Cause of case head separation

I had a ruger 77 in 338 win mag.
the chamber was so large in diameter that fired cases blew out to the diameter of the belt!
they were obviously headspacing on the shoulder.!
another example of a "Monday morning" gun.
bruce.
 
I had a ruger 77 in 338 win mag.
the chamber was so large in diameter that fired cases blew out to the diameter of the belt!
they were obviously headspacing on the shoulder.!
another example of a "Monday morning" gun.
bruce.
That should have never left the production line! Scary!
 
Thankyou all for your replies so far.
@fourfive8 very good information.

I am shooting a tikka T3x in 30-06. I have 3 different loads worked up for this rifle, a cheap practice/plinking load using winchester brass and 2 "good" loads using lapua brass. I measured and remeasured the brass again last night and all came out .003 to .004 of shoulder bump. After looking at it again this morning I am not sure if it is case head separation or just a mark left by the die. Here is a couple of photos, let me know what you think.

View attachment 343897 View attachment 343899
Looks like a mark from the die to me. Most dies do not resize past the web IME.

What I do: I shoot some factory ammo just to break in me and the rifle on a new rifle to me. I measure and document the diameter at the web of different brands of ammo. This gives me a basis that if my loads expand more at the web and the velocity is higher than factory loads, I believe the pressure is too high. JMO

If, like your cut case photo, there is no thinning of brass at the web, it should be within the design parameters of the cartridge until you work the brass by reloading and shooting it more. Eventually it will stretch and get a thin area at the web.

Best of luck figuring this out!
 
Maybe I missed it but, how are determining the headspace measurement on your cases?
 
I load for a Tikka T3X 30-06 using a Redding FL die set (bushing dies). I took a pic of a couple of 5th fired Lapua brass (not yet resized). They look nothing like yours so I'm thinking something really is unusual. These are from full powder 180 and/or 200 grain reloads, btw.

Lapua 5th Fired 30-06 Brass.jpg
 
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I load for a Tikka T3X 30-06 using a Redding FL die set (bushing dies). I took a pic of a couple of 5th fired Lapua brass (not yet resized). They look nothing like yours so I'm thinking something really is unusual. These are from full powder 180 and/or 200 grain reloads, btw.

View attachment 344230

That actually looks very very similar to my lapua brass. I have just measured the difference between my lapua brass and my winchester brass and there is .005" of difference just at the web/rim, the winchester brass is smaller which would explain the more pronounced mark/ring on the winchester brass that is in my photo. Does this make sense?
 
Maybe just neck size only?
 
Probably just trash the WW brass and carry on, IMO.
 
All cases stretch and can separate over time.... just a matter of degree and the overall case life depends on which type of fatal degradation comes first type thing.

Three things usually in concert. One like you posted is excess headspace causes more rapid stretching thus more rapid path to separation. Another is pressure. At a certain pressure, brass begins to flow. It is getting pressed outward against the chamber walls and really the front part of the case, forward of the web, has only one direction to go... forward thus the stretching. The most common area to show that stretching and thinning is the junction of the web and body (the location of the shiny ring) and most common location of separation. One factor sometimes left out of the equation is cartridge design. Seems simple but fairly hard to describe and to some extent a matter of degree. Some designs tend to stretch more than others. Some of reason has to do with amount of headspace control in the design.

Another part of the equation is type and quality of brass... but best to leave that out of this discussion and usually not as great a factor as certainly the first two variables of design, headspace and pressure.

Interesting also is that in response to the necessary evil of some headspace for function, the case stretches in two directions. The sequence is usually lost in translation or in a form I often hear as misunderstood mechanics. The cartridge is sitting in the chamber. The headspace control is holding it from moving forward...(+/- the built-in sizing headspace required for basic rifle cycling function).... mostly but not completely. The firing pin strikes the primer. This is where the misunderstood mechanics begin. The firing pin simply does not have the impetus force available compared to the inertial mass of the cartridge plus the headspace control of the case to cause much if any excess or extra headspace issue. The primer on the other hand does have the energy to overcome that inertia mass of the cartridge and enough to over-run the headspace control of the cartridge. A case for example with a large, sharp shoulder may have enough headspace control to mitigate most of the primer force and the over-run will be minimal. Continuing on with the sequence of firing. The primer fires. The primer "wants" to back out of the case. Depending on mass of cartridge, charge in primer, type and amount of headspace control... the primer backs out against the bolt face simultaneous to the case moving forward to the headspace control and over-runs that control to some degree. The charge lights and comes up toward full pressure. Momentarily the front part of the case sticks to the chamber walls under the intense pressure. At the same time the head of the case is driven back against the bolt face, reseating the primer and stretching/thinning the case wall just forward of the web. The case depressurizes as the bullet leaves the muzzle and the spring-back in the brass allows the case to ever-so-slightly shrink back from the chamber walls and be extracted. With a normal load, the pressure was not excessive, the primer "looks" normal but the "hidden" stretching/thinning has been done.

If in doubt about how this sequence occurs, load a cartridge to relatively low pressure- maybe on the order of 25-30 kpsi. Seat the bullet deep enough to stay well clear of the lands. Clean all lube off the outside of the case and from within the chamber. Fire the round. If the pressure is enough to momentarily stick the upper case to the chamber walls but lower than required to stretch the case rearward to contact stop against the bolt face, the cumulative amount of headspace will show as a backed-out primer. That backed-out primer was not caused by firing pin impact force! :)

So, for example, your cases are sized for .003" headspace in your rifle and your case design allows an additional .oo3+ upon firing. The net cumulative headspace in that instance would be .006". Add to that the pressure component and it all leads to more stretching per shot thus shorter case life and fewer shots until case separation compared to a case that has a more positive headspace control design and is loaded at lower pressure which will stretch at a lesser rate per reload/shot.
Wow- you really know about cases -lol
 

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