make sure the length is right for a good fit.
 

BigSteve57

AH enthusiast
Joined
Sep 10, 2013
Messages
460
Reaction score
568
Location
MD USA, sadly.
Media
36
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
SCI, NRA, Local gun clubs & shooting range.
Hunted
USA(GA,MD,MT,PA,TN), Namibia
A military sling will work as well.

But make sure the length is right for a good fit.
Absolutely. A military sling with a bad fit (i.e. too tight or loose) will make matters worse. I learn this every service rifle match. ;)
 

bruce moulds

AH legend
Joined
Aug 10, 2018
Messages
2,841
Reaction score
4,096
I'm not about to stir that pot.
CRF/PF extraction can wait for another day.
it is nothing to do with crf vs pf.
controlled round feed is nothing to do with extraction, as the name suggests, but rather about feeding.
what we are talking about here is extracting power, and a 90 degree turnbolt has the most.
the power that is applied through the gearing here is unsurpassed.
a rem 700 has the same extracting power as a mauser98.
the size of the extractor claw gives the mauser an advantage in not ripping through the case rim or itself breaking.
that is why, and the guy recognizes this in the video clip, pressures should be kept lower in straight pull actions.
bruce.
 

BeeMaa

AH legend
Joined
Jun 11, 2017
Messages
3,057
Reaction score
5,365
Location
Alexandria, VA USA
Media
104
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
NRA Life Member, SCI
Hunted
Eastern US & RSA
it is nothing to do with crf vs pf.
controlled round feed is nothing to do with extraction, as the name suggests, but rather about feeding.
what we are talking about here is extracting power, and a 90 degree turnbolt has the most.
the power that is applied through the gearing here is unsurpassed.
a rem 700 has the same extracting power as a mauser98.
the size of the extractor claw gives the mauser an advantage in not ripping through the case rim or itself breaking.
that is why, and the guy recognizes this in the video clip, pressures should be kept lower in straight pull actions.
bruce.
I get it.
Thanks.
 

One Day...

Gold supporter
AH elite
Joined
Jan 7, 2018
Messages
1,328
Reaction score
3,680
Website
www.huntershillsafaris.co.za
Media
381
Articles
1
Hunting reports
Africa
3
Member of
PHASA
Hunted
Europe, America, Canada, Africa
Understanding the physics of it...

Hmmmm............. as much as I hate to be raining on Norma Academy's parade, the reality is that a hand loop like this is entirely useless, and BeeMaa's conclusion "another piece of gear that would end up in a drawer" is correct...

Here is why:

When shooting a rifle, the butt rests on the shoulder. This contact point is also the pivot point upon which the stock rests, relatively stably, as the muzzle wobbles.

The support hand that holds the rifle forearm is also attached to the same shooter's shoulder that holds the rifle butt. Therefore, the rifle and the support hand are free to wobble together because they only have one shared attachment and pivot point at the shoulder. Tying the hand to the forearm with a hand loop does not change any of this.

When a shooter uses an elbow rest, whether it be on the ground when shooting prone, on the knee when shooting kneeling or seating, or on a support (e.g. tree branch or rock) when shooting standing, a second contact point is created half way between the butt and the muzzle. However, the elbow itself being flexible, it constitutes another pivot point, and this allows the muzzle to still wobble, although less than if the elbow is not used, because the second pivot point is now closer to the muzzle.

The purpose - and the physics - of the shooting sling, whether it be a competition sling wrapped around the bicep close to the shoulder joint, or whether it is a military or hasty sling wrapped under the bicep close to the shoulder joint, are:
  1. to use the relatively stable shoulder as the first point of a support triangle for the rifle forearm;
  2. to use the fairly stable elbow anchor point as the second point of a support triangle for the rifle forearm;
  3. to create a mechanical link between the shoulder and the sling attachment point so that the third point of the triangle, the sling attachment point, is stable, being forced into a fixed position at the end of the fixed-distance arm and the fixed-distance sling.
With a sling under proper tension, the butt of the rifle is at a relatively stable point on the shoulder; the elbow is at a fairly stable point on the ground, on a knee, or on some form of support; and the support hand is a fairly stable support point at the end of the arm and the end of the sling.

This is why, as BigSteve57 and Nyati rightly emphasize, the sling must be properly tensioned. If it is too long and loose, it does not retain the support hand from moving forward and does not stabilize the third point of the support triangle; and if it is too short, it bring the third point of the triangle too close to the second point and reduces the stability of the support triangle.

Understanding the shooting sling.JPG


Once the physics of the application of forces in the sling technique are understood, it is easy to conclude that:
  1. Using a sling without an elbow rest is virtually useless, save for the psychological placebo effect;
  2. Using a hand loop that only involves the support hand is completely useless, save for the psychological placebo effect.
In both cases, the rifle and support arm still wobble freely around the shoulder pivot point...

And obviously, as previously noted, attaching the sling to the barrel defeats the purpose because a properly tensioned sling will flex even competition bull barrels...

:)
 
Last edited:

Forum statistics

Threads
37,718
Messages
721,500
Members
67,488
Latest member
EvanAbg499
 

 

 

Latest profile posts

pam308 wrote on TOBY458's profile.
Just saw your listing for a winchester 70 458. Is it still for sale? I want it!!! pam308
flatwater bill wrote on john stroud's profile.
Leopard Legend....................Hi John.............I see that you have not visited AH in awhile. Hope all is well. I am looking for a hunt in Namibia..............would like to ask a few questions about your hunt.............all the best..............................Bill
Cervus elaphus wrote on Bob Nelson 35Whelen's profile.
Hi Bob, how's things going in Wyong?. Down your way a couple of years back but haven't been in NSW since Ebor for the fishing. just getting over some nasty storms up here in Qld, seeing the sun for the first time in a few days. I'm going to NZ in the spring and hope to clean up a few buns while there and perhaps shake the spiders out of my old .303LE (currently owned by my BIL). Cheers Brian
A couple pictures of the sable i chased for miles in Mozambique, Coutada 9!! We finally caught up to him and I had the trophy of a lifetime. Mokore Safaris, Doug Duckworth PH
sable Coutada 9.JPG
sable 2 - Coutada 9.JPG
Safari Dave wrote on egrmpty507's profile.
Did you purchase your hunt at a US SCI fundraiser?
 
Top