And if the brain shot presents itself, as you concede yourself, the TSX will do it just fine...
No, that is just not exactly true.......... There is a big difference between "Will do just Fine" and
"It Can"........... I concede only that in the very best of circumstances that a TSX "Can", I also stated that I had .224 caliber bullets that "Can"......... I also stated I had tested a 420 Cast Performance on an elephant head and it did, but just barely, and did not even exit side brain....... Can means possible, and many things are possible and many things would qualify as an Anomaly and far from the normal.
You misrepresent my statement. And, on my part, I should have stated as well, that "It Can under some perfect circumstances", I left you too much room to play word salad. My faul
lso have some .224 caliber bullets that can achieve the same goal, but that by no means makes it the GO TO Bullet for such activities. I once tested a 420 gr Cast performance on a side brain shot, "After Death" and it made it to the brain, and a couple of inches to the other side, did not exit. Does that make the 45/70 420 gr Cast Performance the Elephant Bullet of Choice? No, of course it does not.
So, what is the problem and what in the above is absurd or stupid? Pray do explain
The problem dear fellow is a simple matter of "Penetration".......... one is not always presented the "Perfect Shot" No expanding premium bullet, No 1st Generation or even 2cd Generation Trauma Inflicting CNC bullet can be counted on to get the amount of penetration and bone crunching that may be required on elephant. 1st and 2cd Gen CNC Trauma bullets such as Hammers, Maximus and Raptors nearly double the penetration in animal tissue over a TSX, but I personally would not count on that when life and limb might be on the line. Yes, I repeat over and over, it is Absurd to even consider this on elephant. However, if YOU believe in this concept, you may very well get away with it on your next elephant...... Especially considering your PH will take care of things if the S**T hits the fan, your PH will be loaded with SOLIDS..........
Emerging evidence from both professional culling and sport hunting in Africa seems to indicate that a TSX (or equivalent) penetrates as reliably an elephant skull, including from frontal shots, than any other solid, whether round or flat.
And, lets take a closer look at "Your Emerging Evidence from Professional Culling and sport hunting" Statement.........
I have hesitated writing this.
Recently 12 big bull elephant had to be destroyed, they had been badly burned in a fire.
A expertt PH was chosen to do the job. Caliber .458Lott bullet Barnes TSX all brain shots. Front or side shot one shot kills
I briefed through this thread and I did not find anymore information concerning this statement or shedding any light on the circumstances of it. I am quite sure that "Badly Burned" called for some emergency proceedures to dispatch, I can imagine all sorts of possibilities here as to bullet choices in an emergency situation, even to the possible point of using what you have with you? Or other possible scenarios, since nothing was explained further. I saw zero mention of "Sport Hunters" using TSX for elephant, and I saw no PH's that recommended using TSX on elephant. Now, I could have missed that somewhere, as stated I only briefed, if I did not see elephant, I did not give the post much concern......
Needless to say that Lon at @Tokoloshe Safaris is as real as it gets and that I would be more than careful about challenging his credibility
As to whether the "expert PH" he refers to, is a "stupid" or "absurd" "dude", I again would be very, very careful about that.
I can most certianly guarantee you that I myself have zero issues with calling out a PH that would recomment a Goober Client to use Barnes TSX, or any other expanding premium exclusively for elephant.... Yes I absolutely would and I would do it to his face as well......... PH.... Professional Hunter........ Any thing else is assumed only by the inexperienced shooters. Oh yes, I would have no qualms at all. I would say to their face....... "Absurd".........
But here is where you mislead once again in attempt to achieve your goals for using TSX.........
Here is what Lon at Tokoloshe said in the only other post I saw him make on this matter, in that thread...................
I hesitated mentioning, because Itcertainly would not be a practice I would recommend. Note, I was not present.
I repeat....... "Because it certainly would not be a practice I would recommend"
No experienced Elephant hunting PH would make that recommendation, end of story......
There is "No emerging Evidence"....... there is no recommendations made..........
You speak of double lung shot.... as I understand elephant lungs are attached, they do not collaspe when you poke holes in them. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I believe this to be true. A poke with a TSX is not going to be quite as devasting as you might think. And a poke through the lungs is not like a poke in the heart......... a lung shot elephant can do a lot of damage before giving up. I know this, as I have experienced it on one particular elephant. It was a mistake on my part, an angled shot that I thought would hit the heart, but I only caught the lungs. I ended up dispatching that elephant at the end of the barrel while on my back, pointed up into the chest of the elephant.... a 500 gr 500 caliber #13 Solid at 2400 fps busted the heart on that elephant, and I was just lucky he turned 90degrees before coming down.
This is what a proper designed FN Solid does to the heart......
The last elephant I shot in 2013 was another heart shot..... this was a nice bull elephant, we had made our way to 12 steps in front of him without being winded or seen, on one knee I was setting up for the perfect frontal brain shot, when the wind shifted and he started running from left to right in front of me, I dropped to the heart shot and was able to get two rounds off before he disappeared in the brush, we found him 25 yards in down and out. This was a 458 B&M 18 inch gun shooting a 450 gr CEB #13 Solid at 2200 fps, it fully penetrated and exited.
This elephant was a crop raider, and the second one taken on this trip. This was 2007, The first elephant was a classic Frontal Brain shot, and it was down and over executed properly. The second elephant was in the bottom of a dry river bed, about 25-30 yards out. Now, keep in mind, this is night time, it is dark..... The two PHs that are with me have a early Gen 1 or 2 night vision, they are doing the hunting. I am the shooter, I did not want the night vision to interfere with my vision when the lights came on....... they are directing me to where the elephants are, there are about 4-5 there. They tell me the location and how it is standing, when the light comes on, I have about 2 seconds to find my target and get the shot off. Lights come on, I find the target, presented only a heart shot, so I take it..... I am shooting a 50 B&M and a 510 gr JD/Lehigh Custom FN Solid at 2100 fps, at the first shot the elephant nearly goes down on his knees, but gathers himself up and I am looking to the rear of the elephant, I have about a 4-5 foot elevation advantage, so I am lookind down on him as he is running away, second shot goes in the top of the back and downward to the chest (next day after retrieving the heart we found two bullet holes, one from the angled side shot and the other from the rear, which would have been the second shot fired) The third shot hit another foot to the rear, this bullet was found in the chest cavity after traveling 7+ feet of elephant. The first shot of course exited, hitting the heart from the side, the second shot fired also exited the frontal chest after traveling 6+ feet or so and blowing a hole through the heart from the rear.........
This elephant only went about 30-40 yards before going down for good...........I have only brain shot two of my elephants, the rest were heart with the exception of one elephant I had to play backup to my friend with. We were close, around 12-15 steps, he tried frontal brain and missed, I stepped up from behind him and by that time the elephant had turned completely and I was looking at the root of his tail, I had read that this shot would take an elephant down, just up about 6 inches maybe more and it was spine, I took the shot and the elephant immediately dropped and I let my friend finish it from there.
In earlier years I had shot a few elephant all with Round Nose Barnes Solids....... Yes, they were, and they are still dead, but there is a big difference in RN and FN doing damage and hitting hard up front, RN does very little of either...... Poking holes is about all.
I guess that my perspective includes the fact that I do not believe that it is wise to pre-condition first-time elephant hunters to think that the only shot on elephant is the brain shot. That was fine for Walter Dalrymple Maitland Bell but his expertise and practice had nothing in common with the expertise and practice, or lack thereof, of the average modern elephant first-time, or few times, hunter, myself included.
@One Day... On this point we are in full agreement 100%. It is foolish to consider only a brain shot, and comes more from "Nostalgia" and over reading African Books. I have only shot 10 elephant, only two of those were brain shots, one side brain and one frontal. My son took an elephant with a side brain. The rest have been heart shots, with an exception or two....... One should take the shot given at the moment. A heart shot elephant will not go far, especially with a proper designed FN Solid.
No, I would not use any expanding, or trauma inflicting bullet on elephant....... there is just too much possibility that things won't go perfect........ But then, your PH will have your back with his Rifle loaded with Solids......... so do as you please, and best of luck to you in your endeavors. Only a well designed FN Solid can solve most issues and problems when the crap hits the fan..........
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