Best lead expanding mushroom bullet for Buffalo?

[FlyGuy]

Swift A-Frame, TBBC, Northfork, Spoor Bullet Company, Rhino Solid Shamk.
They’ll all do the job if you do yours

 

[Razorback]

The DGX bonded bullet attempts to address the issue and it seems to have done that. However it was only after a butt load of field failures were reported. Furthermore, my understanding is Mr. Hornady made some statement to the effect of the original DGX didn't need improvement, they only made the change to pacify us hunters. That comes across quite arrogant to me and I'm guessing many others.

I'll stick with North Forks primarily and occasionally A-Frames.

Agree. The fact that they ever released that inferior of a bullet for DG is enough to keep me from ever using them. Too many good bullets to ever mess with a hornady.

 

[deewayne2003]

I should have finished that sentence ‘with my rifle’. There is no guarantee the POI will be the same in another rifle.

You’re handloads or Norma PH factory?

I load my own ammo so if you have load data I’m all ears.

I have some H4350 350gr RNSN HD test loads ready for when the rifle comes back from smith.

 

[Rick HOlbert]

The North Fork PP (I think it's actually Percussion Point) would probably be fine too on a buffalo. That said, the PP is intended for more rapid expansion, for primary use in the big cats. The SS version of the bullet for its less rapid expansion would be a better choice for buffalo.

I stand corrected sir. The North Fork bullet I wanted to suggest is in fact the SS bullet, not the Percussion Point. You are very correct in that the North Fork PP does expand much faster than the SS and North Fork recommends the PP for use on Lion and Leopard.

 

[WAB]

You’re handloads or Norma PH factory?

I load my own ammo so if you have load data I’m all ears.

I have some H4350 350gr RNSN HD test loads ready for when the rifle comes back from smith.

My hand loads, both at 2,300 fps. Happy to share them if you PM me.

 

[WAB]

The DGX bonded bullet attempts to address the issue and it seems to have done that. However it was only after a butt load of field failures were reported. Furthermore, my understanding is Mr. Hornady made some statement to the effect of the original DGX didn't need improvement, they only made the change to pacify us hunters. That comes across quite arrogant to me and I'm guessing many others.

I'll stick with North Forks primarily and occasionally A-Frames.

My feelings exactly. I took the recovered ‘bullets’ from a dust up in Mozambique to their booth at SCI. They told me that they were confidentially working on a bonded version to correct the issue. At the same time the public facing statements were that there was no problem. Those bullets could have gotten me killed. That finished me with Hornady.

 

[DLSJR]

@dogcat1 summed it up perfectly when he said ‘Don’t overthink it’.

The heavy majority of all Cape Buffalo are shot with just four different brands of bullets, three of which contain lead. If you choose from Swift A Frame, Trophy Bonded Bearclaw, Northfork Semi-Spitzer or Barnes TSX you cannot go wrong.

Some also like Woodleigh, Nosler, Rhino, but honestly if you just choose from the Swift A Frame, Bearclaw or Northfork SS you cannot make a bad choice. I personally prefer .416 400 grain Bearclaws; a friend who has shot about 60 buffalo has killed nearly every one with a .416 400 grain A Frame and another friend has shot nearly 400 buffalo, of which over 80% have been with .375 300 grain Monometal copper bullets, most of which he makes himself on a CNC lathe. They all work great. Don’t overthink it.

 

[michael458]

Are the Raptors in their present configuration something you would advise trying, or do you think they need more development before hand loaders should try them in the field?

Raptors are very simply the most devastating, tissue destroying, decisive bullet ever devised. I have taken 80+ buffalo, Aussie/Cape, with various Raptors in 9.3 (caliber deficient), 416, 458, .474, and .500 with extreme results. Far more devastation, tissue destruction, blood loss, and shock effect than any conventional bullet I ever used. Deeper penetration than any conventional. If you have never witnessed it yourself, you cannot understand just how effective these are. In addition to the buffalo I have taken, I have seen and witnessed at least double that. I have taken 150+ plains game with Raptors from impala to eland and it is the same story................... We have witnessed many hunters using Raptors for the first time, and nearly to a man the common statement made is "I have never seen anything like that"....... we used to laugh at that, because our first time, we uttered the same words.

All the larger caliber Raptors were tested here, any tweaks required in any caliber were done many years ago. There is no more research to be done with Raptors.

Yes, they will penetrate further than any conventional premium. Yes they will exit buffalo on a regular basis. If you cannot wait on your shot, if you do not have the patience to make sure your shot is clear, then use something else if you do not have enough discipline to clear your shot. Out of all the exits I experienced and witnessed, none of us ever had a problem with exits. This "you can't use that bullet, or this bullet because it might exit and wound another is pure BS and internet arm chair hunters, and PHs scared to death of NOVICE Client Hunters, which is not all together wrong" I do however have one HERO, that killed two buffalo with ONE SHOT with 416 Raptor......... But he is the only Hero I know of! I like two holes, that is a bonus! I am disappointed if I don't get an exit, unless of course it is end to end. I want that exit.

No expanding bullet and most poor ass designed solids do not like brush, sticks, or trees. Raptors do not like brush, sticks, or trees. Do not shoot brush, sticks or trees with Raptors and expect stellar results. For that matter most other bullets as well.

Unless asked, I did my best not to hi jack the thread........ But if asked, it is rude not to answer, apologies..................

 

[Carnivore hunter]

Raptors are very simply the most devastating, tissue destroying, decisive bullet ever devised. I have taken 80+ buffalo, Aussie/Cape, with various Raptors in 9.3 (caliber deficient), 416, 458, .474, and .500 with extreme results. Far more devastation, tissue destruction, blood loss, and shock effect than any conventional bullet I ever used. Deeper penetration than any conventional. If you have never witnessed it yourself, you cannot understand just how effective these are. In addition to the buffalo I have taken, I have seen and witnessed at least double that. I have taken 150+ plains game with Raptors from impala to eland and it is the same story................... We have witnessed many hunters using Raptors for the first time, and nearly to a man the common statement made is "I have never seen anything like that"....... we used to laugh at that, because our first time, we uttered the same words.

All the larger caliber Raptors were tested here, any tweaks required in any caliber were done many years ago. There is no more research to be done with Raptors.

Yes, they will penetrate further than any conventional premium. Yes they will exit buffalo on a regular basis. If you cannot wait on your shot, if you do not have the patience to make sure your shot is clear, then use something else if you do not have enough discipline to clear your shot. Out of all the exits I experienced and witnessed, none of us ever had a problem with exits. This "you can't use that bullet, or this bullet because it might exit and wound another is pure BS and internet arm chair hunters, and PHs scared to death of NOVICE Client Hunters, which is not all together wrong" I do however have one HERO, that killed two buffalo with ONE SHOT with 416 Raptor......... But he is the only Hero I know of! I like two holes, that is a bonus! I am disappointed if I don't get an exit, unless of course it is end to end. I want that exit.

No expanding bullet and most poor ass designed solids do not like brush, sticks, or trees. Raptors do not like brush, sticks, or trees. Do not shoot brush, sticks or trees with Raptors and expect stellar results. For that matter most other bullets as well.

Unless asked, I did my best not to hi jack the thread........ But if asked, it is rude not to answer, apologies..................

Do you notice a difference in the reaction of the Cape Buffalo and Aussie/cape when hit with the 9.3 vs 416 vs 458, vs 474, vs 500 ? Also, when it comes to how long the animal expires ?

 

[michael458]

Do you notice a difference in the reaction of the Cape Buffalo and Aussie/cape when hit with the 9.3 vs 416 vs 458, vs 474, vs 500 ? Also, when it comes to how long the animal expires ?

Oh yes, like flipping light switches on..... every step up, the light gets brighter.

I went on a shooting spree in South Africa with the 9.3 B&M, shooting 210 ESP Raptors at 2900 fps. I developed the 9.3 as a medium for the lineup, to do medium things like most common plains game, and most North American game. I tested probably 25 or so animals in short order from impala to zebra, several of each. Impala/hartebeast type all DRT. Wildebeest/Oryx 50% DRT some ran 20-30 yards. Zebra all ran, but soon hit the ground. Tremendous damage, blood loss. Not bad. Later we were headed to Australia to shoot buffalo. I decided to take the 9.3 along to test. Using 255 Safari Raptors and even the 210 ESPs on buffalo, it was rather dismal. What was great on plains game was worthless on buffalo, even with these devastating bullets. When it comes to buffalo, you cannot make a Rat caliber a buffalo caliber even with the best of bullet tech............. After filling buffalo full of 9.3 caliber holes, most all exits even, serious damage reports, buffalo just didn't pay much attention to those Rat caliber bullets passing through. After 8-10 buffalo I put it away, brought out the then new 475 B&M shooting 420 Raptors at 2250 fps or so, along with some new North Forks and business picked up substantially. Buffalo started paying attention to taking these hits, many down on the spot, some went 5-10 yards and down. In addition I had one Son shooting a 50 Super Short, .500 caliber, another Son shooting a 475 Super Short and my best pal shooting 500 NE all with Raptors. The boys also using some new North Forks we developed, the Expanding CPS. Hammers, all of these buffalo hammers. I watched many buffalo taken with the 500 NE, 50 SS and 475 SS all DRT the spot. My Pal Sam shot piles of big bulls with the then new 475 Raptor in his 500 NE, they would stand, quiver, sometimes try to turn around, and fall over on the spot....... So much damage they could not run, stand and quiver.

Big step up from Rat Calibers to .416. The next year I would shoot a 416 B&M and all the Raptors avalable, even the 225 Raptors. I never recovred any, most exited, some frontals stayed in, but we were on a serious shooting mission, sometimes no time to dig. the 416 did ok, absolutely better than Rat calibers, but not extremely impressive.

From .416 to .458 MAGIC BEGINS................ I have shot a lot of buffalo with .458 in various cartridges....... most of the Raptors have been the 420 Raptor and it is wicked. I did test one of the 250 Socom Raptors on a cow buffalo once, and double lung and recovered far side. It was wicked too. But even in Conventional expanding, 458 is serious business and buffalo pay attention.

I did not see any jump in performance or reaction from .458 to .474 caliber. There is a jump in animal reaction, similar to the 416 to 458....... from .458 to .500/.510. A 500 caliber 450 gr Raptor at 2400 fps is very very serious buffalo medicine. Most stand and quiver, some can run short, 10-15 yards, I accidently gut shot a cape one day, figured we were in a hell of a bad way. We started tracking, and in 75 yards caught up to a very very sick bull. He did not run, I actually out paced him on his left side, no more than 10 yards, soon as I got in front of him, he looked, and tried to run away, I took him out at that point. Gut shoot a big bull with a conventional bullet and see how many days it takes to chase him........ 500 caliber 450 Raptor at 2400 fps is less than 75 yards.

Yes, almost every step up in caliber, you see increased performance, animal reactions and terminals. Not so with .458--.474, just not enough jump in caliber.

 

[russ473]

A guy by the name of Hansie Minnar took over ken stewart bullets, 0826275011, and still making to the same standerd, it is better to message or whatsapp him as he has bad signal

 

[Carnivore hunter]

Oh yes, like flipping light switches on..... every step up, the light gets brighter.

I went on a shooting spree in South Africa with the 9.3 B&M, shooting 210 ESP Raptors at 2900 fps. I developed the 9.3 as a medium for the lineup, to do medium things like most common plains game, and most North American game. I tested probably 25 or so animals in short order from impala to zebra, several of each. Impala/hartebeast type all DRT. Wildebeest/Oryx 50% DRT some ran 20-30 yards. Zebra all ran, but soon hit the ground. Tremendous damage, blood loss. Not bad. Later we were headed to Australia to shoot buffalo. I decided to take the 9.3 along to test. Using 255 Safari Raptors and even the 210 ESPs on buffalo, it was rather dismal. What was great on plains game was worthless on buffalo, even with these devastating bullets. When it comes to buffalo, you cannot make a Rat caliber a buffalo caliber even with the best of bullet tech............. After filling buffalo full of 9.3 caliber holes, most all exits even, serious damage reports, buffalo just didn't pay much attention to those Rat caliber bullets passing through. After 8-10 buffalo I put it away, brought out the then new 475 B&M shooting 420 Raptors at 2250 fps or so, along with some new North Forks and business picked up substantially. Buffalo started paying attention to taking these hits, many down on the spot, some went 5-10 yards and down. In addition I had one Son shooting a 50 Super Short, .500 caliber, another Son shooting a 475 Super Short and my best pal shooting 500 NE all with Raptors. The boys also using some new North Forks we developed, the Expanding CPS. Hammers, all of these buffalo hammers. I watched many buffalo taken with the 500 NE, 50 SS and 475 SS all DRT the spot. My Pal Sam shot piles of big bulls with the then new 475 Raptor in his 500 NE, they would stand, quiver, sometimes try to turn around, and fall over on the spot....... So much damage they could not run, stand and quiver.

Big step up from Rat Calibers to .416. The next year I would shoot a 416 B&M and all the Raptors avalable, even the 225 Raptors. I never recovred any, most exited, some frontals stayed in, but we were on a serious shooting mission, sometimes no time to dig. the 416 did ok, absolutely better than Rat calibers, but not extremely impressive.

From .416 to .458 MAGIC BEGINS................ I have shot a lot of buffalo with .458 in various cartridges....... most of the Raptors have been the 420 Raptor and it is wicked. I did test one of the 250 Socom Raptors on a cow buffalo once, and double lung and recovered far side. It was wicked too. But even in Conventional expanding, 458 is serious business and buffalo pay attention.

I did not see any jump in performance or reaction from .458 to .474 caliber. There is a jump in animal reaction, similar to the 416 to 458....... from .458 to .500/.510. A 500 caliber 450 gr Raptor at 2400 fps is very very serious buffalo medicine. Most stand and quiver, some can run short, 10-15 yards, I accidently gut shot a cape one day, figured we were in a hell of a bad way. We started tracking, and in 75 yards caught up to a very very sick bull. He did not run, I actually out paced him on his left side, no more than 10 yards, soon as I got in front of him, he looked, and tried to run away, I took him out at that point. Gut shoot a big bull with a conventional bullet and see how many days it takes to chase him........ 500 caliber 450 Raptor at 2400 fps is less than 75 yards.

Yes, almost every step up in caliber, you see increased performance, animal reactions and terminals. Not so with .458--.474, just not enough jump in caliber.

Michael, excellent post. Very informative...

Out of the .500/.510. calibers, any personal favorites? I'm wanting to put together a dangerous game stopping rifle with a short barrel: 20" to 22" inch barrel. Any advice and recommendations?

 

[michael458]

Out of the .500/.510. calibers, any personal favorites?

Two actually. Winchester M70s, Control Feed, RUM actions. 500 MDM 2.8 inch RUM case, .500 caliber standard 20 inch barrels, two of mine are 19 inches. Capable of 500 gr CEB Solids at moderate load 2430 fps at 55700 PSI and 450 CEB Raptors 2515 fps at 52000 PSI. Both moderate loads, not close to Max. 8.25--8.5 lbs depending on stock.

Personal rifle 500 B&M, 2.5 inch RUM case, Winchester M70 Control feed RUM action, 18 inch barrel, Capable of 450 CEB Solids at 2440 fps 58400 PSI and matching 410 Raptors at 2527 fps at 55000 PSI. 8 lbs.

Both of these are buffalo hammers, but not obtainable unfortunately. SSK built these before JD sold to Lehigh, which stopped making any custom rifles, and then Lehigh sold SSK once again..........I also limited the number available, these were only built for experienced shooters and experienced hand loaders. Two rifles are used by Professional Hunters.

Any other capable .510s are larger rifles to the best of my knowledge.

Once again, way off base and off thread......... sorry........

 

[DLSJR]

Raptors are very simply the most devastating, tissue destroying, decisive bullet ever devised. I have taken 80+ buffalo, Aussie/Cape, with various Raptors in 9.3 (caliber deficient), 416, 458, .474, and .500 with extreme results. Far more devastation, tissue destruction, blood loss, and shock effect than any conventional bullet I ever used. Deeper penetration than any conventional. If you have never witnessed it yourself, you cannot understand just how effective these are. In addition to the buffalo I have taken, I have seen and witnessed at least double that. I have taken 150+ plains game with Raptors from impala to eland and it is the same story................... We have witnessed many hunters using Raptors for the first time, and nearly to a man the common statement made is "I have never seen anything like that"....... we used to laugh at that, because our first time, we uttered the same words.

All the larger caliber Raptors were tested here, any tweaks required in any caliber were done many years ago. There is no more research to be done with Raptors.

Yes, they will penetrate further than any conventional premium. Yes they will exit buffalo on a regular basis. If you cannot wait on your shot, if you do not have the patience to make sure your shot is clear, then use something else if you do not have enough discipline to clear your shot. Out of all the exits I experienced and witnessed, none of us ever had a problem with exits. This "you can't use that bullet, or this bullet because it might exit and wound another is pure BS and internet arm chair hunters, and PHs scared to death of NOVICE Client Hunters, which is not all together wrong" I do however have one HERO, that killed two buffalo with ONE SHOT with 416 Raptor......... But he is the only Hero I know of! I like two holes, that is a bonus! I am disappointed if I don't get an exit, unless of course it is end to end. I want that exit.

No expanding bullet and most poor ass designed solids do not like brush, sticks, or trees. Raptors do not like brush, sticks, or trees. Do not shoot brush, sticks or trees with Raptors and expect stellar results. For that matter most other bullets as well.

Unless asked, I did my best not to hi jack the thread........ But if asked, it is rude not to answer, apologies..................

And I just realized that I forgot Cutting Edge Raptors! Another excellent bullet choice.