Does anyone reload 358 Norma Mag?

[Rule 303]

My 358 Norma kicks me worse than my 375H&H. My 358 Norma is on a pre 64 and my 375 is a l61r.

Most like due to the stock fit. I have found stock fit does more to reduce felt recoil than additional weight.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Had four red/white and black metal one pound cans of Norma 204 powder around forever, decided to build loads with it in my BRNO 98 Mauser action 358 Norma, the rifle has a three position Winchester type safety, 26 inch 12 twist barrel and sits in a synthetic stock, all metal is cerakoted black, it wears a matte finish 30mm 3-9 VX-R Leupold Firedot, perfect glass for this setup, a real all weather rig.

New Norma 358 NM brass
250gr Partitions
78grs Norma 204
CCI-250 primers
COL 3.300"
VEL 2809 fps

Have 50 rounds left to shoot and hunt out, when they're gone I'll neck size all 150 cases bumping the shoulders back 0.002"

Will then build all new loads with the 250gr Norma Oryx bullets and H-4350 powder, it will be awhile, the current loads are too accurate and hit too damn hard to waste on paper and rocks, a very capable, accurate and efficient cartridge.

@50Gunner
So the big Swede uses 14 grains more powder to get 100fps more than the Whelen
Me wonders if it is truely worth it.
Bob

 

[M48scout]

My 358 Norma kicks me worse than my 375H&H. My 358 Norma is on a pre 64 and my 375 is a l61r.

Do you happen to know the rifle weights for comparison? What contour barrel (approx) does your 358NM have relative to the 375? Thanks

 

[jruby]

I believe the big difference is the stock. The sako finnbear was designed to handle the 375. The winchester was originally chambered in 300H&H. The winchester was manufactured around 1948. The Sako appears to be about a pound and a half heavier.

 

[jruby]

@50Gunner
So the big Swede uses 14 grains more powder to get 100fps more than the Whelen
Me wonders if it is truely worth it.
Bob

I wonder what pressures your whelen is running at?

 

[50Gunner]

@50Gunner
So the big Swede uses 14 grains more powder to get 100fps more than the Whelen
Me wonders if it is truely worth it.
Bob

LOL, now come on Big Bob, are you sure you're not trickling 68 grains under those 250 grain 35 Whelen slugs?

Plus, Hells Bells, I had Norma powder, Norma brass, in a cartridge developed by Norma, I couldn't resist ; ]

BTW, traded a 5.56 ammo can full of 38 Special wadcutter ammunition I loaded for the whole rifle to an old guy for his grandkids to shoot back during the barack hussein obongo days of weapons and ammunition hysteria, he could no longer fire the rifle, I had peanuts in the ammunition.

 

[Rule 303]

I dare say Bob will get back to you when he reads this. Bob is using CFE223 powder from memory and this gets the Whelen up towards 358 Norma territory. It puts the Whelen in the same range as a 35Sambar (358 WSM)

 

[jruby]

I would argue the powder column is larger in the norma case. It would make sense to me if you can drive the 358 norma the same way.

 

[Rule 303]

I would argue the powder column is larger in the norma case. It would make sense to me if you can drive the 358 norma the same way.

I do not know if there are suitable powder for the 358Norma to do that. If you know somebody with Quickload or similar run the CFE223 and other CFE powders through it. We can't get CFE in Australia now but I would look at them for my Whelen, 35 Sambar, and 356.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I wonder what pressures your whelen is running at?

@jruby
According to load from a disc 52,000 cup.
I have no pressure signs and long case life, primer pockets are tight and I only use Remington brass.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I dare say Bob will get back to you when he reads this. Bob is using CFE223 powder from memory and this gets the Whelen up towards 358 Norma territory. It puts the Whelen in the same range as a 35Sambar (358 WSM)

@Rule 303
Definitely use CFE223 unless I'm loading 310 grainers, then it 2209/H4350.
I wonder what the Swede would do with 310s.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I do not know if there are suitable powder for the 358Norma to do that. If you know somebody with Quickload or similar run the CFE223 and other CFE powders through it. We can't get CFE in Australia now but I would look at them for my Whelen, 35 Sambar, and 356.

@Rule 303
Hodgson superformance is similar to H4381 and RL22 but with a different pressure curve. If you can use the former powders in the Swede then superformance should work and give it a boost.
Bob

 

[50Gunner]

I do not know if there are suitable powder for the 358Norma to do that. If you know somebody with Quickload or similar run the CFE223 and other CFE powders through it. We can't get CFE in Australia now but I would look at them for my Whelen, 35 Sambar, and 356.

LOL, Rule 303, Agreed, if I were to want to step on the gas with this 358 NM after the current loads are gone I'd look no further than 6.5 Staball powder, it is very compact and dense, you could get plenty in the case, slower burning than Norma 204 with the bonus of being temp stable.

But, 250 grains at the current 2800 fps, or even stepping up to 2850/2900 fps is like getting hit with a loaded semi at 55 mph or 70 mph, it's not going to matter, the intendeds are still gonna be screwed blued and tattooed.

 

[Rule 303]

50Gunner, I thought 250 grains bullet at 2800 was a bit anemic, so I made up a 358/338 RUM 250 at 3150. This makes it an easy 400 mt cartridge. That is just me wanting something flatter shooting and to see what it could do.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

50Gunner, I thought 250 grains bullet at 2800 was a bit anemic, so I made up a 358/338 RUM 250 at 3150. This makes it an easy 400 mt cartridge. That is just me wanting something flatter shooting and to see what it could do.

@Rule 303
How much powder are you using, 10 loads to the pound.
2,700fps is still a 400yard with a 3" 100yard setting. Only 24" low at that distance and still got 2,000fpe
At your speed good for another 200 or more and same energy out there.
What's the recoil figure apart from holy shit batman I felt that one go off.
Bob

 

[50Gunner]

50Gunner, I thought 250 grains bullet at 2800 was a bit anemic, so I made up a 358/338 RUM 250 at 3150. This makes it an easy 400 mt cartridge. That is just me wanting something flatter shooting and to see what it could do.

WOW! indeed 250grs at 3150 will pack a hell of a punch, I know of what you speak, have an old 338 cal wildcat round that boots 300grs out at 2900 fps, it hits very hard and accurate at ranges long past what one would ethically fire at game animals, it is simply grocery shopping with a rifle, not hunting.

Uh Oh, it's 0.010" per side too small, I know Big Bob35W is watching, I'll go put it back in the safe now ; ]

 

[Rule 303]

@Rule 303
How much powder are you using, 10 loads to the pound.
2,700fps is still a 400yard with a 3" 100yard setting. Only 24" low at that distance and still got 2,000fpe
At your speed good for another 200 or more and same energy out there.
What's the recoil figure apart from holy shit batman I felt that one go off.
Bob

Same as a 416 Rigby, 94grains AR2209. Recoil figures I do not know but does not kick as bad as the 416, lighter bullet. Recoil is very manageable, less than my 375H&H in a CZ550 but more than my 375H&H Rem 700, that is 2Ld lighter than the CZ.

The rifle is a Remington M17 and a Cam Hatcher stock. The stock is a good fit for me. With a 225 grain bullet at 3250fps, 2" high at 100 is 16" low at 400yards.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Same as a 416 Rigby, 94grains AR2209. Recoil figures I do not know but does not kick as bad as the 416, lighter bullet. Recoil is very manageable, less than my 375H&H in a CZ550 but more than my 375H&H Rem 700, that is 2Ld lighter than the CZ.

The rifle is a Remington M17 and a Cam Hatcher stock. The stock is a good fit for me. With a 225 grain bullet at 3250fps, 2" high at 100 is 16" low at 400yards.

@Rule 303
The Whelen 3" high at 100 is 24" at 400 with a 225 started out at 2,900fps with less powder and less recoil and still 2,000fpe. More than enough for this black duck
Bob

 

[CoElkHunter]

@358 Norma
When I make my 25 cases out of 303 brit cases I size the neck about quarter of an und. I move the shoulder forward a lot, blow the case out almost straight, give it a 35 degree shoulder. The neck starts out at .311 long and ends up .257" long so a very radical change. I anneal cases first and case loss is around 3%
Bob

Why don’t you just buy some once fired .30-06 cases for your .25-06 and be done with it? Neck em down and you’re good to go.

 

[Rule 303]

@Rule 303
The Whelen 3" high at 100 is 24" at 400 with a 225 started out at 2,900fps with less powder and less recoil and still 2,000fpe. More than enough for this black duck
Bob

Bob I don't have the CFE powder so my Whelen performance is below yours. I also like to play around with the odd wildcat just because I can. Recoil wise my 358/338RUM felt recoil is less then that of my first Whelen, a Rem 700 special run. The stock on that was bad. Even a 338 mag bloke said his 338 kicked less. Current 35 Whelen is a pussy cat recoil wise.